MAP EF-series Turbochargers results thread
Dec 22, 2014, 12:05 PM
#1593
We sent them everything but the car, and it still took them months to FINALLY diagnose the issue because instead of trying to figure out what the problem was, they were trying to find ways NOT to warranty the turbo. Then when they finally did figure it out, they got arrogant as hell because they somehow forgot that THEY supplied the oil line. You can see that in their posts to me on this forum. The guy "Junior" was a much bigger tool in his emails.
They changed their tune quickly after they realized they were at fault. After that they FINALLY agreed to give me a refund, but then tried to withhold part of the refund because it took so long for us to request it, but it took that long because they were just sitting on the turbo! So my rebuild that started in the beginning of February ended in May when I picked the car up, and then the first turbo imploded at 250miles into my 450 mile drive home. Then the second turbo blew, and the car sat for another 5 months. Thanks to MAP I was without my car for 9 freaking months. So the situation was eventually handled, but nowhere near "to the customer's satisfaction."
Now I'm still getting used to the car again because I spent the last nine months driving an S2000 that I bought to drive in the meantime which I got stuck with 5 months longer than I planned to have it. Once I get used to racing it again as is I'll be going with a BBK Full BB. I wish I'd gone with that turbo in the first place. I've had 3 EVO's total, and probably 90% of all the parts ever ordered for all 3 came from MAP. That's over with. Hopefully I'll never have any reason to deal with MAP again for any reason in the future.
Dec 23, 2014, 08:42 AM
#1594
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I sincerely apologize for the issues you experienced...sincerely. Ideally, I do not wish to pour salt into an open wound and risk further aggravating you...from my experience, if a customer is upset, then regardless of the situation or the excuses, the ball has been dropped and the issue needs to be rectified...however, I would appreciate the opportunity to explain the timeline of events and why investigation took as long as it did...I know this will be of little consolation to you and I apologize for that...and I honestly hope you do reconsider us in the future.
Initially, when the failure was reported to me, Kevin had mentioned that the vehicle was no longer in his shop and he needed it operational as soon as possible...due to Kevin's knowledge in the platform and his offer to drive to your location to install the turbo on his dime, we opted to simply send a new turbo to replace the failed turbo...normally we would request a failed turbo to be sent in for inspection to determine the failure point and obviously salvage any components possible for rebuild. We skipped this step to get your car operational as soon as possible and taking the failure at face value.
What resulted from that exchange was another immediate failure...a failure which occurred before we ever even had a chance to inspect the original turbo. At that point, we needed the second turbo in for inspection to see if the failure was same...obviously, throwing turbos at the problem was going to result in the same failures. From memory, initially, the turbos were not sent in with the oil lines, or complete so all we could do was read the bearings on post failure analysis. The results looked similar between the two turbos leading us to believe that the cause of the failure had to be static or present on the car.
We requested the oil line be sent in which was supplied with the car to further explore the cause...and we request the supplied banjo bolt be supplied as well. I don't know why it took so long for us to receive those parts in for us to inspect but once we did, we found the reason for the failure...determined that it was a supply issue and truthfully reported that to you. It is no coincidence that we were able to determine the banjo bolt was at fault shortly after receiving it but we could not actually determine that without it being supplied and again, once we did, we refunded the turbo.
Again, I am not trying to necessarily defend us or your feelings towards us. If we wronged you, then I would like to personally apologize...hindsight, I think we should have had the original turbo shipped back with all components prior to just shipping a second turbo. We shipped the second turbo in good faith and because we wanted to assist you as quickly as possible, however I feel that might have caused more confusion and prolonged the actual results. Again, I apologize for that delay...but I hope you can at least understand the diagnosis process. Please feel free to contact me any time with any questions you might have about this. I am happy to help in any way I can.
Initially, when the failure was reported to me, Kevin had mentioned that the vehicle was no longer in his shop and he needed it operational as soon as possible...due to Kevin's knowledge in the platform and his offer to drive to your location to install the turbo on his dime, we opted to simply send a new turbo to replace the failed turbo...normally we would request a failed turbo to be sent in for inspection to determine the failure point and obviously salvage any components possible for rebuild. We skipped this step to get your car operational as soon as possible and taking the failure at face value.
