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Old Mar 22, 2007, 09:29 AM   #1
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TECH ARTICLE: 16g turbos and all its variants (20g)

Quote:
i will say this for the last time as this has GOT to be the definitive thread.

TME is the turbo that came on the evo 6.5 tme. it has titanium aluminide turbine wheel. it has a 10.5 housing also. otheriwse the compressor is the same but revisions have been made to the newer turbine housings so this turbo is outdated at best.

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WR also known as the fp white rabbit turbo. this is simply an evo 8 turbo (05) with a larger FIVE BLADED compressor wheel installed by forced performance.

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THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN 8 AND 9 TURBO.




both have 10.5 hot side. both have unaltered turbine wheels. both use the same chra, this means you can swap and mix and match these two turbo's parts to your heart's content (tme9 plug inserted here).

the cold side is the only difference. 9 cold side housing has a larger diffuser, this is the snail section, it's both longer and wider in diameter inside, this creates a faster boost up/boost production/boost response. as a result of the added length of the snail section also known as diffuser, the overall housing is larger. the exducer of the 9 turbo is larger to fill up the space inside of the 9 housing (see below for caveats). the inducer remains relatively the same size.

the reason for br moving to 9 housing is to remove all chances of surge on his and now fp's wheel, larger housing also allows more air through even though the wheel that the 20gs are using is based off the old 8 housing which would leave exducer diameters smaller!

small things that are different. the angling of the turbo oil lines is slightly off due to the 9 housing size. the angle of the coolant line is also a bit off. these two can be bent to fit. the cold side outlet pipe is much different and you can't bend this unit to fit it between the two turbos. so the outlet elbow pipe is the only thing you need from the install kit. everything else can be bent to fit.

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20g-8 or 20g8-6. this was a failure 6 bladed stock turbo that surged like ****. came as the first iteration of the failed turbochargers.com and buschur partner up.

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20g-9-6. this is turbochargers.com's previous and fouled venture with br. it is less efficient than the 5 blade design. also not recommended for use with ti al internals. tc.com and it's distributors have however sold these with ti al internals. the ti al internals are not real genuine oem pieces but are copies of tme style ti al wheels.

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20g-9-5. this is the buschur and fp joint venture turbo. it has the wr style 5 bladed design. this turbo is not recommended for ti al internals.

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TME9. now everyone pay attention cuz i'm really quite tired of explaining what this is and no one can get it straight. the tme 9 is the ENTIRE TME 6.5 HOT SIDE mated to THE ENTIRE EVO9 COLD SIDE. that said you can make this turbo several different ways. you can get a 9 turbo and put the tme6.5 ti/al TURBINE wheel in it. or you could piece together the two halves.? or you could buy every part seperately and put it together.

JDM 9RS turbo. this turbo is special, it comes with the equivalent of a 10.5 hot side (with internals, ti/al) and a 9 cold side with the addition of a magnesium 9 compressor wheel. early runs of the jdm 9rs turbo had mag wheel failures with increased boost pressures.

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this signifies that the tme9 is safe to run and will cause no surging or too-early-spool-up- issues. as the jdm 9rs turbo spools even faster with no ill effects. this also signifies a different way to piece together a tme9, basically taking a jdm 9rs turbo and replacing the mag wheel with an aluminum one.

forced performance evo green aka buschur racing 20gLT (large turbine) this turbo is basically a 20g9-5 with a larger turbine wheel made by forced performance.

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thread about evo green turbo aka 20glt
http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=25963.0



turbo dynamics is one of many uk companies which specialize in ball bearing cartridge 16g turbos. they have recently made a ball bearing 16g with the WR wheel.



http://www.socalevo.net/index.php?op...&topic=32342.0

other uk shops doing ball bearing 16g turbos include essex turbo


and evo400

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evo400 evo9 turbo with restrictor

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evo400 wrc turbo

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evo400 ball bearing conversion kit

the uk turbos suffer from huge price inflations due to limited production, high amount of requisite precision work and vat plus exchange rate hikes
Quote:
http://forums.evolutionm.net/showthr...hlight=TD05HRA

comparo site

http://homepage2.nifty.com/lancer/turbo.htm

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[QUOTE author=jemm]Got some of this info from a brochure. Some of this may have been posted here before but here goes:

Evolution 1
Turbo = TDO5H16G-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Exhaust turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide


Evolution 2
Turbo = TDO5H16G-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 60mm wide


Evolution 3
Turbo = TD05H16G6-7
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 7
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 4
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9T
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 5
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 6
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), Titanium alloy (RS/RS2)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 6 : Tommi Makinen Edition
Turbo = TD05RA-15GK2-10.5T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (RS/rs2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5
Turbine = Titanium alloy for both RS/RS2/GSR!
Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm (gsr) - 68mm(rs) wide


Evolution 7
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR)
TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8
Turbine = GSR - Inconel (steel alloy), RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution 7 GTA
Turbo = TD05-15GK2-9.0T
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.0
Turbine = Inconel (steel alloy)
Compressor = Aluminium, 65mm wide


Evolution 8
Turbo = TD05HR-16G6-9.8T (GSR / USDM E8)
TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T (RS/RS2)
Nozzle Area (cm2) = 9.8
Turbine = USDM EVO 8 & JDM GSR =Inconel (steel alloy),
RS/Rs2=Titanium alloy.
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


Evolution MR aka "8.5"
GSR = TD05HR-16G6-10.5T or TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T (Ti Alloy option)
RS = 6MT:TD05HRA-16G6-10.5T or 5MT:TD05HRA-16G6-9.8T

Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 or 9.8(RS-5speed)
Compressor = Aluminium, 68mm wide


All Evo 4-8 Turbos are twin scroll designs meaning that the engines exhaust is divided into two channels (see first pic). As the engine exhausts in pulses.. its supposed to result in quicker spooling. From the Evo 4 onwards, the Turbo spins in the opposite direction, i.e. Anticlockwise (hence the R in the turbo name). The Titanium Alumnide alloy used in the RS/RS2 and some GSRS (factory option) has less inertia and thus spins up around 500 rpm sooner. These Titanium turbos can be indentified by the A in their name.
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note that there were revisions in the coolant passgages between the 7 and 8 turbos!!!

