Oil Cooler Thermostat.
Aug 18, 2008, 05:14 AM
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Oil Cooler Thermostat.
So while I have my motor out of the car and disassembled, I was playing with the oil filter housing assembly, and pulled out the oil cooler thermostat. I disassembled it and was playing with it in the housing, studying its intended operation, and curiously looked at the Tomei Oil Thermostat Killer.
In looking at the Tomei thermostat killer, it appears as though it just removes the thermostat operation (The rod that moves when it gets to a certain temperature, just like a coolant thermostat), but it retains the spring and valve looking operation. I disassembled my OEM thermostat, put it back in the housing, and was wondering why we couldn't simply remove the clip, spring, and spring retainer to allow oil to circulate through the oil cooler all the time?
Now, I know some of you are going to talk about warm up times and ambient air temperatures (Winter/summer etc). For someone like me who lives in Charleston, SC, it is hot most of the year. I am also very disciplined (As I have a remote starter on the car) of letting the car warm up before I drive it. I used to live in Buffalo, NY so I had the remote starter to melt the snow, now I use it to cool the car before driving (A/C). 99.99% of the time, the car is/has been runnning for around 4-5 minutes before it even moves, so warm up times don't really affect me.
The question I have now is in thinking of the theory and intended operation of that system, why not just simply remove the spring/retainer/clip and replace it back into the housing instead of buying a $85 Tomei piece? Would this accomplish the same thing? It was basically make oil circulate through the oil cooler immediately upon startup.
I am hoping some of the more experienced guys can chime in here. I spent last night reading up in my service manuals about the system, and sadly it doesn't really say much at all.
Here is a link to Lancershop's site for the Tomei Oil Thermostat Eliminator
http://www.lancershop.com/customer/p...8&cat=0&page=1
Any input? It would be nice to see an educated discussion on this.
In looking at the Tomei thermostat killer, it appears as though it just removes the thermostat operation (The rod that moves when it gets to a certain temperature, just like a coolant thermostat), but it retains the spring and valve looking operation. I disassembled my OEM thermostat, put it back in the housing, and was wondering why we couldn't simply remove the clip, spring, and spring retainer to allow oil to circulate through the oil cooler all the time?
Now, I know some of you are going to talk about warm up times and ambient air temperatures (Winter/summer etc). For someone like me who lives in Charleston, SC, it is hot most of the year. I am also very disciplined (As I have a remote starter on the car) of letting the car warm up before I drive it. I used to live in Buffalo, NY so I had the remote starter to melt the snow, now I use it to cool the car before driving (A/C). 99.99% of the time, the car is/has been runnning for around 4-5 minutes before it even moves, so warm up times don't really affect me.
The question I have now is in thinking of the theory and intended operation of that system, why not just simply remove the spring/retainer/clip and replace it back into the housing instead of buying a $85 Tomei piece? Would this accomplish the same thing? It was basically make oil circulate through the oil cooler immediately upon startup.
I am hoping some of the more experienced guys can chime in here. I spent last night reading up in my service manuals about the system, and sadly it doesn't really say much at all.
Here is a link to Lancershop's site for the Tomei Oil Thermostat Eliminator
http://www.lancershop.com/customer/p...8&cat=0&page=1
Any input? It would be nice to see an educated discussion on this.
Aug 18, 2008, 06:10 AM
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yes, the tomei thermostat, from what i see is basically a 'modified'stock thermostat.
modifying the stocker would work but make sure to let your car warm up each time before you go hard on it..
modifying the stocker would work but make sure to let your car warm up each time before you go hard on it..
Aug 18, 2008, 06:16 AM
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But the thing is, the Tomei looks different than the stock one in that it is a machined piece, but still retains the spring and retainer. I am wondering why Tomei would call it a "Thermostat Killer" but still retain the spring and retainer. i am wondering if the spring/retainer acts like a check valve of some sort.
Aug 18, 2008, 06:20 AM
#4
the best situation for a motor would be hot oil at start up. Anything that delays oil from getting up to temp is not good. A thermostat is one of the best things for an oil system.
I'd put the tomei thing back in the box and return it.
you may have read this post before, I lifted it from somewhere, not particularly relevant but interesting nevertheless
I copied this off another forum where I asked if a thinner oil wouldn't be better for a modern performance car, even one used on the track. Since I found it so interesting here it is in total.
