Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

I have seen many EVO owners drain their synthetic oil from their EVOs when they first get it and they fill it up with conventional regular oil. Their theory is that Synthetic oil is too slippery for the rings to seat in properly when braking the engine. This theory is supported by many tuners out there and not only that but its proven with Honda, in fact their S2000 manual states not to use synthetic oil in the braking period.

That makes us think. How could Mitsubishi sell a car with Synthetic oil stock with less than 10 miles on the odometer. Seeing some Internet junkies post about not using Synthetic is one thing but seeing Honda and Toyota do that makes us wonder right? Well not only Mitsu uses synthetic with new EVOs but Porsche uses synthetic with most if not all 911s starting from GT3s ending with 911 turbo. Add Vipers from Dodge and the Vett from Chevy.

For sure we have a problem here. It’s 50/50 should we brake the car in with synthetic or not. That puts us front of 2 theories.

1- The high performance engines that these car makers sale (Porsche, Dodge, Mitsu and Chevy etc) sale the engine broken in already. That means the engine ran on a stand in the manufacture (I have seen that and I think they do it on Vetts)

2- They add an additive in the synthetic oil that the car is filled with stock and ask us not to change the oil for 5K because its not pure Mobile one or synthetic oil. In other words its mix of oil that we don’t buy off the shelf and its braking in period.

So for the people who changed their synthetic oil after 500 miles ( like I did ) did wrong (maybe).

The people who changed their oil with convention oil (I will not agree on that) did wrong as well.

In both cases, I am sure Mitsu knows about their car more than Honda knows about it. Also, Mitsu knows more than a performance shop. I am not talking here about the dealer I am talking about the designers of the engine the real engineers behind it.

I don’t have facts here but I would love to see you guys chime in with thoughts and facts if available.

lukytry

hmmmmm.....

i changed at 1200 miles....

do the people who changed oil right away loose oil between oil changes?
I do but the car is very strong.

Rnm

iTrader: (4)

I wanted to change my oil at 5k miles, but I did it at 2500 miles as my oil was in between the 2 notches on the dipstick during that time. I assume its normal when breaking in a motor though. Hasn't burned anything yet as I have 3k miles.

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

I guess we need to test the stock oil our EVOs and see if it is the same as Mobil 1 10/W30 . or we need to know from someone for fact if they brake in the engine on a stand.

EVO_8

Whatever you do don't use conventional oil, turbo gets too hot.
Regular oil caused a problem with my first turbo car - 1987 Mitsubishi Starion.
The turbo simply stopped spinning. I took it apart and found hard, black carbon deposits on the internals. I was able to clean it up (wasn't easy) and got it to work.
Since then I've always used synthetic oil on turbo equipped cars.

HAMMERS

iTrader: (2)

Mitsubishi dose use a additive in the motor oil during breakin. As well as honda / toyota. I have worked at all 3 dealerships and have done Pree delivery inscections no all kinds of stuff. This is why thay dont want you to change oil untill after 5k miles for the first oilchange.
for further proof if you drain the oil on a new car w/less than 10 miles on it the oil looks kinda milky and white.

So yes thay do use an additive but i am not shure if thay use synthetic.

wacboyjulian

According to the "US Evolution Encylopedia" from EvoM and the Mitsu website, they use synthetic.

" A large capacity engine oil cooler helps control temperature and maintain the viscosity of the Mobil1® synthetic oil used in this high-performance engine to ensure many miles of durable service." (source: https://www.evolutionm.net/features/...mfeatures/20/4)

4cdndctn

iTrader: (8)

I have used Syn in all my cars, until now, the Evo. Research has taught me (if correct) that some of the corrosive properties of synthetic are not good for some internals and Mitsubishi, knowing their is mass blow by, recommends Syn because it does not have the same characteristics with regard to emissions.
I have no opinion on this, I just gathered as many facts as possible and decided the facts tie.

wicked-won

iTrader: (1)