What resulted from that exchange was another immediate failure...a failure which occurred before we ever even had a chance to inspect the original turbo. At that point, we needed the second turbo in for inspection to see if the failure was same...obviously, throwing turbos at the problem was going to result in the same failures. From memory, initially, the turbos were not sent in with the oil lines, or complete so all we could do was read the bearings on post failure analysis. The results looked similar between the two turbos leading us to believe that the cause of the failure had to be static or present on the car.
We requested the oil line be sent in which was supplied with the car to further explore the cause...and we request the supplied banjo bolt be supplied as well. I don't know why it took so long for us to receive those parts in for us to inspect but once we did, we found the reason for the failure...determined that it was a supply issue and truthfully reported that to you. It is no coincidence that we were able to determine the banjo bolt was at fault shortly after receiving it but we could not actually determine that without it being supplied and again, once we did, we refunded the turbo.
Again, I am not trying to necessarily defend us or your feelings towards us. If we wronged you, then I would like to personally apologize...hindsight, I think we should have had the original turbo shipped back with all components prior to just shipping a second turbo. We shipped the second turbo in good faith and because we wanted to assist you as quickly as possible, however I feel that might have caused more confusion and prolonged the actual results. Again, I apologize for that delay...but I hope you can at least understand the diagnosis process. Please feel free to contact me any time with any questions you might have about this. I am happy to help in any way I can.
Dec 23, 2014, 09:26 AM
#1595
I sincerely apologize for the issues you experienced...sincerely. Ideally, I do not wish to pour salt into an open wound and risk further aggravating you...from my experience, if a customer is upset, then regardless of the situation or the excuses, the ball has been dropped and the issue needs to be rectified...however, I would appreciate the opportunity to explain the timeline of events and why investigation took as long as it did...I know this will be of little consolation to you and I apologize for that...and I honestly hope you do reconsider us in the future.
Initially, when the failure was reported to me, Kevin had mentioned that the vehicle was no longer in his shop and he needed it operational as soon as possible...due to Kevin's knowledge in the platform and his offer to drive to your location to install the turbo on his dime, we opted to simply send a new turbo to replace the failed turbo...normally we would request a failed turbo to be sent in for inspection to determine the failure point and obviously salvage any components possible for rebuild. We skipped this step to get your car operational as soon as possible and taking the failure at face value.
What resulted from that exchange was another immediate failure...a failure which occurred before we ever even had a chance to inspect the original turbo. At that point, we needed the second turbo in for inspection to see if the failure was same...obviously, throwing turbos at the problem was going to result in the same failures. From memory, initially, the turbos were not sent in with the oil lines, or complete so all we could do was read the bearings on post failure analysis. The results looked similar between the two turbos leading us to believe that the cause of the failure had to be static or present on the car.
We requested the oil line be sent in which was supplied with the car to further explore the cause...and we request the supplied banjo bolt be supplied as well. I don't know why it took so long for us to receive those parts in for us to inspect but once we did, we found the reason for the failure...determined that it was a supply issue and truthfully reported that to you. It is no coincidence that we were able to determine the banjo bolt was at fault shortly after receiving it but we could not actually determine that without it being supplied and again, once we did, we refunded the turbo.
Again, I am not trying to necessarily defend us or your feelings towards us. If we wronged you, then I would like to personally apologize...hindsight, I think we should have had the original turbo shipped back with all components prior to just shipping a second turbo. We shipped the second turbo in good faith and because we wanted to assist you as quickly as possible, however I feel that might have caused more confusion and prolonged the actual results. Again, I apologize for that delay...but I hope you can at least understand the diagnosis process. Please feel free to contact me any time with any questions you might have about this. I am happy to help in any way I can.