"It is not the thickness of the oil that matters, it is the viscosity (e.g. resistance to flow) with is completely different than SAE weight (which is a target band of viscosities at a given oil temperature.)
Your engine is designed for a particular viscosity range. Say 20cSt down to 2.5cSt.
There is a minimum viscosity where wear accelerates and it become impossible for the engine to survive the 120K miles government mandate for emission controls. Any viscosity above this minimum will allow your engine to lead a nice long life. Most modern engines can live a nice long life as long as the actual viscosity remains above 2.5cSt. Since few engines pull heavy loads all the time, the manufactures target about 10cSt of oil viscosity for the normal operating condition. This is a thick 20W or a thin 30W oil.
At the other end of the viscosity spectrum, there is a maximum viscosity above which the oil pump cannot push enough oil to keep the various bearings lubricated. Here is a regimine where overly thick oils will actually hurt your engine. Viscosities above 1000cSt provide marginal lubrication.
No oil is thin enough at startup, even in the 100dF heat of Texas summers! And until your oil gets up to 100dC (212dF) it is too thick. But there is another factor, until the oil gets hot, the antiwear package is not working all that well. So, manufactures design the oil system to reach operating temperature fairly rapidly (5 to 20 minutes).
So at normal operating conditions (10cSt at 100dC) the oiling system has plenty of margin (above the 2.5cSt minimum). Now tow a load, or take the car to the race track, and the oil temperature rises. When a 30W oil reaches about 265dF it also reaches about 3cSt and the margin in the system is removed. Is rapid wear happening, no, but it is not far away from happening. In similar situations a 40W oil will reach that 3cSt at about 280dF and a 50W at 300dF.
So, based on the operating temperature of the oil you choose the oil that remains above the design viscosity of the engine, and you will be happy.
On the other side of the coin, thicker oils allow startup wear to continue far longer until the oil heats up and thins out. So for an application where many short trips are 'de rigor', the thinnest oil possible prolongs the life of the engine.
So, how does one achieve a thin oil under operating conditions and a thick oil under stressful conditions? One uses an oil cooler with a thermostat! Only high dollar sports cars have these kinds of systems *Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini}. Even the venerable Corvette only has the oil cooler on the Z51 option package, and here it has no thermostat to avoid overcooling the oil.
Racing cars (especially endurance racing cars) use thick oils. We have one of these critters in the shop. With a 750 HP SBC (Lola T70 CanAm car), the startup instructions read something like this. 45 minutes becore cranking the engine over, turn on the oil heater. When the oil gets up to 100dC, run the electric oil pump until you have 60 PSI of pressure through the engine for 1 minute. Turn off fuel pumps, turn off both sets of the ignition, crank the enigne over for 20 seconds. Turn on the fuel pumps, prime the velocity stacks with a tablespoon of 110 octane gasoline for each stack. Turn on startup ignition. Attempt to start the engine, but do not crank for more than 5 seconds. If engine catches, spin it up to 2.5K RPMs until it will run cleanly, then reduce speed gradually, until it will hold idle at 1,200 RPMs. Then turn off the oil heater!
Simply attempting to start an engine like this without the oil being hot will cause it to self destruct--instantly--most likely the crankshaft will break.
So, if you have an application where you stress the oil heavily, then is is better for you and for your car to add an oil cooler with thermostat and keep the xW-30 or xW-20 oils in the crankcase. "
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I'd put the tomei thing back in the box and return it.
you may have read this post before, I lifted it from somewhere, not particularly relevant but interesting nevertheless
I copied this off another forum where I asked if a thinner oil wouldn't be better for a modern performance car, even one used on the track. Since I found it so interesting here it is in total.
"It is not the thickness of the oil that matters, it is the viscosity (e.g. resistance to flow) with is completely different than SAE weight (which is a target band of viscosities at a given oil temperature.)
Your engine is designed for a particular viscosity range. Say 20cSt down to 2.5cSt.
There is a minimum viscosity where wear accelerates and it become impossible for the engine to survive the 120K miles government mandate for emission controls. Any viscosity above this minimum will allow your engine to lead a nice long life. Most modern engines can live a nice long life as long as the actual viscosity remains above 2.5cSt. Since few engines pull heavy loads all the time, the manufactures target about 10cSt of oil viscosity for the normal operating condition. This is a thick 20W or a thin 30W oil.
