My experiences 96530706 vs. 94170715
Mar 26, 2011, 09:38 AM
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My experiences 96530706 vs. 94170715
I have run both TephraMod v7 bins now, and I must say, 96530706 has run much smoother, and solved a lot of problems that came with 9417.
Idle - cold start
On 9417, cold start idle suffered. It would often go up to 2200 rpm, and stay there until warmed up. It was able to be fixed by tweaking the idle tables, but this was a lot of trial and error, and still never fixed it 100%.
Upon installing 9653, the idle was perfect from start up to fully warmed up. I did not have to mess with any tables at all, and even with a cold start of 23 degrees out (yes, upstate NY sucks), it started and idled perfectly. This was a huge improvement.
Shifting studder
On 9417, there were some oddities with shifting and low-rpm acceleration when the car was not fully warmed up. It would almost act as a rpm cut at times, where a normal shift would make the car violently buck, and throw me into my seat belt. Similar to this, when I would tip in gas when cold, the car would rev much slower than normal, and a similar studder would sometimes occur. This was avoidable by shifting very slowly, and slipping the clutch more, but it is unfortunate to have to do this.
After installing 9653, these problems never happened again. Idle revs under low load come smoother again, and not a single shifting studder occurred.
Other
I haven't found any other benefits / downsides to switching bins yet. Both have no problem in turning off readiness monitors and CEL after removing emissions equipment, and both seem to work great with logging software, EcuFlash, and anything else I need to do. They both seem to have the same TephraMod v7 features, but 9653 seems to do it just a little bit better
--mark
Idle - cold start
On 9417, cold start idle suffered. It would often go up to 2200 rpm, and stay there until warmed up. It was able to be fixed by tweaking the idle tables, but this was a lot of trial and error, and still never fixed it 100%.
Upon installing 9653, the idle was perfect from start up to fully warmed up. I did not have to mess with any tables at all, and even with a cold start of 23 degrees out (yes, upstate NY sucks), it started and idled perfectly. This was a huge improvement.
Shifting studder
On 9417, there were some oddities with shifting and low-rpm acceleration when the car was not fully warmed up. It would almost act as a rpm cut at times, where a normal shift would make the car violently buck, and throw me into my seat belt. Similar to this, when I would tip in gas when cold, the car would rev much slower than normal, and a similar studder would sometimes occur. This was avoidable by shifting very slowly, and slipping the clutch more, but it is unfortunate to have to do this.
After installing 9653, these problems never happened again. Idle revs under low load come smoother again, and not a single shifting studder occurred.
Other
I haven't found any other benefits / downsides to switching bins yet. Both have no problem in turning off readiness monitors and CEL after removing emissions equipment, and both seem to work great with logging software, EcuFlash, and anything else I need to do. They both seem to have the same TephraMod v7 features, but 9653 seems to do it just a little bit better
--mark
Mar 26, 2011, 09:44 AM
#2
I have run both TephraMod v7 bins now, and I must say, 96530706 has run much smoother, and solved a lot of problems that came with 9417.
Idle - cold start
On 9417, cold start idle suffered. It would often go up to 2200 rpm, and stay there until warmed up. It was able to be fixed by tweaking the idle tables, but this was a lot of trial and error, and still never fixed it 100%.
Upon installing 9653, the idle was perfect from start up to fully warmed up. I did not have to mess with any tables at all, and even with a cold start of 23 degrees out (yes, upstate NY sucks), it started and idled perfectly. This was a huge improvement.
Shifting studder
On 9417, there were some oddities with shifting and low-rpm acceleration when the car was not fully warmed up. It would almost act as a rpm cut at times, where a normal shift would make the car violently buck, and throw me into my seat belt. Similar to this, when I would tip in gas when cold, the car would rev much slower than normal, and a similar studder would sometimes occur. This was avoidable by shifting very slowly, and slipping the clutch more, but it is unfortunate to have to do this.
After installing 9653, these problems never happened again. Idle revs under low load come smoother again, and not a single shifting studder occurred.