Initially, when the failure was reported to me, Kevin had mentioned that the vehicle was no longer in his shop and he needed it operational as soon as possible...due to Kevin's knowledge in the platform and his offer to drive to your location to install the turbo on his dime, we opted to simply send a new turbo to replace the failed turbo...normally we would request a failed turbo to be sent in for inspection to determine the failure point and obviously salvage any components possible for rebuild. We skipped this step to get your car operational as soon as possible and taking the failure at face value.
What resulted from that exchange was another immediate failure...a failure which occurred before we ever even had a chance to inspect the original turbo. At that point, we needed the second turbo in for inspection to see if the failure was same...obviously, throwing turbos at the problem was going to result in the same failures. From memory, initially, the turbos were not sent in with the oil lines, or complete so all we could do was read the bearings on post failure analysis. The results looked similar between the two turbos leading us to believe that the cause of the failure had to be static or present on the car.
We requested the oil line be sent in which was supplied with the car to further explore the cause...and we request the supplied banjo bolt be supplied as well. I don't know why it took so long for us to receive those parts in for us to inspect but once we did, we found the reason for the failure...determined that it was a supply issue and truthfully reported that to you. It is no coincidence that we were able to determine the banjo bolt was at fault shortly after receiving it but we could not actually determine that without it being supplied and again, once we did, we refunded the turbo.
Again, I am not trying to necessarily defend us or your feelings towards us. If we wronged you, then I would like to personally apologize...hindsight, I think we should have had the original turbo shipped back with all components prior to just shipping a second turbo. We shipped the second turbo in good faith and because we wanted to assist you as quickly as possible, however I feel that might have caused more confusion and prolonged the actual results. Again, I apologize for that delay...but I hope you can at least understand the diagnosis process. Please feel free to contact me any time with any questions you might have about this. I am happy to help in any way I can.
I was exceedingly patient in the beginning, but then when there was no progress being made AFTER all the parts had been sent in, and no one on MAP's side was offering any explanation as to why, that's when I emailed Junior with questions. Another issue was the way the information was requested. They would request something, Kevin would send it immediately. No word for two weeks, then they requested something else, piece by piece, weeks at a time with no explanation as to what they were looking for so we could understand, and maybe anticipate what all they would need and be able to better assist in the investigation. Instead of acting as a team, they were being secretive, and defensive about everything. I had every right to be a bit agitated at this point because regardless of who was at fault, whether it was MAP, or Kevin, it wasn't me. Despite this, I'm the one incurring 100% of the inconvenience, and extra cost associated with being forced to keep a car I didn't want because mine still wasn't back yet.
Then Junior replied in very dickish ways with flawed logic behind his responses that pissed me off more. The only reason I didn't let him have it at the time is because I didn't want to run the risk of him being even more petty, and trying to screw me out of a refund...which is exactly what happened anyway. Like I told him, once all the parts, and pics were there it shouldn't have taken an additional 2-3 months to figure out what was wrong, and get me my money back.
I won't say it would have gone any smoother with you, because though you seem all nice and cordial now, you were just as snarky and arrogant as Junior when you thought you had the upper hand with your "We found some very interesting information about your turbos, sir" comment. Which honestly, there shouldn't have been any upper or lower hands in what should have been a simple discussion of facts, and diagnosis. A company should never be fighting a customer, especially when the customer isn't blaming anyone, and is only looking for answers. If it was Kevin's fault, fine, if it was your fault, fine. Either way, it wasn't MY fault. All I did was order the damn thing, and pay for it to get put on, so you guys could have kept that pissing match amongst yourselves. All I needed to know as the customer is that we have a swift resolution so I can determine whether my next moves are to cut ties with the company that sold me the turbo, or the shop that installed it. I could never make it that far though because you guys just sat on everything for months while I just sat here with no car.
I'm just glad it's all FINALLY over after being dragged out needlessly over the course of almost 5 months. That's just ridiculous, and there's really no excuse for that, but it is what it is. I don't have any hard feelings against anyone, I just won't do business with you guys anymore, and I will gladly tell anyone who asks about the full extent of the BS I had to deal with because if you did it, you should be a man and take responsibility. I won't lie, or exaggerate details, but people should know when things like this happen, and they can make their own decisions.