At the other end of the viscosity spectrum, there is a maximum viscosity above which the oil pump cannot push enough oil to keep the various bearings lubricated. Here is a regimine where overly thick oils will actually hurt your engine. Viscosities above 1000cSt provide marginal lubrication.
No oil is thin enough at startup, even in the 100dF heat of Texas summers! And until your oil gets up to 100dC (212dF) it is too thick. But there is another factor, until the oil gets hot, the antiwear package is not working all that well. So, manufactures design the oil system to reach operating temperature fairly rapidly (5 to 20 minutes).
So at normal operating conditions (10cSt at 100dC) the oiling system has plenty of margin (above the 2.5cSt minimum). Now tow a load, or take the car to the race track, and the oil temperature rises. When a 30W oil reaches about 265dF it also reaches about 3cSt and the margin in the system is removed. Is rapid wear happening, no, but it is not far away from happening. In similar situations a 40W oil will reach that 3cSt at about 280dF and a 50W at 300dF.
So, based on the operating temperature of the oil you choose the oil that remains above the design viscosity of the engine, and you will be happy.
On the other side of the coin, thicker oils allow startup wear to continue far longer until the oil heats up and thins out. So for an application where many short trips are 'de rigor', the thinnest oil possible prolongs the life of the engine.
So, how does one achieve a thin oil under operating conditions and a thick oil under stressful conditions? One uses an oil cooler with a thermostat! Only high dollar sports cars have these kinds of systems *Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini}. Even the venerable Corvette only has the oil cooler on the Z51 option package, and here it has no thermostat to avoid overcooling the oil.
Racing cars (especially endurance racing cars) use thick oils. We have one of these critters in the shop. With a 750 HP SBC (Lola T70 CanAm car), the startup instructions read something like this. 45 minutes becore cranking the engine over, turn on the oil heater. When the oil gets up to 100dC, run the electric oil pump until you have 60 PSI of pressure through the engine for 1 minute. Turn off fuel pumps, turn off both sets of the ignition, crank the enigne over for 20 seconds. Turn on the fuel pumps, prime the velocity stacks with a tablespoon of 110 octane gasoline for each stack. Turn on startup ignition. Attempt to start the engine, but do not crank for more than 5 seconds. If engine catches, spin it up to 2.5K RPMs until it will run cleanly, then reduce speed gradually, until it will hold idle at 1,200 RPMs. Then turn off the oil heater!
Simply attempting to start an engine like this without the oil being hot will cause it to self destruct--instantly--most likely the crankshaft will break.
So, if you have an application where you stress the oil heavily, then is is better for you and for your car to add an oil cooler with thermostat and keep the xW-30 or xW-20 oils in the crankcase. "
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Aug 18, 2008, 07:44 AM
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the best situation for a motor would be hot oil at start up. Anything that delays oil from getting up to temp is not good. A thermostat is one of the best things for an oil system.
I'd put the tomei thing back in the box and return it.
you may have read this post before, I lifted it from somewhere, not particularly relevant but interesting nevertheless
I copied this off another forum where I asked if a thinner oil wouldn't be better for a modern performance car, even one used on the track. Since I found it so interesting here it is in total.
"It is not the thickness of the oil that matters, it is the viscosity (e.g. resistance to flow) with is completely different than SAE weight (which is a target band of viscosities at a given oil temperature.)
Your engine is designed for a particular viscosity range. Say 20cSt down to 2.5cSt.
There is a minimum viscosity where wear accelerates and it become impossible for the engine to survive the 120K miles government mandate for emission controls. Any viscosity above this minimum will allow your engine to lead a nice long life. Most modern engines can live a nice long life as long as the actual viscosity remains above 2.5cSt. Since few engines pull heavy loads all the time, the manufactures target about 10cSt of oil viscosity for the normal operating condition. This is a thick 20W or a thin 30W oil.
At the other end of the viscosity spectrum, there is a maximum viscosity above which the oil pump cannot push enough oil to keep the various bearings lubricated. Here is a regimine where overly thick oils will actually hurt your engine. Viscosities above 1000cSt provide marginal lubrication.
No oil is thin enough at startup, even in the 100dF heat of Texas summers! And until your oil gets up to 100dC (212dF) it is too thick. But there is another factor, until the oil gets hot, the antiwear package is not working all that well. So, manufactures design the oil system to reach operating temperature fairly rapidly (5 to 20 minutes).
