ARP Rod Bolt Installation
Mar 13, 2006, 07:26 PM
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ARP Rod Bolt Installation
Ok, great suggestion for longevity by AL. I ordered a set from Summit (Part Number ARP-107-6002). Cost $37 and should arrive tomorrow. I searched all of the forum and was surprised the topic hasn't been covered in a how-to. I plan on doing this with pics on mine.
Anyway, I researched a bit and the have one main concern - about the removal of the oil pan. I've been under the car many times, but never really checked it out for this.
Does anyone know what needs to be removed in order to drop the oil pan? I would think the crossmember bar would need to be removed; and exhaust pipe; service manual says to remove the starter too.
Once I get that figured out, my *plan* is as follows (please, discuss so we can have a good how-to).
1) From the factory service manual, it looks like I would need the following:
a: Gaskets (return lines and oil cooler tube gaskets).
b: 3M AAD Part #: 8672, 8704, 3N AAD Part # 8679/8678 or equivalent.
Also, *highly* recommended would be a Rod Bolt Stretch gauge. I'd like to borrow one, or rent one from someplace like Pepboys, but I doubt they carry them.
2) Drop the oil pan (insert how-to here, including crossmember, exhaust, etc). And remove Oil Baffle. Care must be taken to not deform the mating surface of the oil pan. Also recommended, remove oil pan bolts and stick them through a piece of cardboard in the configuration removed (service manual states oil pan mounting bolts have different lengths from other bolts).
3) Clean mating faces of oil pan and engine block (scotch brite pads work good).
4) Rotate engine via cam gear to TDC (removing spark plugs would make this easier).
5) Measure stock rod bolt length with gauge for reference (if I can find a gauge to use).
6) Measure break-away torque of nut on one bolt on one rod (just for reference).
7) Remove 1 stock rod bolt (the one just measured).
8) Apply ARP lube to ARP rod bolt and nut.
9) Run nut down threads and back off (verify it threads down smoothly).
10) Install 1 rod bolt into rod and run nut down finger tight.
11) Install rod stretch gauge.
12) Record length with no torque applied to nut. A nice printable chart is found on ARP's site here
13) Tighten nut down until stretch gauge reads +0.0069" over recorded length from step 12 (unless gauge can be zero'd out initially).
14) Untighten nut (so no load is present) and measure rod bolt length. If rod bolt length is greater than 0.001" from value from step 12, replace bolt; else repeat step 13.
15) Repeat steps for the bolt on the other side of the rod - from step 5 - 14.
16) Repeat for next BDC rod from steps 5 - 14.
17) Rotate engine to BDC via cam gear (removing spark plugs would make this easier).
18) Repeat steps 5 - 15 for a single rod at BDC.
19) Repeat step 5 - 15 for next rod at BDC.
20) Apply 3M bead to oil pan (or engine block - I will post pic of bead configuration from service manual in how-to).
21) Wait 15 minutes after applying sealant. While waiting, reinstall baffle. After 15 minutes, assemble oil pan on block.
22) Finger tighten a few bolts and wait at least 1 hour for sealant to somewhat cure.
21) Torque oil pan bolts 80 +/- 26 in-lb.
22) Reinstall oil return lines with new gaskets (after cleaning mating surfaces).
23) Reinstall hardware removed to facilitate oil pan removal.
NOTES: Factory service manual states to torque rod bolts to 15 ft-lbs (+/- 1 ft-lb); Mark nut and then mark bolt 90-94 degrees from the mark on the nut; Tighten nut to 90-94 degrees. With ARP bolts, this would not pre-load the bolt nearly enough and could result in a major failure. ARP bolts for 1994 and above 4G63 engines are installed with 37 ft-lbs.
If no rod bolt stretch gauge can be found, ARP recommends 5 torque, untorque runs on each bolt to minimize friction and get a proper torque reading (keep the threads and friction surfaces oiled). I plan on finding or purchasing a stretch gauge, so this aspect can be filled in by someone else.
Like I said, this is my initial *plan* - I don't know if it is 100% correct or not, thus I'd love to see some feedback so we can get a nice how-to done. So please feel free to suggest other steps, etc.
Anyway, I researched a bit and the have one main concern - about the removal of the oil pan. I've been under the car many times, but never really checked it out for this.
Does anyone know what needs to be removed in order to drop the oil pan? I would think the crossmember bar would need to be removed; and exhaust pipe; service manual says to remove the starter too.
Once I get that figured out, my *plan* is as follows (please, discuss so we can have a good how-to).
