Timing randomization from 2k to 3.5k rpm
May 19, 2013, 12:05 PM
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Timing randomization from 2k to 3.5k rpm
Car is an EDM 2006/7 Evo IX with minimal mods:
- FIC 1100CC High-z (going E85 later)
- Walbro 255, modded
- 3" DP and due to strict legal requirements has standard cat and catback
Original ROM: 88840017
Current ROM: Tephra v7 88580714
I'm having a strange timing issue where my timing is pulled seemingly randomly outside of the timing map. It starts at 2000rpm and ends at exactly 3500rpm. My original EDM ROM is 88840017 and it is equipped with with ALS (software only, the SAS squiggly metal line is missing). The ALS on the old ROM can be accessed with a custom XML, it wasn't visible when initially reading it with Ecuflash. The currently installed ROM is Tephra v7 88580714 with custom maps. Is it possible that the ghost of ALS is somehow active from the old ROM? Below is the log of the problem. Any advice?
Right before and right after this 2000-3500rpm block the timing goes absolutely linear without any jumping around.
Image of the ALS from 88840017 https://i.imgur.com/OgAeEh0.jpg . This does show thought that the activation RPM of ALS is 4k and not 2k.
- FIC 1100CC High-z (going E85 later)
- Walbro 255, modded
- 3" DP and due to strict legal requirements has standard cat and catback
Original ROM: 88840017
Current ROM: Tephra v7 88580714
I'm having a strange timing issue where my timing is pulled seemingly randomly outside of the timing map. It starts at 2000rpm and ends at exactly 3500rpm. My original EDM ROM is 88840017 and it is equipped with with ALS (software only, the SAS squiggly metal line is missing). The ALS on the old ROM can be accessed with a custom XML, it wasn't visible when initially reading it with Ecuflash. The currently installed ROM is Tephra v7 88580714 with custom maps. Is it possible that the ghost of ALS is somehow active from the old ROM? Below is the log of the problem. Any advice?
Right before and right after this 2000-3500rpm block the timing goes absolutely linear without any jumping around.
Image of the ALS from 88840017 https://i.imgur.com/OgAeEh0.jpg . This does show thought that the activation RPM of ALS is 4k and not 2k.
Code:
TPS RPM Tim Load KnockV KS AFR 100 2031.25 9 106.6 0.2535 0 12.5538 100 2031.25 8 107.9 0.429 0 12.5538 100 2031.25 7 110.5 0.4875 0 12.5538 100 2062.5 5 110.5 0.351 0 12.348 100 2062.5 5 111.8 0.507 0 12.348 100 2062.5 6 113.1 0.351 0 12.348 100 2093.75 4 114.4 0.3705 0 12.348 100 2093.75 3 115.7 0.4485 0 12.348 100 2125 3 117 0.4485 0 12.1716 100 2125 5 118.3 0.39 0 12.1716 100 2125 4 119.6 0.5265 0 12.1716 100 2156.25 5 120.9 0.5655 0 12.1716 100 2156.25 2 122.2 0.273 0 11.9805 100 2156.25 4 123.5 0.5655 0 11.9805 100 2187.5 2 124.8 0.429 0 11.9805 100 2187.5 1 127.4 0.351 0 11.9805 100 2218.75 1 128.7 0.429 0 11.9805 100 2218.75 1 130 0.507 0 11.7453 100 2218.75 3 131.3 0.351 0 11.7453 100 2250 0 132.6 0.39 0 11.7453 100 2250 3 135.2 0.468 0 11.7453 100 2281.25 0 136.5 0.3705 0 11.466 100 2281.25 2 137.8 0.4485 0 11.466 100 2312.5 -1 140.4 0.4095 0 11.466 100 2312.5 2 140.4 0.546 0 11.466 100 2312.5 2 143 0.429 0 11.2602 100 2375 -3 144.3 0.429 0 11.2602 100 2375 2 145.6 0.429 0 11.2602 100 2375 -1 146.9 0.546 0 11.2602 100 2375 2 148.2 0.4485 0 11.0691 100 2406.25 -1 149.5 0.4095 0 11.0691 100 2437.5 0 150.8 0.507 0 11.0691 100 2406.25 2 153.4 0.5655 0 11.0691 100 2437.5 0 