So at normal operating conditions (10cSt at 100dC) the oiling system has plenty of margin (above the 2.5cSt minimum). Now tow a load, or take the car to the race track, and the oil temperature rises. When a 30W oil reaches about 265dF it also reaches about 3cSt and the margin in the system is removed. Is rapid wear happening, no, but it is not far away from happening. In similar situations a 40W oil will reach that 3cSt at about 280dF and a 50W at 300dF.
So, based on the operating temperature of the oil you choose the oil that remains above the design viscosity of the engine, and you will be happy.
On the other side of the coin, thicker oils allow startup wear to continue far longer until the oil heats up and thins out. So for an application where many short trips are 'de rigor', the thinnest oil possible prolongs the life of the engine.
So, how does one achieve a thin oil under operating conditions and a thick oil under stressful conditions? One uses an oil cooler with a thermostat! Only high dollar sports cars have these kinds of systems *Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini}. Even the venerable Corvette only has the oil cooler on the Z51 option package, and here it has no thermostat to avoid overcooling the oil.
Racing cars (especially endurance racing cars) use thick oils. We have one of these critters in the shop. With a 750 HP SBC (Lola T70 CanAm car), the startup instructions read something like this. 45 minutes becore cranking the engine over, turn on the oil heater. When the oil gets up to 100dC, run the electric oil pump until you have 60 PSI of pressure through the engine for 1 minute. Turn off fuel pumps, turn off both sets of the ignition, crank the enigne over for 20 seconds. Turn on the fuel pumps, prime the velocity stacks with a tablespoon of 110 octane gasoline for each stack. Turn on startup ignition. Attempt to start the engine, but do not crank for more than 5 seconds. If engine catches, spin it up to 2.5K RPMs until it will run cleanly, then reduce speed gradually, until it will hold idle at 1,200 RPMs. Then turn off the oil heater!
Simply attempting to start an engine like this without the oil being hot will cause it to self destruct--instantly--most likely the crankshaft will break.
So, if you have an application where you stress the oil heavily, then is is better for you and for your car to add an oil cooler with thermostat and keep the xW-30 or xW-20 oils in the crankcase. "
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I'd put the tomei thing back in the box and return it.
you may have read this post before, I lifted it from somewhere, not particularly relevant but interesting nevertheless
I copied this off another forum where I asked if a thinner oil wouldn't be better for a modern performance car, even one used on the track. Since I found it so interesting here it is in total.
"It is not the thickness of the oil that matters, it is the viscosity (e.g. resistance to flow) with is completely different than SAE weight (which is a target band of viscosities at a given oil temperature.)
Your engine is designed for a particular viscosity range. Say 20cSt down to 2.5cSt.
There is a minimum viscosity where wear accelerates and it become impossible for the engine to survive the 120K miles government mandate for emission controls. Any viscosity above this minimum will allow your engine to lead a nice long life. Most modern engines can live a nice long life as long as the actual viscosity remains above 2.5cSt. Since few engines pull heavy loads all the time, the manufactures target about 10cSt of oil viscosity for the normal operating condition. This is a thick 20W or a thin 30W oil.
At the other end of the viscosity spectrum, there is a maximum viscosity above which the oil pump cannot push enough oil to keep the various bearings lubricated. Here is a regimine where overly thick oils will actually hurt your engine. Viscosities above 1000cSt provide marginal lubrication.
No oil is thin enough at startup, even in the 100dF heat of Texas summers! And until your oil gets up to 100dC (212dF) it is too thick. But there is another factor, until the oil gets hot, the antiwear package is not working all that well. So, manufactures design the oil system to reach operating temperature fairly rapidly (5 to 20 minutes).
So at normal operating conditions (10cSt at 100dC) the oiling system has plenty of margin (above the 2.5cSt minimum). Now tow a load, or take the car to the race track, and the oil temperature rises. When a 30W oil reaches about 265dF it also reaches about 3cSt and the margin in the system is removed. Is rapid wear happening, no, but it is not far away from happening. In similar situations a 40W oil will reach that 3cSt at about 280dF and a 50W at 300dF.
So, based on the operating temperature of the oil you choose the oil that remains above the design viscosity of the engine, and you will be happy.
On the other side of the coin, thicker oils allow startup wear to continue far longer until the oil heats up and thins out. So for an application where many short trips are 'de rigor', the thinnest oil possible prolongs the life of the engine.
