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Daine's Evo 8 Built 2.0L /w ETS 6466, Ported 70mm intake mani, GSC S3, 93 & E75
This is a long one so bare with me.
Daine brought his Evo to our shop for some tuning and visual inspection and boost leak testing which we require before we tune any vehicle
that visits the shop. This assures we can safely extract power from the customers car without worrying about issues to occur or working with
an inefficient setup.
During the visual inspection we have captured multiple issues. Instead of writing a book, I will just list all issues we came across and repaired
on this customers vehicle.
1. (2) major fuel leaks. One at the rail, one at the FPR Gauge itself (Reason: incorrect sealant used (not fuel compatible)).
2. Incorrect routing on wastegates to 3 port solenoid.
3. Torn axle boot on driver side inner wheel. Rebuilt axle with boot kit, But ended up replacing entire axle due to prior mechanics warping threading hitting the end with
a solid object / hammer instead of using the correct tool for the job which would be a rubber mallet.
4. Drained the 10w40 oil and put in Brad Penn 20w50 based on customers answers to our questions regarding the internals used in his motor
5. Tightened an extremely loose passenger motor mount (3 nuts were almost backed off and mount was seperated in half with a larger space inbetween) (very dangerous!)
6. Tightened a loose knock sensor which was causing extremely high counts of false knock activity not allowing the vehicle to tune correctly.
7. Re-seated injector o-rings due to seeing one twisted and not flushly seated
8. Repaired/Replaced Walbro 450 installation rubber seal/grommet & Wiring harness to pump relay
9. Ziptied all major lines that were not ziptied
10. New spark plugs (Replaced customers copper for our new pregapped iridium)
11. Built a TSComp direct USB cable and installed for customer to log wideband data & myself
12. Recalibrated & reconfigured customers Full Blown 70mm throttle body to function correctly with TPS
13. Compression tested vehicle on customers request/agreement
14. Washed and clean vehicle
As you can see, We repaired quite a few things on this customers vehicle, and in turn the vehicle produced extremely healthy power numbers to show
for it. This is one of the bonus's to having us do your car in person vs remote/email. In person we are able to physically go over the entire vehicle and
find every little mistake you or someone else may have made.
Throughout the entire time repairing, Daine always had a very positive attitude, which in turn helped me fix his car easier since I was happy to work with
such a good/positive customer who I could tell had great respect for his car and wanted only the best for it. Some things we did not repair and will leave
him to correct since he is more then capable, and I didnt want to keep adding labor to his bill. I like to save customers money when I can!
The vehicle was tuned with a turbine housing bolt missing, and I did notice a clicking noise since the first day I drove it, But unfortunetly I didnt catch the bolt missing
until the tuning was all but over. I showed Daine where the missing bolt is, and he will be replacing that himself. Spool should improve a little bit once that bolts replaced. If tune changes after bolt is repaired, I will adjust it free of charge.
Awesome numbers Tom, this was on a single 450? Also is there enough material on the stock manifold to bore out to 70mm to avoid using the adaptor plate on the full blown throttle body?
Ps I've emailed/texted with some questions before scheduling a tune with you. Also looking to purchase your double pumper kit.
Awesome numbers Tom, this was on a single 450? Also is there enough material on the stock manifold to bore out to 70mm to avoid using the adaptor plate on the full blown throttle body?
Ps I've emailed/texted with some questions before scheduling a tune with you. Also looking to purchase your double pumper kit.
Single walbro 450 Rewired yes in stock modified housing.
I don't think stock plenum can be bored out that far no.
Originally Posted by 2winscroll
Maxed out at 32 psi? Some good numbers for a lower boost 6466 !!!
I left it at the area I felt is safest for it for now without sacrificing to much power. The base pressure is stuck at 50psi due to the siphon needs drilled out for it to drop down.
From my experience single walbro 450's are done on dynojet by 750ish whp when the setup is right and car has larger lines.
That's still a ton of power from a single drop in pump.
Spool wise the car is pretty good for the setup is running, on the the road it will be even better as the loading changes. It does though has a bit more of improvement in regards to spool and full boost threshold, different dialing of cams some more aggressive mapping low down.