1) From the factory service manual, it looks like I would need the following:
a: Gaskets (return lines and oil cooler tube gaskets).
b: 3M AAD Part #: 8672, 8704, 3N AAD Part # 8679/8678 or equivalent.
Also, *highly* recommended would be a Rod Bolt Stretch gauge. I'd like to borrow one, or rent one from someplace like Pepboys, but I doubt they carry them.
2) Drop the oil pan (insert how-to here, including crossmember, exhaust, etc). And remove Oil Baffle. Care must be taken to not deform the mating surface of the oil pan. Also recommended, remove oil pan bolts and stick them through a piece of cardboard in the configuration removed (service manual states oil pan mounting bolts have different lengths from other bolts).
3) Clean mating faces of oil pan and engine block (scotch brite pads work good).
4) Rotate engine via cam gear to TDC (removing spark plugs would make this easier).
5) Measure stock rod bolt length with gauge for reference (if I can find a gauge to use).
6) Measure break-away torque of nut on one bolt on one rod (just for reference).
7) Remove 1 stock rod bolt (the one just measured).
8) Apply ARP lube to ARP rod bolt and nut.
9) Run nut down threads and back off (verify it threads down smoothly).
10) Install 1 rod bolt into rod and run nut down finger tight.
11) Install rod stretch gauge.
12) Record length with no torque applied to nut. A nice printable chart is found on ARP's site here
13) Tighten nut down until stretch gauge reads +0.0069" over recorded length from step 12 (unless gauge can be zero'd out initially).
14) Untighten nut (so no load is present) and measure rod bolt length. If rod bolt length is greater than 0.001" from value from step 12, replace bolt; else repeat step 13.
15) Repeat steps for the bolt on the other side of the rod - from step 5 - 14.
16) Repeat for next BDC rod from steps 5 - 14.
17) Rotate engine to BDC via cam gear (removing spark plugs would make this easier).
18) Repeat steps 5 - 15 for a single rod at BDC.
19) Repeat step 5 - 15 for next rod at BDC.
20) Apply 3M bead to oil pan (or engine block - I will post pic of bead configuration from service manual in how-to).
21) Wait 15 minutes after applying sealant. While waiting, reinstall baffle. After 15 minutes, assemble oil pan on block.
22) Finger tighten a few bolts and wait at least 1 hour for sealant to somewhat cure.
21) Torque oil pan bolts 80 +/- 26 in-lb.
22) Reinstall oil return lines with new gaskets (after cleaning mating surfaces).
23) Reinstall hardware removed to facilitate oil pan removal.
NOTES: Factory service manual states to torque rod bolts to 15 ft-lbs (+/- 1 ft-lb); Mark nut and then mark bolt 90-94 degrees from the mark on the nut; Tighten nut to 90-94 degrees. With ARP bolts, this would not pre-load the bolt nearly enough and could result in a major failure. ARP bolts for 1994 and above 4G63 engines are installed with 37 ft-lbs.
If no rod bolt stretch gauge can be found, ARP recommends 5 torque, untorque runs on each bolt to minimize friction and get a proper torque reading (keep the threads and friction surfaces oiled). I plan on finding or purchasing a stretch gauge, so this aspect can be filled in by someone else.
Like I said, this is my initial *plan* - I don't know if it is 100% correct or not, thus I'd love to see some feedback so we can get a nice how-to done. So please feel free to suggest other steps, etc.
Mar 13, 2006, 07:34 PM
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I dont think that you should have to measure for stretch(I was wrong...measure for stretch...). That is the purpose of torquing a fastener to the proper value...so that it does not stretch. Just go with the 37ft/lbs. Not only that a outside micrometer or even a set of dial calipers will read the stretch. Might be worth it to have the tool calibrated, that goes for your torque wrench as well.
Step 4: I would rotate the engine from the crank, accessed by removing the front LH tire.
Step 4: I would rotate the engine from the crank, accessed by removing the front LH tire.
Last edited by althemean; Sep 24, 2006 at 02:24 PM.
Mar 13, 2006, 08:09 PM
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Thanks, for the comments. That step 4 is a good idea.
On the stretch vs. torque, well, I've read a ton of stuff on it. All bolts will stretch when torque is applied. The problem with torque, is you need to overcome friction to read the proper torque or load (friction in the threads, friction between the nut and the rod cap). ARP recommends torquing and untorquing 5 times before going for the final torque setting. This smooths (deburs) the threads and provides less friction and thus less error in the torque reading.