That said, I understand that to probably 98% of your customers that you are the best company they have ever dealt with. I used to be in that 98%, and the vast majority of that group will likely hold that view forever because they'll never experience any major issues that require any real attention. For those who may though, it's good to see how someone reacts when faced with an unusual, or difficult problem. You guys seemingly fell apart, and because of that I just personally won't deal with you. I may never have another issue with your company for as long as I own the car, but on the off chance that I would have another major issue, now that I have seen how you guys handle major issues, I can't take that chance. I don't have the desire to ever have to waste another 5 months without a car because of an orifice plate that could have and should have been caught almost immediately.
Last edited by ODUB; Dec 23, 2014 at 09:43 AM.
Dec 23, 2014, 04:11 PM
#1596
As soon as parts were requested, or pics were requested, they were shipped. I understand that you can't do anything without parts to look at. I was fine with that. It was months AFTER all the parts had been sent in that we finally got a diagnosis. I was fine with the steps taken up until that point. It was at that point that instead of trying to diagnose the issue it seemed the people we were dealing with were trying to find a way to blame Kevin.
I was exceedingly patient in the beginning, but then when there was no progress being made AFTER all the parts had been sent in, and no one on MAP's side was offering any explanation as to why, that's when I emailed Junior with questions. Another issue was the way the information was requested. They would request something, Kevin would send it immediately. No word for two weeks, then they requested something else, piece by piece, weeks at a time with no explanation as to what they were looking for so we could understand, and maybe anticipate what all they would need and be able to better assist in the investigation. Instead of acting as a team, they were being secretive, and defensive about everything. I had every right to be a bit agitated at this point because regardless of who was at fault, whether it was MAP, or Kevin, it wasn't me. Despite this, I'm the one incurring 100% of the inconvenience, and extra cost associated with being forced to keep a car I didn't want because mine still wasn't back yet.
Then Junior replied in very dickish ways with flawed logic behind his responses that pissed me off more. The only reason I didn't let him have it at the time is because I didn't want to run the risk of him being even more petty, and trying to screw me out of a refund...which is exactly what happened anyway. Like I told him, once all the parts, and pics were there it shouldn't have taken an additional 2-3 months to figure out what was wrong, and get me my money back.
I won't say it would have gone any smoother with you, because though you seem all nice and cordial now, you were just as snarky and arrogant as Junior when you thought you had the upper hand with your "We found some very interesting information about your turbos, sir" comment. Which honestly, there shouldn't have been any upper or lower hands in what should have been a simple discussion of facts, and diagnosis. A company should never be fighting a customer, especially when the customer isn't blaming anyone, and is only looking for answers. If it was Kevin's fault, fine, if it was your fault, fine. Either way, it wasn't MY fault. All I did was order the damn thing, and pay for it to get put on, so you guys could have kept that pissing match amongst yourselves. All I needed to know as the customer is that we have a swift resolution so I can determine whether my next moves are to cut ties with the company that sold me the turbo, or the shop that installed it. I could never make it that far though because you guys just sat on everything for months while I just sat here with no car.
I'm just glad it's all FINALLY over after being dragged out needlessly over the course of almost 5 months. That's just ridiculous, and there's really no excuse for that, but it is what it is. I don't have any hard feelings against anyone, I just won't do business with you guys anymore, and I will gladly tell anyone who asks about the full extent of the BS I had to deal with because if you did it, you should be a man and take responsibility. I won't lie, or exaggerate details, but people should know when things like this happen, and they can make their own decisions.
That said, I understand that to probably 98% of your customers that you are the best company they have ever dealt with. I used to be in that 98%, and the vast majority of that group will likely hold that view forever because they'll never experience any major issues that require any real attention. For those who may though, it's good to see how someone reacts when faced with an unusual, or difficult problem. You guys seemingly fell apart, and because of that I just personally won't deal with you. I may never have another issue with your company for as long as I own the car, but on the off chance that I would have another major issue, now that I have seen how you guys handle major issues, I can't take that chance. I don't have the desire to ever have to waste another 5 months without a car because of an orifice plate that could have and should have been caught almost immediately.