154.7 0.7215 0 11.0691 100 2468.75 -1 158.6 0.351 0 10.878 100 2468.75 -1 159.9 0.8385 0 10.878 100 2500 -1 162.5 0.5265 0 10.878 100 2531.25 -3 165.1 0.663 0 10.878 100 2531.25 1 167.7 0.6825 0 10.8339 100 2562.5 -2 170.3 0.429 0 10.8339 100 2531.25 1 171.6 1.014 0 10.8339 100 2562.5 1 174.2 0.4095 0 10.8339 100 2593.75 -3 176.8 0.9165 0 10.6722 100 2625 -1 179.4 0.507 0 10.6722 100 2625 -2 182 0.585 0 10.6722 100 2625 1 185.9 0.6825 0 10.6722 100 2656.25 -2 188.5 0.9165 0 10.6722 100 2687.5 -2 191.1 0.702 0 10.5399 100 2687.5 -2 192.4 0.78 0 10.5399 100 2718.75 -3 197.6 0.6435 0 10.5399 100 2750 -1 201.5 0.7995 0 10.5399 100 2750 -1 202.8 0.6435 0 10.4958 100 2781.25 1 205.4 0.741 0 10.4958 100 2781.25 -1 209.3 0.6045 0 10.4958 100 2812.5 -1 213.2 1.3065 0 10.4958 100 2843.75 -2 217.1 1.56 0 10.4958 100 2843.75 -1 221 0.7605 0 10.4664 100 2906.25 -1 224.9 0.897 0 10.4664 100 2937.5 -1 227.5 0.9945 0 10.4664 100 2937.5 1 232.7 1.6185 0 10.4664 100 2937.5 1 235.3 1.0335 0 10.5105 100 2968.75 1 239.2 0.936 0 10.5105 100 3000 1 249.6 0.78 0 10.5105 100 3031.25 -2 253.5 0.936 0 10.5105 100 3062.5 -1 260 0.78 0 10.5987 100 3093.75 -1 265.2 0.897 0 10.5987 100 3125 1 273 0.4875 0 10.5987 100 3156.25 -3 278.2 0.702 0 10.5987 100 3156.25 1 286 1.014 0 10.5987 100 3187.5 -3 292.5 1.638 0 10.8045 100 3218.75 -3 296.4 1.1895 0 10.8045 100 3250 1 299 1.7745 1 10.8045 100 3281.25 -4 300.3 1.8525 1 10.8045 100 3343.75 -3 301.6 1.17 1 10.8045 100 3343.75 -2 301.6 1.8525 1 10.8633 100 3375 -2 302.9 0.741 1 10.8633 100 3406.25 1 302.9 1.1895 1 10.8633 100 3437.5 -2 301.6 1.521 1 10.8633 100 3500 1 301.6 0.975 0 10.9809 100 3531.25 1 302.9 1.6575 0 10.9809 100 3562.5 1 302.9 1.5795 0 10.9809 100 3562.5 1 304.2 1.3455 0 10.9809
Last edited by worksie; May 19, 2013 at 01:34 PM.
May 20, 2013, 02:04 AM
#3
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We are in the middle of tuning the car, but upon further inspection the car doesn't respect the fuel map either and richens the mixture even though there is 0 knock.
Due to the maps being worked on by a commercial tuner, I have blacked out the non-essential parts of the maps:
Ignition
Fuel
Due to the maps being worked on by a commercial tuner, I have blacked out the non-essential parts of the maps:
Ignition
Fuel
May 20, 2013, 11:03 AM
#5
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Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I disabled bit 10 as well as 9 (cat warmup ign retard). Running logs later tomorrow.
Last edited by worksie; May 20, 2013 at 02:40 PM.
May 20, 2013, 05:38 PM
#7
Evolved Member
as above, have you tried 88580014 v5 TephraMod, it seems to work well in my experience.
Note that if you do try v5, Spark maps #1 and #2 are both used, not just #2.
Note that if you do try v5, Spark maps #1 and #2 are both used, not just #2.
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May 21, 2013, 06:32 AM
#8
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I've been researching this only for few days, so I haven't had time to do drastic ROM changes. This is my first Evo and I was hoping that the tuning could be outsourced as a "fire and forget" solution. It seems that I was wrong 
Luckily I have been working in the field software and game development since '99, so this is somewhat easy for me to try to comprehend from scratch. The information has been shotgunned all over the internet and this forum, so I have hit Google pretty hard.