Every bolt has a property of stretch (tensile loading). In other words, when you apply a load or torque to a bolt, it stretches. This is a linear line on load vs length until plastic deformation occurs (the tensile load is greater than yield strength). So stretch is directly proportional to the load on the bolt (a lot more accurate because friction isn't a factor in the equation). ARP has stretch #s for our 4G63 engines of 0.0069" which for their 107-6002 bolt, equates to 37 ft-lb. The ideal is, to not stretch the bolt beyond its yield strength.
The reason I would rather do it myself, is that I will *KNOW* that it is done properly. If I took it to a dealer/mechanic, who knows what torque they would apply or how they measure it.
ALSO, I'm thinking of buying the ARP stretch gauge, then after I'm done, sell it. Maybe it could be a cycled amongst evolutionm members so that no one really is spending $120 for this. For instance, I buy it, then sell it to the next member for say $120 shipped...that way, I'm only out shipping costs...the purchaser uses it, then does the same...
On the stretch vs. torque, well, I've read a ton of stuff on it. All bolts will stretch when torque is applied. The problem with torque, is you need to overcome friction to read the proper torque or load (friction in the threads, friction between the nut and the rod cap). ARP recommends torquing and untorquing 5 times before going for the final torque setting. This smooths (deburs) the threads and provides less friction and thus less error in the torque reading.
Every bolt has a property of stretch (tensile loading). In other words, when you apply a load or torque to a bolt, it stretches. This is a linear line on load vs length until plastic deformation occurs (the tensile load is greater than yield strength). So stretch is directly proportional to the load on the bolt (a lot more accurate because friction isn't a factor in the equation). ARP has stretch #s for our 4G63 engines of 0.0069" which for their 107-6002 bolt, equates to 37 ft-lb. The ideal is, to not stretch the bolt beyond its yield strength.
The reason I would rather do it myself, is that I will *KNOW* that it is done properly. If I took it to a dealer/mechanic, who knows what torque they would apply or how they measure it.
ALSO, I'm thinking of buying the ARP stretch gauge, then after I'm done, sell it. Maybe it could be a cycled amongst evolutionm members so that no one really is spending $120 for this. For instance, I buy it, then sell it to the next member for say $120 shipped...that way, I'm only out shipping costs...the purchaser uses it, then does the same...
Last edited by 56Hotrod; Mar 13, 2006 at 08:13 PM.
Mar 13, 2006, 08:24 PM
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Also, wondering if anyone has stock piston weight and rod weight (I'm guessing this includes rings and rod pins).
ARP has given us the 0.0069" for the 4G63, but I wondering what RPM load they used to get the 0.0069" deformation as the proper pre-load? If I had these weights, I could calculate this myself and apply it at the proper RPM limit.
ARP has given us the 0.0069" for the 4G63, but I wondering what RPM load they used to get the 0.0069" deformation as the proper pre-load? If I had these weights, I could calculate this myself and apply it at the proper RPM limit.
Mar 13, 2006, 08:50 PM
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install rod bolts using a stretch guage. I recently bought some olivers and was told by the people i bought them from to torque to 45ft/lbs. the instructions state to use a snapon torque angle guage and a stretch guage. i torqued the first rod to 45ft/lbs and only got about .003, oliver rec's .0052-.0057. so next i tried oliver's method of 25ft/lbs + 50degrees which nailed the .0052 stretch required. the torque was well past 65ft/lbs. you just can not be accurate without a stretch guage, theres to many variables.
Last edited by nickracer9; Mar 14, 2006 at 01:13 AM.
Mar 19, 2006, 06:38 PM
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Does anyone know if the rod bolts are pressed into the connecting rod? In other words, is it even possible to replace the rod bolts without removing the whole piston assembly?
Factory service manual says nothing about this in disassembly.
Factory service manual says nothing about this in disassembly.
Mar 19, 2006, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by 56Hotrod
6) Measure break-away torque of nut on one bolt on one rod (just for reference).
Originally Posted by 56Hotrod
Does anyone know if the rod bolts are pressed into the connecting rod? In other words, is it even possible to replace the rod bolts without removing the whole piston assembly?
Factory service manual says nothing about this in disassembly.
Factory service manual says nothing about this in disassembly.
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Mar 19, 2006, 08:58 PM
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That's what I was thinking Stew...In fact, looking at your pics reminded me that the factory rod bolts are probably pressed in. Also, your whole ordeal is what got me wanting to replace mine (for insurance) anyway. And exactly why I wanted the reference of stock bolt stretch and un-torque specs.
MitsuEvoIIX, the bolts pictured in Stew's post are stock. The ARP rod bolts do not have the longetudinal grooves, so I'm still uncertain if the ARP bolts are pressed in.