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evo 8 9.8 housing diagram.

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how the chra is cooled.

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[QUOTE author=jemm;420939]Inconel 600
Density = 8470 kg/m3,
Tensile strength = 95 ksi,
Yield strength 45 ksi

Titanium
Density = 4507 kg/m3,
tensile strength 130 ksi,
yield strength 120 ksi

tinanium alumnide specs to follow....

This is the GSR vs. RS turbo's weight:[/QUOTE]

obvious difference in weight between the ti/al wheel and the inconel wheel.

[img width=700 height=464]http://www.socalevo.net/gallery/albums/userpics/10991/normal_62208.jpg[/img]

this is a picture of a 9.8 evo8 turbo on the left compared to a 10.5 turbo on the right. notice that the left has a dual flapper wastegate design and the 10.5 has a single flapper. please note that:

- 6.5 TME = 16g6 with Ti/Al internals and dual-flapper 10.5 cm^2 hotside
- USDM 03/04 VIII = 16g6 with dual-flapper 9.8 cm^2 hotside
- USDM 05 VIII - 16g6 with single-flapper 10.5 cm^2 hotside

also note that in japan the 9.8 was available in a single flapper but was a manufacturer's replacement item, it was never installed on any cars out of the factory.


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dual flapper

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single flappers

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twin scroll flange

various pictures:

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Evolution 9
USDM & JDM = TD05HRA-16G6C-10.5T
Turbine: GSR / GT = Inconel alloy, RS = Titanium alloy
Compressor: GSR / GT = Aluminium, RS = Magnesium Alloy
(??) mm wide (to be verified.)

Nozzle Area (cm2) = 10.5 (note: to be confirmed that RS 5MT has 10.5)

RS E9 turbo part number 1515A059 (approx cost 250,000 yen from Mitsi Japan). *Warning* There are reports of RS magnesium compressor wheel failing if boosted above stock boost.

More Evo 9 Turbo info:
... * New more efficient & larger Compressor preventing compressor surge
... * Better pump gas efficiency
... * Turbine Nozzle Area (cm2) = Large 10.5 Hotside (single flapper)
... * Improve actuator design

Side by side comparison E8 v E9 turbos (E9 is on the left and E8 on the right):

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[/quote]
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Last edited by trinydex; Aug 17, 2007 at 09:44 PM.
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Old Mar 22, 2007, 10:09 AM   #2
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Nice thread man. Looks like you tapped a lot of resources for all the information.
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Old Mar 22, 2007, 10:47 AM   #3
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good info thanks
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Old Mar 22, 2007, 12:14 PM   #4
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 11:34 PM   #5
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help me understand something with some of the terms you are using. You said

Quote:
Originally Posted by trinydex View Post
both use the same chra, this means you can swap and mix and match these two turbo's parts to your heart's content (tme9 plug inserted here).
are you refering to the chra as the cartridge, as labeled in this pic

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where the cartridge assembly has the compressor/exhaust blades and the wheel?

well to clarify, the compressor cover is not the only difference between the evo 8 and 9 turbo's. so is the catridge.
so you have to get the compressor cover and the cartridge. the cartridge can be bare, where you can swap in your evo 8 compressor/exhaust blades and the wheel.
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 11:40 PM   #6
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if you mean that the cartridges are different in that the attatched blades are different i already referenced that difference earlier....

so i don't understand your question and i think the answer you're looking for is already stated. you can swap them around and they all fit. prolly why the evogreen comes in all the forms it comes in eh?
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Old Mar 25, 2007, 11:43 PM   #7
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i wasn't asking a question, i was making a comment so others can understand. it seemed a little confusing when you say chra and cartridge. also when you said

but, to clarify, let me ask you this. what is the chra exactly? what does it consist of?
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 08:02 AM   #8
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In a nutshell, whats the difference between IX turbo and an evogreen?
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 08:36 AM   #9
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Triny you a true Guru dude
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 12:12 PM   #10
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One fix you need to make Davey.

THe original WR turbos had TiAL hotsides just like the TME. It was only later on, when FP started converting previous turbos into WR's where the non-TiAL hotsides started showing up
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 01:41 PM   #11
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After looking at the pictures between the Evo 9 turbo with Mag Wheel versus the Evo 8 MR turbo, it looks like the Compressor wheel is bigger. Is that true? Does that also hold true for the hotside wheel? Also, when comparing the a regular Evo 9 turbo versue an Evo 8 turbo, will there be compressor & hotside wheel difference?
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 08:34 PM   #12
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sweeeeeeeeeet INFO!!!! i learn something new everyday on here!!!
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 08:56 PM   #13
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 09:04 PM   #14
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trinydex is a guru at the very least
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Old Mar 26, 2007, 10:15 PM   #15
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good info
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