You get the mass blow by because of not seating your rings. If you ever watch some C5 corvette who came with synthetic from the factory when they hit it hard you will notice a blueish tinge to the smoke and thats from the oil blow by. Me and two of my engineers at work did two oil changes of regular oil and none of us lose a measurable amount of oil on our changes now. We went back to syn after 6000 miles

J!n K@z@mA

iTrader: (9)

interesting.....but i bought mine used

Az3ar

iTrader: (18)

We are talking about additive here not oil. Mitsu for sure uses Mobile 1 on new EVOs but they might add an additive with out telling us. You will be surprised how many EVO owners don’t know crap about engines or how they even work. Not everyone around is knowledgeable about cars. Can you imagine if Mitsu says we use mobile 1 and additive!!! A million question will be asked and they will have to explain further and further.

I have found this on the web few years ago and I loved reading it


Synthetic vs. Petroleum based oils.
Synthetic oils were originally developed more than 50 years ago and became widely used in jet engines. Less than -120؛F ambient temperatures, 60000 shaft rpm, and 500؛+F exhaust temperatures proved too much for conventional oils. Synthetics were created specifically to withstand these harsh conditions and to date every jet engine in the world uses synthetic lubricants. Amsoil introduced the first synthetic oil for automotive use in 1972 and have continued to be at the leading edge of development ever since. Mobil 1, undoubtedly the most recognized name in synthetics, was introduced in 1976. Many companies have jumped on the bandwagon and have since released synthetic lubricants for automotive use and all are becoming increasingly popular for their superior lubricating properties, superior ability to flow at cold temperatures, and their ability to withstand high temperatures for extended periods of time. Several new cars including the Porsche 996 and the Chevrolet Corvette LT-1 are delivered with synthetic oil in the crankcase and require synthetic oil use throughout the life of the car.
There are two primary differences between synthetic oils and conventional petroleum oils. These are the base stock or liquid that makes up the volume of the oil, and the additive package. There are additives (not to be confused with over the counter additives which will be discussed later) in all oils that enhance the wear resistance properties of the oil, enhance the ability of the oil to neutralize acids and combustion by products, and provide corrosion protection for the engine’s internal surfaces. The amount and quality of these additives vary from one oil brand to another and this is a very significant factor in the ability of an oil to adequately protect your engine in all driving conditions. As a general rule of thumb, the cheaper the oil, the fewer additives it has and therefore, the less able it is to protect your engine.
There is one school of thought that suggests that the only difference in synthetic oils vs. petroleum oils is that the synthetics typically have a better additive package. This statement is only partially true. Synthetics almost always do have superior additives than petroleum oils. While this does add to the cost of the oil, it also enables the oil to last 3-5 times longer than conventional oil. The synthetic base stock however, is of paramount importance in the ability of a synthetic oil to flow at cold temperatures and withstand greater amounts of heat over significantly longer periods of time. Petroleum base stock molecules are long carbon chains that are sensitive to stress and heat. Additionally, various paraffins that are contained in all petroleum products regardless of how well refined they are, cause oil to jell like a syrup at extremely cold temperatures. At the other end of the temperature spectrum, high engine temperatures and heavy loads (as typically found in towing or racetrack applications) cause these chains to break down and the base stock actually boils off causing a change of viscosity and the formulation of sludge. This can happen at temperatures as low as 230؛ F and by 250؛ F many petroleum oils are suffering significant breakdown. Synthetic oils on the other hand are engineered specifically to provide all the lubricating properties that natural oil possesses, but none of the cold thickening or hot thinning properties of petroleum oil. Synthetics are made up of uniformly shaped molecules with shorter carbon chains which are much more resistant to heat and stress. Synthetics can withstand temperatures of 300؛F all day long and still protect your engine. In fact the American Society of Testing Materials (ASTM) standard wear resistance tests are conducted at 302؛ F. In this test synthetic lubricants far out perform petroleum lubricants by factor of four to one and greater.