For reference, I run a 6868 custom billet dbb turbo on self made custom hot parts, setup and mapping, boost threshold is as low as 2K rpm and full boost rpm point of 2.6bar is at 4800rpm.
As for the bolt missing, as long as a metal gasket is used, with the 3 other bolts in place and as it is post turbine, no actual difference will be with the missing bolt back in its place
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jan 8, 2017 at 07:34 AM.
Reason: typo
Spool wise the car is pretty good for the setup is running, on the the road it will be even better as the loading changes. It does though has a bit more of improvement in regards to spool and full boost threshold, different dialing of cams some more aggressive mapping low down.
For reference, I run a 6868 custom billet dbb turbo on self made custom hot parts, setup and mapping, boost threshold is as low as 2K rpm and full boost rpm point of 2.6bar is at 4800rpm.
As for the bolt missing, as long as a metal gasket is used, with the 3 other bolts in place and as it is post turbine, no actual difference will be with the missing bolt back in its place
Marios
The bolt missing allows it to have a pre turbine housing leak which will hurt the spool and response time of the vehicle greatly. Also overtime running on 3 bolts the metal gasket will blow out and wear and crack on the corner with less pressure being placed down on the gasket.
So yes the bolt missing hurts spool, and transient response, and anything to do with throttle response.
Also there's nothing magical about tuning twinscroll vs single scroll. Tuner doesn't even need to know when hes mapping the car whats under the hood if hes good enough to do his job.
The bolt missing allows it to have a pre turbine housing leak which will hurt the spool and response time of the vehicle greatly. Also overtime running on 3 bolts the metal gasket will blow out and wear and crack on the corner with less pressure being placed down on the gasket.
So yes the bolt missing hurts spool, and transient response, and anything to do with throttle response.
Also there's nothing magical about tuning twinscroll vs single scroll. Tuner doesn't even need to know when hes mapping the car whats under the hood if hes good enough to do his job.
If a leak is where the turbine housing joins the chra of the turbo, then it is going to hurt spool but not greatly. If the bolt missing is on the join of the o2 housing and the turbine housing no it will not affect spool, being an inch or so after the turbine and with only one bolt missing, as for the gasket, if the gasket used is the type oem turbine housing gaskets are it will not be damaged. If it is a copper type or a very thin stainless steel one , then yes it will get burned. I also never said that the gasket will not get damaged over time, being the "weak type", I said that replacing that one missing bolt will not make any difference, and I stand by what I say, my experience says so. My gasket comment was to stress the fact that with a proper gasket in place the leak will be very little.
I also have not referred to the single scroll vs twin scroll, nor to what a tuner should or not know. I mentioned the dialing of cams as it is a factor that plays an important role in, boost threshold, spool, full boost rpm point and how a powerband is build. But since you've mentioned it, it is important that a tuner knows what is the hardware he is dealing with, i.e is it a built block or not, is it partially built, the type of camshafts the setup is using and if they are with adjustable pulleys and the rest of the ancillaries to go with or not, the size and type of the turbo, etc.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jan 9, 2017 at 01:55 PM.
Reason: typo
If a leak is where the turbine housing joins the chra of the turbo, then it is going to hurt spool but not greatly. If the bolt missing is on the join of the o2 housing and the turbine housing no it will not affect spool, being an inch or so after the turbine and with only one bolt missing, as for the gasket, if the gasket used is the type oem turbine housing gaskets are it will not be damaged. If it is a copper type or a very thin stainless steel one , then yes it will get burned. I also never said that the gasket will not get damaged over time, being the "weak type", I said that replacing that one missing bolt will not make any difference, and I stand by what I say, my experience says so. My gasket comment was to stress the fact that with a proper gasket in place the leak will be very little.
I also have not referred to the single scroll vs twin scroll, nor to what a tuner should or not know. I mentioned the dialing of cams as it is a factor that plays an important role in, boost threshold, spool, full boost rpm point and how a powerband is build. But since you've mentioned it, it is important that a tuner knows what is the hardware he is dealing with, i.e is it a built block or not, is it partially built, the type of camshafts the setup is using and if they are with adjustable pulleys and the rest of the ancillaries to go with or not, the size and type of the turbo, etc.