Other
I haven't found any other benefits / downsides to switching bins yet. Both have no problem in turning off readiness monitors and CEL after removing emissions equipment, and both seem to work great with logging software, EcuFlash, and anything else I need to do. They both seem to have the same TephraMod v7 features, but 9653 seems to do it just a little bit better
--mark
Idle - cold start
On 9417, cold start idle suffered. It would often go up to 2200 rpm, and stay there until warmed up. It was able to be fixed by tweaking the idle tables, but this was a lot of trial and error, and still never fixed it 100%.
Upon installing 9653, the idle was perfect from start up to fully warmed up. I did not have to mess with any tables at all, and even with a cold start of 23 degrees out (yes, upstate NY sucks), it started and idled perfectly. This was a huge improvement.
Shifting studder
On 9417, there were some oddities with shifting and low-rpm acceleration when the car was not fully warmed up. It would almost act as a rpm cut at times, where a normal shift would make the car violently buck, and throw me into my seat belt. Similar to this, when I would tip in gas when cold, the car would rev much slower than normal, and a similar studder would sometimes occur. This was avoidable by shifting very slowly, and slipping the clutch more, but it is unfortunate to have to do this.
After installing 9653, these problems never happened again. Idle revs under low load come smoother again, and not a single shifting studder occurred.
Other
I haven't found any other benefits / downsides to switching bins yet. Both have no problem in turning off readiness monitors and CEL after removing emissions equipment, and both seem to work great with logging software, EcuFlash, and anything else I need to do. They both seem to have the same TephraMod v7 features, but 9653 seems to do it just a little bit better
--mark
Mar 26, 2011, 09:50 AM
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Mar 30, 2011, 06:01 PM
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For what its worth I have also done a 9653 and a 9417 s.d. rom.
-Starting/Cold starting
9653- I was able to get it to start perfect every time all the time after a lot of tweaking
9417- Cold starts and idles with no real hassel but is rich and sputters a good bit for about 1-15 second upon cold starts. Still have yet to get the starting perfect. It runs really rich on warm start up at time and not at others. Almost a time related thing rather then engine or ambient temps. I have played with everything I could find to try and fix this to no avail.
-Running issues
9653- ran great and very smooth. No real issues with afr swings or anything.
9417- Fuel trims rondomy will change from perfect to -13% from day to day. Seems to run lean under load when not fully warmed up.
-Misc. issues
9653- intercooler sprayer does not work with this rom id. in a usdm car, this is a big problem for me as I use the i.c. sprayer to trigger my meth injection.
-Also had a odd throttle/idle hang in parking lots that irretated me something feirce. It would hold at about 2k-2200 when inching through parking lots or pulling into a parking spot at times.
-Aslo randomly at ilde the car would sit at 11.5s
-Shift throttle hang
9417- alternate maps dont want to come on some times and I will have to do a partial pull for them to come on, or atleast for my i.c. sprayer light to blink to let me know that I am on my alternate maps.
-Car will stall very rarely on a long long de-cel with no throttle then throwing in the clutch.
-Runs leaner then the 9653 for the same fuel values.
In the end I am currently running the 9417 rom due to the map switching works and i.c. sprayer works. If the i.c. sprayer swtich worked correctly and the i.c. sprayer worked correctly on the 9653 rom with no wiring mods I would be running that rom. The car had a better "feel" to it on the 9653.
-Starting/Cold starting
9653- I was able to get it to start perfect every time all the time after a lot of tweaking
9417- Cold starts and idles with no real hassel but is rich and sputters a good bit for about 1-15 second upon cold starts. Still have yet to get the starting perfect. It runs really rich on warm start up at time and not at others. Almost a time related thing rather then engine or ambient temps. I have played with everything I could find to try and fix this to no avail.
-Running issues
9653- ran great and very smooth. No real issues with afr swings or anything.
9417- Fuel trims rondomy will change from perfect to -13% from day to day. Seems to run lean under load when not fully warmed up.