Upon researching more, someone has stated that when changing rod bolts, that bearings need to be replaced (probably a good idea - not sure its 100% necessary). Also that the rod would need to be machined for roundness (also not sure if this is true - but a good idea if the engine is torn down).
The purpose of this post, is to see if it is possible to do the installation without disassembling the whole motor.
Thanks for the replies.
MitsuEvoIIX, the bolts pictured in Stew's post are stock. The ARP rod bolts do not have the longetudinal grooves, so I'm still uncertain if the ARP bolts are pressed in.
Upon researching more, someone has stated that when changing rod bolts, that bearings need to be replaced (probably a good idea - not sure its 100% necessary). Also that the rod would need to be machined for roundness (also not sure if this is true - but a good idea if the engine is torn down).
The purpose of this post, is to see if it is possible to do the installation without disassembling the whole motor.
Thanks for the replies.
Mar 19, 2006, 09:10 PM
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Also Stew, that pic definitely shows rod bolt failure. Here's a suggestion. If you can get hold of a 10x magnification lens (or better), take a digital picture of the fracture surface. Just place the 10x on the digital camera lens and try to get a good pic (you'd need some external lighting too). Beach marks may be visible (see link):
http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094...ges/fatig3.jpg
It definitely looks like High Cycle Fatigue which could mean:
1. Bolts weren't torque properly
or
2. Bolts were subject to higher stress (from higher RPM loads).
I mentioned a while back about getting those tested by an independant lab. I've worked with www.imrtest.com (Ron Parrington) and they could possibly help. Couldn't hurt to give them a call.
http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094...ges/fatig3.jpg
It definitely looks like High Cycle Fatigue which could mean:
1. Bolts weren't torque properly
or
2. Bolts were subject to higher stress (from higher RPM loads).
I mentioned a while back about getting those tested by an independant lab. I've worked with www.imrtest.com (Ron Parrington) and they could possibly help. Couldn't hurt to give them a call.
Mar 19, 2006, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by MitsuEvoIIX
^^^ are those stock or arp rod bolts?
Originally Posted by 56Hotrod
Also Stew, that pic definitely shows rod bolt failure. Here's a suggestion. If you can get hold of a 10x magnification lens (or better), take a digital picture of the fracture surface. Just place the 10x on the digital camera lens and try to get a good pic (you'd need some external lighting too). Beach marks may be visible (see link):
http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094...ges/fatig3.jpg
It definitely looks like High Cycle Fatigue which could mean:
1. Bolts weren't torque properly
or
2. Bolts were subject to higher stress (from higher RPM loads).
I mentioned a while back about getting those tested by an independant lab. I've worked with www.imrtest.com (Ron Parrington) and they could possibly help. Couldn't hurt to give them a call.
http://www.sv.vt.edu/classes/MSE2094...ges/fatig3.jpg
It definitely looks like High Cycle Fatigue which could mean:
1. Bolts weren't torque properly
or
2. Bolts were subject to higher stress (from higher RPM loads).
I mentioned a while back about getting those tested by an independant lab. I've worked with www.imrtest.com (Ron Parrington) and they could possibly help. Couldn't hurt to give them a call.
Back to the rod bolt replacement.. If you were to remove one at a time, that would hold pressure on the OEM rod bearing and I would not see how the bearing would need to be replaced or the surface of the rod machined. That sounds like more efford than its worth. If you were to take the time/effort to dis-assemble the motor enough to remove all of the rods, buy new bearings, get them machined, etc, you might as well buy a built race motor.
I believe a few companies will provide rod bolt replacement services, and I don't think they replace bearings, let alone shave the rod mating surfaces..
Mar 19, 2006, 09:31 PM
#13
In order to properly install ARP rod bolts onto the factory rods they must be pressed in. I spoke to a rep from ARP about this when I was going to install the ARP rod bolts onto my stock pistons. The old ones will have to be pressed out and the new ones pressed in. This is the only way to do it properly. So in other words, the rods and pistons will have to be removed from the car.
What are you trying to rev to? The stock rod bolts should not have to be upgraded if you don't plan to go past 7800 to 8000 rpms. It's just to much of a hassle. If you were going to upgrade them you might as well throw those stock rods and pistons out and put some better ones in.
What are you trying to rev to? The stock rod bolts should not have to be upgraded if you don't plan to go past 7800 to 8000 rpms. It's just to much of a hassle. If you were going to upgrade them you might as well throw those stock rods and pistons out and put some better ones in.
Last edited by bpclements; Mar 19, 2006 at 09:33 PM.