Oil temperatures of 230؛F to 250؛F are not at all uncommon in driver’s education track conditions, particularly in early 911s with no front coolers or the marginally effective “trombone” oil coolers. These temperatures are also fairly common in air-cooled engines in summer time stop and go traffic with the A/C on. Further, temperatures on the cylinder walls and in turbos are often over 450°F for short periods of time. Liquid cooled cars can also have extremely high oil temperatures even though the water temperature may be normal. I observed this first hand several years ago in a race car where the water temperature stayed right on 210؛F while the oil temperature fluctuated between 240؛ F and as high as 280؛ F depending on how hard the car was driven. Needless to say, this particular car was running synthetic oil and remarkably ran about 50 hrs. between rebuilds with no significant wear. Further, Winston Cup star Rusty Wallace was recently quoted after the 2000 twin 125 races in Daytona that his car was running a little hot with water temperature at 230° and oil temperature at 260°F. Rusty’s team is sponsored by Mobil 1 and I would think it is safe to say that they use the product.
The point of the above paragraphs is quite simply that synthetic oils have a much wider operating temperature range, by design, than petroleum oils.
Off The Shelf Additives
There are countless over the counter oil additives on the market, as there have been for a number of years. In recent years a number of companies have appeared on the scene with huge national television advertising campaigns, racecar sponsorship, and more, all designed to make the consumer believe that the products really work and you are doing yourself a favor by adding these to your car. The fact is that these products are not necessary, do very little to help your engine, and in many cases may actually do more harm than good. The major car companies do not endorse any of these products and in fact your owner’s manual will undoubtedly advise you to avoid them.
Consumers Reports did a test (10/98) in an attempt to verify, or rebuke, one company’s ad which claimed that their product “bonded” to the engines moving parts forming a protective barrier against wear. The ad claimed that their test car ran without any oil all over Southern California, in stop and go traffic, with the air on, for 4 hours and 40 minutes. The ad also claimed that the only reason the driver stopped was to get something to eat. Pretty unbelievable. In an attempt to prove or disprove the viability of the ad, Consumer Reports tested two Chevrolet Caprices, both with identical zero time rebuilt V6 engines. Both cars were broken in with normal petroleum oil per the manufacturer’s recommendations. The oil and filter were then changed with one of the cars receiving the prescribed dose of this magic additive. Both cars were then driven for about 100 miles, allegedly long enough for this magical bonding to occur, and the oil subsequently drained. Both were then driven again, now with empty crankcases, in normal traffic to see how long they would last. Interestingly both engines failed, almost simultaneously, after about 14 minutes of driving thus proving the claims of the additive manufacturer to be nonsense. Consumer Reports notified the FTC of the test and their results and the manufacturer was subsequently forced to stop running the ad.
There are some over the counter additives that contain Teflon or PTFE. Once again the ads claim that the Teflon bonds to the internal working parts of the engine forming a slippery surface (like your Teflon frying pan) and therefore reducing wear. Fundamental laws of Physics prove that such claims are impossible, as the temperatures in internal combustion engines (200؛-250؛F) are insufficient for any bonding to occur. Further, independent oil analysis labs have observed that the suspended Teflon particles actually tend to accumulate the microscopic metals that are normal in engine oil formulating much larger, and potentially much more harmful, deposits in engines than would normally occur if straight motor oil had been used. In some cases, the oil filters became clogged, oil pressures dropped across the filter and oil analysis showed significantly more wear than oil alone. Similar to the previous situation, the FTC challenged the makers of products with PTFE on their claims of “coating of PTFE” and “reduced engine wear” based again on Consumer Reports findings of “no discernible benefits” from use of the product. The makers of these products agreed with the FTC in a settlement to stop using the above phrases in their ads.
Economics of Synthetics vs. Petroleum Lubricants