-Misc. issues
9653- intercooler sprayer does not work with this rom id. in a usdm car, this is a big problem for me as I use the i.c. sprayer to trigger my meth injection.
-Also had a odd throttle/idle hang in parking lots that irretated me something feirce. It would hold at about 2k-2200 when inching through parking lots or pulling into a parking spot at times.
-Aslo randomly at ilde the car would sit at 11.5s
-Shift throttle hang
9417- alternate maps dont want to come on some times and I will have to do a partial pull for them to come on, or atleast for my i.c. sprayer light to blink to let me know that I am on my alternate maps.
-Car will stall very rarely on a long long de-cel with no throttle then throwing in the clutch.
-Runs leaner then the 9653 for the same fuel values.
In the end I am currently running the 9417 rom due to the map switching works and i.c. sprayer works. If the i.c. sprayer swtich worked correctly and the i.c. sprayer worked correctly on the 9653 rom with no wiring mods I would be running that rom. The car had a better "feel" to it on the 9653.
Mar 30, 2011, 06:08 PM
#6
just so you guys know and realize.. you can make both roms behave perfect given the tweaking and time and research you do.. my 9417 has no issues at all. to the OP: the reason 9653 feels better is because it has different ISCV settings and so happens your BISS / IAC/ISCV are more on target with the 9653 rom, as it uses different target values. its a matter of getting proper calibration with the idle air controller valving and the idle set screw position.. once everythings set in harmony the car will respond perfect on 9417.. 9417 also has some things that need altered so cold taking off doesnt try to run negative timing which causes the crappy cold driving at first until coolant temp warms up to operating temp.
Mar 30, 2011, 11:50 PM
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I found that the mid year change in 2004 causes the necessity for 9653 over 9417. Early model 04s and all 03s will run 9417 wonderfully as it most closely matches the stock ROM. Mid 04 and all 05s seem to work best with 9653.
Regardless of which ROM you choose to use, you will have to tweek and adjust it to make it run the way you want it too. I've ran both in my 03. The 9653 took me a very long time to get running well. 9417 was a plug and play in my case.
We did a lot of research, testing, tuning, tweeking and so forth to get a "universal" rom for non MIVEC engines. The 9653 was the answer. But, due to popular demand in the US market the desire for 9417 became appearant. Thus we built it.
To compare the 2 roms comes down to your ability and time to make all of the necessary adjustments to make the rom(s) run well. Both are fantastic and much love goes out to the Gurus for developing it. (pats self on the back because I helped a bit).
Paul
Regardless of which ROM you choose to use, you will have to tweek and adjust it to make it run the way you want it too. I've ran both in my 03. The 9653 took me a very long time to get running well. 9417 was a plug and play in my case.
We did a lot of research, testing, tuning, tweeking and so forth to get a "universal" rom for non MIVEC engines. The 9653 was the answer. But, due to popular demand in the US market the desire for 9417 became appearant. Thus we built it.
To compare the 2 roms comes down to your ability and time to make all of the necessary adjustments to make the rom(s) run well. Both are fantastic and much love goes out to the Gurus for developing it. (pats self on the back because I helped a bit).
Paul
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Mar 31, 2011, 10:52 PM
#10
I had the same issues as the op with 9417 but the bucking doesn't seem as bad. The only difference was I had a lean idle of 15.5 afr. After reading this I switched to 9653 and all the problems went away, for a while. I still have a lean idle but the cold start is fine now. It seemed like when i turned the p0300 test off all the problems except for cold idle came back.
Apr 13, 2011, 01:43 PM
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On my 05, my experience was the opposite. I started with 96530706. Had high cold idle and lots of CELs. I was able to disable all the CELs but I could never fix the high cold idle (2000+ rpm). I switched to 94170715. The high cold idle went away. No need to fix emissions related CELs. However, both ROMs have stalling issues when I clutch in after giving a little gas (occurs when parking or going up a driveway). I'm still trying to find a solution to the stalling.
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