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Old Aug 16, 2010, 12:53 AM
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Minimum IPW
Hi DOodz!

Anyone know what an injector will physically respond to in terms of minimum IPW?

The EvoX ECU has a lower bound of 1.28ms, which I am thinking about modifying... However I am assuming that there must be some physical limit where the injector just wont do anything (like 0.5ms)

Anyone know?

ID2000's if anyone is interested

EDIT:

96530006:
Code:
<table name="Minimum IPW #1 SHLL2->NOP (0x4908 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="27fb6" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW #2 SHLL2->NOP (0x4908 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="27fb8" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW #3 SHLL->NOP (0x4900 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="27fba" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>

<scaling name="IPW16:SHLL0" units="ms" toexpr="x*8/1000" frexpr="x*1000/8" format="%.3f" min="0" max="65" inc="0.008" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW SHLL0" category="Misc" address="1502" type="1D" scaling="IPW16:SHLL0"/>
88590015:
Code:
<table name="Minimum IPW #1 SHLL2->NOP (0x4908 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="2af7a" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW #2 SHLL2->NOP (0x4908 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="2af7c" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW #3 SHLL->NOP (0x4900 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="2af7e" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>

<scaling name="IPW16:SHLL0" units="ms" toexpr="x*8/1000" frexpr="x*1000/8" format="%.3f" min="0" max="65" inc="0.008" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW SHLL0" category="Misc" address="1102" type="1D" scaling="IPW16:SHLL0"/>
90550001:
Code:
<table name="Minimum IPW #1 SHLL8->NOP (0x4818 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="227b8" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW #2 SHLR2->NOP (0x4809 -> 0x0009)" category="Misc" address="227ba" type="1D" scaling="Hex16"/>

<scaling name="IPW16:SHLL0" units="ms" toexpr="x*4/1000" frexpr="x*1000/4" format="%.3f" min="0" max="65" inc="0.004" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW SHLL0" category="Misc" address="1502" type="1D" scaling="IPW16:SHLL0"/>
After doing the code changes (top 3) you will then need to use the "new" Minimum IPW SHLL0 table to set your Minimum IPW - you will need to replace what the stock value is with ~1.1 or whatever you want. Feel free to use +/- keys to increment/decrement


Cheers
D.
Last edited by tephra; Apr 12, 2011 at 07:37 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:51 AM
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Have you read the tech info on Injector Dynamics website? It is quite interesting.

Injectors can open and flow a smaller amount of fuel than their latency period though, so 1.2ms total pulse width with 1.0ms latency would be expected to give 0.2 ms pulse of fuel.

Generally, minimum injector times can be to stop wayward MAFs stalling the engine by going too lean, and can just be another term for latency. Reported pulse widths can include or exclude latency.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:53 AM
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really...

have u got a link? i couldn't find it...
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:56 AM
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They were under technical articles, but now there is a (not unwelcome but not as useful) picture of a lady in a bikini. Contact Tony and ask him for info (he is their major dealer/partner or part of ID/they are part of him or something, we get ours from him anyway) http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/en/contact-us.html

Graphs galore, took me a Saturday morning to wade through several months ago and very interesting.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:58 AM
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yeah i have sent ID an email...

but that is correct what you said.

if the latency required is 0.5ms (at whatever psi+voltage) and you send an IPW of 1.5ms, then you will get 1ms of flow...

delay'd open, instant close i guess...
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:27 AM
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Here's a good thread by mrfred on injector latencies that he measured.

The latency is really 'time to open' - 'time to close'.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:31 AM
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merci
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 10:56 AM
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Please figure out how to modify the 1.28ms min. I run into this problem on the 8s,9s, and Xs with the ID2000s and FIC 2150s on stock ECU cars. I can tune them fine with an AEM EMS and get the idle A/Fs to lean out.

Another thread about it https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...w-minimum.html
Last edited by DB Performance; Aug 16, 2010 at 10:59 AM.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 05:40 PM
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Well I believe I have found the lower bound limiter on CZ4A.

I havn't tested it properly, mainly because my stock injectors require 1.98ms to keep idle hehe

What ROMID are you looking at I will see if I can find it for you rom
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:04 PM
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9653006 rom ID and I can test it ASAP. Yes I have ID2000's.
Last edited by old4g63; Aug 16, 2010 at 06:08 PM.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:12 PM
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Code:
<scaling name="IPW16" units="ms" toexpr="x*32*8/1000" frexpr="x*1000/8/32" format="%.3f" min="0" max="65" inc="1" storagetype="uint16" endian="big"/>
<table name="Minimum IPW" category="Misc" address="1502" type="1D" scaling="IPW16"/>
U got 30 seconds to test :P
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:19 PM
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You are making me look like an a-hole. I can't test till friday (asap is friday). I thought it would take you a couple days to find it!
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jcsbanks
Have you read the tech info on Injector Dynamics website? It is quite interesting.

Injectors can open and flow a smaller amount of fuel than their latency period though, so 1.2ms total pulse width with 1.0ms latency would be expected to give 0.2 ms pulse of fuel.

Generally, minimum injector times can be to stop wayward MAFs stalling the engine by going too lean, and can just be another term for latency. Reported pulse widths can include or exclude latency.
Qutoed for trooth. The stock MAF is most likely why the IPW minimum is in the code. Much like the IPW max cap that was in the earlier (usdm 1g DSM) to prevent over fueling during maf over run. For SD cars or cars with proper injectors these values need changed.
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:42 PM
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I run Tephra v7 on all the cars I do MAF and SD. And Tephra on the Evo Xs. I don't have any in the shop right now though with huge injectors to test with.

Originally Posted by tephra
Well I believe I have found the lower bound limiter on CZ4A.

I havn't tested it properly, mainly because my stock injectors require 1.98ms to keep idle hehe

What ROMID are you looking at I will see if I can find it for you rom
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Old Aug 16, 2010, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jcsbanks
Generally, minimum injector times can be to stop wayward MAFs stalling the engine by going too lean, and can just be another term for latency. Reported pulse widths can include or exclude latency.


Understand - but larger injectors requires less than 1.28ms to maintain stoich @ idle.

ID says that under 1ms there are no guarantees that the injector will work properly - so I would say that that 1ms is about as low as you would want to go!

MUT29+2A is including latency - at least on CZ4A, I suspect its the same on CT9A
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