I was looking to change from my tuners 88580714 to a Recompile's 88590715 and bring over the values from my current changed tables. I need to do some more reading to see if this is a viable option for an EDM car with a base ROM of 88840017.
"Quote/211ratsbud: You can always use the 8859 rom with appropriate cel and sensor disabling."
^Do you want to go into details what changes are needed in what tables or is there a good source somewhere that I can read up?
[ot]
Is there a good explanation somewhere how the IX's EGR system works?
Luckily I have been working in the field software and game development since '99, so this is somewhat easy for me to try to comprehend from scratch. The information has been shotgunned all over the internet and this forum, so I have hit Google pretty hard.I was looking to change from my tuners 88580714 to a Recompile's 88590715 and bring over the values from my current changed tables. I need to do some more reading to see if this is a viable option for an EDM car with a base ROM of 88840017.
"Quote/211ratsbud: You can always use the 8859 rom with appropriate cel and sensor disabling."
^Do you want to go into details what changes are needed in what tables or is there a good source somewhere that I can read up?
[ot]
Is there a good explanation somewhere how the IX's EGR system works?
May 21, 2013, 06:55 AM
#9
Egr disable, map sensor stuff associated with egr, rear o2 , fuel temp, immobilizer
you can post the issues from that. 8859 has a lot of support.
Pretty much been covered one time or another around here.
Would you mind posting your 8858 rom up here with ignition and fuel blanked ?
Does your car have a map sensor and egr as well as a rear o2? I've ran my car on 884, 8857,8858, 8859
IX roms are much more interchangeable
you can post the issues from that. 8859 has a lot of support.
Pretty much been covered one time or another around here.
Would you mind posting your 8858 rom up here with ignition and fuel blanked ?
Does your car have a map sensor and egr as well as a rear o2? I've ran my car on 884, 8857,8858, 8859
IX roms are much more interchangeable
Last edited by 211Ratsbud; May 21, 2013 at 07:04 AM.
May 21, 2013, 01:13 PM
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It would seem that disabling bits 9 and 10 helped. I have been told that disabling bit 9 for a climate that can get rather cold (Helsinki, Finland) is a rather poor choice, so I'm going to enable it and run the logs again, but for now things are as they are supposed to be. Much appreciated!
Code:
TPS RPM Tim Load KnockV KS AFR 100 2000 6 111.8 0.468 0 12.5538 100 1968.75 6 114.4 0.312 0 12.4215 100 1906.25 5 114.4 0.429 0 12.4215 100 1937.5 5 115.7 0.351 0 12.4215 100 1968.75 5 115.7 0.2925 0 12.4215 100 2031.25 5 117 0.4095 0 12.201 100 2031.25 4 118.3 0.39 0 12.201 100 2000 4 119.6 0.429 0 12.201 100 2000 4 120.9 0.3315 0 12.201 100 2031.25 3 122.2 0.3315 0 12.201 100 2062.5 3 122.2 0.351 0 12.1128 100 2093.75 3 124.8 0.234 0 12.1128 100 2093.75 2 126.1 0.351 0 12.1128 100 2093.75 2 127.4 0.5655 0 12.1128 100 2093.75 2 127.4 0.312 0 11.9217 100 2093.75 2 128.7 0.39 0 11.9217 100 2125 2 130 0.2925 0 11.9217 100 2156.25 3 130 0.663 0 11.9217 100 2156.25 3 131.3 0.4485 0 11.9217 100 2156.25 3 133.9 0.3315 0 11.8335 100 2156.25 3 135.2 0.4485 0 11.8335 100 2187.5 2 135.2 0.546 0 11.8335 100 2218.75 2 136.5 