I was exceedingly patient in the beginning, but then when there was no progress being made AFTER all the parts had been sent in, and no one on MAP's side was offering any explanation as to why, that's when I emailed Junior with questions. Another issue was the way the information was requested. They would request something, Kevin would send it immediately. No word for two weeks, then they requested something else, piece by piece, weeks at a time with no explanation as to what they were looking for so we could understand, and maybe anticipate what all they would need and be able to better assist in the investigation. Instead of acting as a team, they were being secretive, and defensive about everything. I had every right to be a bit agitated at this point because regardless of who was at fault, whether it was MAP, or Kevin, it wasn't me. Despite this, I'm the one incurring 100% of the inconvenience, and extra cost associated with being forced to keep a car I didn't want because mine still wasn't back yet.
Then Junior replied in very dickish ways with flawed logic behind his responses that pissed me off more. The only reason I didn't let him have it at the time is because I didn't want to run the risk of him being even more petty, and trying to screw me out of a refund...which is exactly what happened anyway. Like I told him, once all the parts, and pics were there it shouldn't have taken an additional 2-3 months to figure out what was wrong, and get me my money back.
I won't say it would have gone any smoother with you, because though you seem all nice and cordial now, you were just as snarky and arrogant as Junior when you thought you had the upper hand with your "We found some very interesting information about your turbos, sir" comment. Which honestly, there shouldn't have been any upper or lower hands in what should have been a simple discussion of facts, and diagnosis. A company should never be fighting a customer, especially when the customer isn't blaming anyone, and is only looking for answers. If it was Kevin's fault, fine, if it was your fault, fine. Either way, it wasn't MY fault. All I did was order the damn thing, and pay for it to get put on, so you guys could have kept that pissing match amongst yourselves. All I needed to know as the customer is that we have a swift resolution so I can determine whether my next moves are to cut ties with the company that sold me the turbo, or the shop that installed it. I could never make it that far though because you guys just sat on everything for months while I just sat here with no car.
I'm just glad it's all FINALLY over after being dragged out needlessly over the course of almost 5 months. That's just ridiculous, and there's really no excuse for that, but it is what it is. I don't have any hard feelings against anyone, I just won't do business with you guys anymore, and I will gladly tell anyone who asks about the full extent of the BS I had to deal with because if you did it, you should be a man and take responsibility. I won't lie, or exaggerate details, but people should know when things like this happen, and they can make their own decisions.
That said, I understand that to probably 98% of your customers that you are the best company they have ever dealt with. I used to be in that 98%, and the vast majority of that group will likely hold that view forever because they'll never experience any major issues that require any real attention. For those who may though, it's good to see how someone reacts when faced with an unusual, or difficult problem. You guys seemingly fell apart, and because of that I just personally won't deal with you. I may never have another issue with your company for as long as I own the car, but on the off chance that I would have another major issue, now that I have seen how you guys handle major issues, I can't take that chance. I don't have the desire to ever have to waste another 5 months without a car because of an orifice plate that could have and should have been caught almost immediately.
Dec 26, 2014, 07:31 AM
#1597
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As I previously mentioned, I am of the firm belief that if a customer feels wronged, then there has been some kind of failure. I certainly appreciate your insight and your experience and I know it will be of little consolation to you, but I would like to extend my apologies, again...and take this event into consideration should future issues arise. Realistically, the best we can do is learn from mistakes. I would like to extend an invitation to reach out to me any time you might want or need to discuss this or really, anything you should choose further. I wish you Happy Holidays and again, I am tremendously sorry about your experience.
Dec 26, 2014, 11:29 PM
#1599
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So after taking my ef3 to 506/404 on e85 with the stock block I figured it was time for more power ended up with a 2.2l 4g63 2150s and upgraded to am ef4. I'm getting tuned on the 8th so I'll have so results then.