All of the manufacturers of synthetic oil tout the benefits of reduced wear, more horsepower, lower operating temperatures, and improved fuel mileage. All of these benefits are derivatives of better cold flow characteristics and higher levels of friction reducing additives that are found in synthetic oils. I can confirm better cold driving characteristics, increased fuel mileage of nearly 10%, noticeably lower operating temperatures, better heat dissipation capability, and long term high temperature stability based on my own experience with synthetic lubricants. Are these benefits enough, however, to persuade average drivers to give up their trusted petroleum oils and pay the extra price for synthetics? Enthusiasts, yes. Average drivers, perhaps not. However, synthetic lubricants can endure extended drain intervals, which is a major consideration toward justification of the higher costs. This benefit is not widely promoted by the major oil producers most likely because they want you to pay a premium for their synthetic oils every 3000 miles just like their regular oils. Most companies don’t bother to tell you that synthetic oils are capable of going 25,000 miles or more without significant breakdown. One customer told me he drove his Toyota more than 50000 miles (with filter changes every 10000 miles) before oil analysis results told him it was time for a change. It is not uncommon for over the road truckers to go several hundred thousand miles between synthetic oil changes. The short trips and stop and go city driving that most of do is much tougher on motor oil than over the road highway driving. In fact, frequent short trips (2 miles or less) and stop and go city driving is considered by some raters as extreme and our cars need increased protection. Fortunately, we can achieve the superior protection and the economic benefits of synthetic oils while staying within the recommendations of our car manufacturers.
Consider the following economic argument. If you change your oil every 3000 miles at a quick lube center at an average price of $23.00 per change, you spend $115.00 over 15000 miles. Most synthetic oil changes cost about $50.00 (much less if you do it yourself) on which you can drive 7500 miles very safely (a 7500 mile interval is within virtually all manufacturers recommendations). Over the same 15000 miles, only two oil changes are required for an investment of $100.00. A shop could charge up to $57.50 and it is still a break-even proposition, plus you put a superior product in your car and are receiving the additional benefits that synthetic lubricants can provide. I typically drive about 12000 miles between changes with a filter change and oil analysis at 6000. Even after 12000 miles oil analysis advises that the oil is “suitable for continued use” and typically the wear metals are less than conventional oil after 3000 miles. In fact in a test performed by Popular Mechanics some years ago, oil analysis showed in New York City taxicabs that there is typically less oil breakdown and less wear metals in Amsoil 10W40 synthetic oil after 60000 miles (albeit with filter changes every 6000 miles) vs. conventional 10W40 oil after 3000 miles. As an added benefit, less waste oil is being put back into the environment. A true win-win proposition.
Conclusion
Most major brand name petroleum oils perform adequately provided your driving conditions are normal and provided you change the oil regularly (remember, short city trips, driver’s ed track events, dusty conditions, and towing are considered extreme). Over the counter additives have been proven to be of little to no benefit, often do more harm than good, and are a waste of money regardless of what you drive and how you drive it. Finally, for those of you who drive your vehicle hard, tow a trailer, drive very short distances, sit idling and in stop & go traffic for long periods, live in a cold climate and/or if your car runs hot, quality synthetic motor oil, synthetic gear lube, and synthetic automatic transmission fluid is a wise investment that will provide the additional protection you require as well as last thousands of miles longer than conventional lubricants.
Well, there you have it - it's really not too difficult at all. If you would like to see more technical articles like this one, please continue to support Pelican Parts with all your parts needs. If you like what you see here, then please visit our online BMW catalog and help support the collection and creating of new and informative technical articles like this one. Your continued support directly affects the expansion and existence of this site and technical articles like this one.

3deep

iTrader: (4)

Congrats on the new 9 Az3ar.How do you like it so far.Im thinking about the 10 but we will set what wifey has to say about that.

Speedworks

how bout for rebuilt motors with internals? thanks!

wacboyjulian

If/ When i get my Evo IX, i would/am seriously consider(ing) replacing the synthetic with conventional for at least a couple thousand miles....

has anybody else gone this route? and if so, how were the results??? recommend or no?

coffeeslug

iTrader: (6)

My god man, don't do that.