Marios
Most the forum members know cams change a powerband. Thats why we mention them in the title also.
Also as it says in the original post I made Its the turbine housing bolt, meaning its before the turbo/chra therefore it will have a great affect on spool, response, etc.
If it was at the o2 housing, I would of said o2 housing (actually I wouldn't of even mentioned it, because it has no negative affect on spool only positive reducing back pressure).
Its common knowledge a leak after the turbine wont hurt spool. Almost everyone on the forum knows this, As it is to know what cams, turbo, displacement/internals, injectors the vehicle has before tuning it safely as well.
The leak the car had will probably hurt it a good 300RPM in spool which in the turbo community world is quite a drastic affect. To me that's a great loss in performance. It can be less or worse depending on how long it was left leaking, as the gasket will distort and break apart. I've seen every case scenario in my shop on gasket leaks pre turbine. Depending how bad the gasket got dictates the affect on response/spool as you know.
Most the forum members know cams change a powerband. Thats why we mention them in the title also.
Also as it says in the original post I made Its the turbine housing bolt, meaning its before the turbo/chra therefore it will have a great affect on spool, response, etc.
If it was at the o2 housing, I would of said o2 housing (actually I wouldn't of even mentioned it, because it has no negative affect on spool only positive reducing back pressure).
Its common knowledge a leak after the turbine wont hurt spool. Almost everyone on the forum knows this, As it is to know what cams, turbo, displacement/internals, injectors the vehicle has before tuning it safely as well.
The leak the car had will probably hurt it a good 300RPM in spool which in the turbo community world is quite a drastic affect. To me that's a great loss in performance. It can be less or worse depending on how long it was left leaking, as the gasket will distort and break apart. I've seen every case scenario in my shop on gasket leaks pre turbine. Depending how bad the gasket got dictates the affect on response/spool as you know.
- Mentioning something in a thread title does not reveal nor explain the use of cams. It may one assume that it does affect power i.e, but how and why that is to be explained in more than a tittle line. Also my stress was not in the use of cams, but in the use of adjustable cam pulleys, in an effort to show that there can be a big difference in boost threshold, spool and full boost rpm point.
- For the record I'm not a simple forum member,I've been tuning cars for the past 20 years, but since you mentioned it, I do not take for granted that every forum member has the knowledge and or experience to understand where an exhaust leak matters and where it does not. I am in the habit of simplifying and explaining things as much as necessary for everyone to understand.
-Next time then do not post things such as the tuner does not need to know what there is in an engine, since you actually know that it is important that one does need to know.
-I'm not here to cause you any business trouble, I just do not like inaccuracies and false info.
Now about the leak, it seems that you have not understood what I said. Most
turbine housings, with the exception of those who are v band both sides or one sided v band, have bolt holes in both sides, but only one side has a gasket in place. There is no gasket where the CHRA bolts up to the exhaust housing. This is an area BEFORE the turbine. The only gasket that there is, is AFTER the turbine, about an inch or more depending on the turbine housing, where the turbine housing meets the O2 housing as I previously said. That leak of a missing bolt in that area does not matter and it will not affect the tune nor performance in any way. Also proper thick gasket of oem type will not get burnt. The only leak that matters is right BEFORE the turbine area, a leak that might be either to a missing, or lose bolt/s, or crack turbine housing at the specific area. It could be 300-500- or even 800 rpm if there is a big crack i.e.
I hope I'm more understood on what I say with the above.
I have seen your posts about setups you have done when I go through the forum and you are doing a good job, keep it up, and I wish you a happy new year and many more to come.
Marios
Last edited by Evo8cy; Jan 10, 2017 at 02:34 PM.
Reason: typo
I misread your initial response and thought you were insisting there's improvement in spool with ecu tuning. That's why I mentioned I could tune a setup without knowing what turbo setup it had.
The leak is pre turbine housing. Its on the actual t4 4 bolt flange which has a metal gasket. This as you agreed above, will result in poor performance with spooling, which is what I was trying to explain, but went off topic.
Thanks I appreciate it & same to you!
Last edited by tscompusa; Jan 10, 2017 at 06:57 PM.
Oct 19, 2016, 08:53 PM