Pretty excited, and not gonna lie the service I got from map was outstanding. Made everything very easy and quoted me 3-4 weeks and was done in just about 3. I understand everyone has different experiences with vendors but so far with the last 3 years I've been nothing but pleased even when my ef3 needed warranty work done, took longer then expected due to a shortage in parts, but they guys really helped and kept me posted. Thanks again guys and wish me luck on the venture to the 600hp club
Pretty excited, and not gonna lie the service I got from map was outstanding. Made everything very easy and quoted me 3-4 weeks and was done in just about 3. I understand everyone has different experiences with vendors but so far with the last 3 years I've been nothing but pleased even when my ef3 needed warranty work done, took longer then expected due to a shortage in parts, but they guys really helped and kept me posted. Thanks again guys and wish me luck on the venture to the 600hp club
Jan 1, 2015, 03:06 AM
#1600
Evolving Member
So after taking my ef3 to 506/404 on e85 with the stock block I figured it was time for more power ended up with a 2.2l 4g63 2150s and upgraded to am ef4. I'm getting tuned on the 8th so I'll have so results then.
Pretty excited, and not gonna lie the service I got from map was outstanding. Made everything very easy and quoted me 3-4 weeks and was done in just about 3. I understand everyone has different experiences with vendors but so far with the last 3 years I've been nothing but pleased even when my ef3 needed warranty work done, took longer then expected due to a shortage in parts, but they guys really helped and kept me posted. Thanks again guys and wish me luck on the venture to the 600hp club
Pretty excited, and not gonna lie the service I got from map was outstanding. Made everything very easy and quoted me 3-4 weeks and was done in just about 3. I understand everyone has different experiences with vendors but so far with the last 3 years I've been nothing but pleased even when my ef3 needed warranty work done, took longer then expected due to a shortage in parts, but they guys really helped and kept me posted. Thanks again guys and wish me luck on the venture to the 600hp club
Unfortunately, I did not share the same luck as you
the EF4 failed TWICE on my X
Both within 60miles of use. Not sure what is going on, but I gotta send it back again and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Thankfully MAP has great customer service to back their products otherwise this would've been so much worse.
Jan 1, 2015, 01:27 PM
#1601
I wish you the best of luck.
Unfortunately, I did not share the same luck as you
the EF4 failed TWICE on my X Both within 60miles of use. Not sure what is going on, but I gotta send it back again and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Thankfully MAP has great customer service to back their products otherwise this would've been so much worse.
Unfortunately, I did not share the same luck as you
the EF4 failed TWICE on my X
Both within 60miles of use. Not sure what is going on, but I gotta send it back again and it left a bad taste in my mouth. Thankfully MAP has great customer service to back their products otherwise this would've been so much worse.....did you check the oil feed line? LOL
But how crazy would it be if that were the issue? Twice.
I used my stock lines. No issues, yet
Jan 1, 2015, 04:20 PM
#1602
Evolving Member
Jan 2, 2015, 02:11 AM
#1604
Evolving Member
Here is the link
http://www.maperformance.com/map-ef4...shi-evo-x.html
Details
- Includes MAP oil feed line and 3" turbo inlet
Car was being tuned by TSComp as well and I have been unable to complete the tune for 3 months now. It is extremely frustrating to have two turbos fail prematurely.
Although as stated before, their customer service is outstanding and I will definitely be buying more stuff from MAP, just not their EF line of turbos.
Last edited by Evo9_Dubai; Jan 2, 2015 at 02:22 AM.
Jan 2, 2015, 01:24 PM
#1605
Hm. If this new one fails, I'll probably look elsewhere (would be my second failure, though the first was on the used unit with no clue on it's history).
AutoZone has a lifetime warranty on axles. Doesn't mean I'm okay with swapping in free ones every week.
Awesome customer service. No doubt!
AutoZone has a lifetime warranty on axles. Doesn't mean I'm okay with swapping in free ones every week.
Awesome customer service. No doubt!