0.4875 0 11.8335 100 2250 2 137.8 0.2535 0 11.6718 100 2250 2 139.1 0.4485 0 11.6718 100 2250 2 140.4 0.39 0 11.6718 100 2250 2 141.7 0.39 0 11.6718 100 2250 2 143 0.3315 0 11.6718 100 2312.5 2 144.3 0.468 0 11.4807 100 2312.5 1 145.6 0.3315 0 11.4807 100 2312.5 1 146.9 0.5265 0 11.4807 100 2312.5 1 148.2 0.5265 0 11.4807 100 2343.75 1 149.5 0.3315 0 11.4807 100 2375 1 150.8 0.468 0 11.2749 100 2406.25 2 153.4 0.546 0 11.2749 100 2406.25 2 154.7 0.351 0 11.2749 100 2406.25 1 156 0.4485 0 11.2749 100 2406.25 1 157.3 0.5265 0 11.1426 100 2437.5 1 158.6 0.5265 0 11.1426 100 2468.75 1 158.6 0.468 0 11.1426 100 2468.75 1 161.2 0.936 0 11.1426 100 2500 1 162.5 0.6045 0 11.1426 100 2500 1 166.4 0.468 0 10.9368 100 2500 1 169 0.468 0 10.9368 100 2531.25 1 170.3 0.663 0 10.9368 100 2562.5 1 171.6 0.6435 0 10.9368 100 2562.5 1 174.2 0.5265 0 10.8486 100 2593.75 1 178.1 0.4095 0 10.8486 100 2625 1 179.4 0.819 0 10.8486 100 2625 1 182 0.741 0 10.8486 100 2625 1 184.6 0.8385 0 10.8486 100 2656.25 1 187.2 0.5655 0 10.7751 100 2687.5 1 188.5 0.4875 0 10.7751 100 2718.75 1 192.4 0.624 0 10.7751 100 2718.75 1 195 0.6825 0 10.7751 100 2750 1 198.9 0.741 0 10.731 100 2750 1 200.2 0.9165 0 10.731 100 2781.25 1 205.4 0.624 0 10.731 100 2812.5 1 208 1.131 0 10.731 100 2843.75 1 211.9 0.4875 0 10.731 100 2843.75 1 215.8 0.9165 0 10.7016 100 2875 1 217.1 1.209 0 10.7016 100 2906.25 1 222.3 1.17 0 10.7016 100 2906.25 1 224.9 0.8775 0 10.7016 100 2937.5 1 230.1 0.897 0 10.7163 100 2968.75 1 234 1.053 0 10.7163 100 3000 1 240.5 0.702 0 10.7163 100 3062.5 1 243.1 1.0725 0 10.7163 100 3031.25 1 250.9 1.1505 0 10.7163 100 3062.5 1 254.8 0.975 0 10.7604 100 3093.75 1 258.7 1.3455 0 10.7604 100 3125 1 265.2 1.1505 0 10.7604 100 3156.25 1 271.7 0.741 0 10.7604 100 3218.75 1 279.5 1.131 0 10.8192 100 3218.75 1 284.7 1.3065 0 10.8192 100 3250 1 291.2 1.404 0 10.8192 100 3281.25 1 292.5 1.2675 0 10.8192 100 3312.5 1 296.4 0.975 0 10.8192 100 3343.75 1 297.7 1.1505 0 10.9074 100 3375 1 297.7 0.78 0 10.9074 100 3437.5 1 297.7 1.521 0 10.9074 100 3437.5 1 300.3 1.6185 0 10.9074 100 3437.5 1 300.3 1.248 0 11.0103 100 3500 1 299 1.6965 0 11.0103
May 21, 2013, 04:49 PM
#12
Evolved Member
Can you do a power log, with air temp included, and FAA bit 10 on and off.
It would be interesting to see if your chilly Helsinki air temps are getting into the game.
It should not be Acceleration Spark Retard, as the gain byte is set to zero on that rom.
It would be interesting to see if your chilly Helsinki air temps are getting into the game.
It should not be Acceleration Spark Retard, as the gain byte is set to zero on that rom.
May 22, 2013, 02:47 AM
#14
Evolved Member
Its used in most of the atmo cars, but I cant think of an evo that has the value other than zero, but ther may be some.
The other control parts are there though.
The other control parts are there though.
May 22, 2013, 03:13 AM
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I provided the full logs where the above snipped has been extracted to my tuner who still informs me that the timing issue persists. I'm a novice in this still so I'll take his word on it. Any other ideas that I can take a stab at while he is busy with more modified cars than mine?
Also, any idea why 88840017 was never "Tephra-ized" for the EDM faction?
Also, any idea why 88840017 was never "Tephra-ized" for the EDM faction?