So, how does one achieve a thin oil under operating conditions and a thick oil under stressful conditions? One uses an oil cooler with a thermostat! Only high dollar sports cars have these kinds of systems *Ferrari, Porsche, Lamborghini}. Even the venerable Corvette only has the oil cooler on the Z51 option package, and here it has no thermostat to avoid overcooling the oil.
Racing cars (especially endurance racing cars) use thick oils. We have one of these critters in the shop. With a 750 HP SBC (Lola T70 CanAm car), the startup instructions read something like this. 45 minutes becore cranking the engine over, turn on the oil heater. When the oil gets up to 100dC, run the electric oil pump until you have 60 PSI of pressure through the engine for 1 minute. Turn off fuel pumps, turn off both sets of the ignition, crank the enigne over for 20 seconds. Turn on the fuel pumps, prime the velocity stacks with a tablespoon of 110 octane gasoline for each stack. Turn on startup ignition. Attempt to start the engine, but do not crank for more than 5 seconds. If engine catches, spin it up to 2.5K RPMs until it will run cleanly, then reduce speed gradually, until it will hold idle at 1,200 RPMs. Then turn off the oil heater!
Simply attempting to start an engine like this without the oil being hot will cause it to self destruct--instantly--most likely the crankshaft will break.
So, if you have an application where you stress the oil heavily, then is is better for you and for your car to add an oil cooler with thermostat and keep the xW-30 or xW-20 oils in the crankcase. "
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That is somewhat interesting reading..
I don't have the Tomei thermostat though, I came across it while browsing Lancershop's site, and happened to have the housing and thermostat on the kitchen table (
), and started to ponder about it while pounding some Bombay Sapphire. (Another )*If* the above is true, I wonder why Tomei would design such a thing, especially since their market is primarily street cars.
Nov 26, 2012, 04:28 PM
#6
Bumping this up, can't post a thread yet but need a stock oil thermostat since my car is running at 140-160 degrees right now! Attempted to search Mitsubishiparts.com and Google etc but can't find the stock one, maybe ill have to grab an HKS low temp one? Anyone confirm this is a 5 min job? Guy said he had his engines apart while doing it on this thread...
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Mar 20, 2013, 08:24 AM
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Bumping this up, can't post a thread yet but need a stock oil thermostat since my car is running at 140-160 degrees right now! Attempted to search Mitsubishiparts.com and Google etc but can't find the stock one, maybe ill have to grab an HKS low temp one? Anyone confirm this is a 5 min job? Guy said he had his engines apart while doing it on this thread...
Mar 20, 2013, 08:48 AM
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I would just keep the oem oil tstat in...Just because someone sells something doesnt mean its good or helps, its just profit for them. I cant say much cuz when the original motor blew the ex owner took out the old cooler since now theres metallic bearing glitter in there and been driving it since, Buschur gives the OK to use no cooler but i wouldnt do anything he says just cuz he said it, like many people on here. I would like to put an oil cooler back in it tho whenbi can especially since its a daily, when it is running
Mar 20, 2013, 10:09 AM
#11
Now, I know some of you are going to talk about warm up times and ambient air temperatures (Winter/summer etc). For someone like me who lives in Charleston, SC, it is hot most of the year. I am also very disciplined (As I have a remote starter on the car) of letting the car warm up before I drive it. I used to live in Buffalo, NY so I had the remote starter to melt the snow, now I use it to cool the car before driving (A/C). 99.99% of the time, the car is/has been runnning for around 4-5 minutes before it even moves, so warm up times don't really affect me.
From experience: I had that thermostat go bad on my car. I'm not that far away in NC. In winter, there was no issues with warm up, I'm pretty good about doing that. It got up to temp fine. But why wouldn't it, there is no airflow. What would happen once I started driving in winter, was my oil temp would drop back down too low.
All I'm getting at is, forget about warm-up. Think about just cruising. The faster i drove, the colder my oil got.
EDIT: Did i jsut respond to a 2008 OP? I feel like I just got rick-rolled
Jan 17, 2016, 05:47 AM
#14
For anyone coming across this old thread via Google search, like I did, read this thread to get a better understanding of how the thermostat works
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/709375-amazing-oil-cooler-delete-kits.html
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/evo-engine-turbo-drivetrain/709375-amazing-oil-cooler-delete-kits.html
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Biggiesacks (Apr 30, 2018)
Jan 1, 2021, 08:27 AM
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Stock oil cooler thermostat part number
Providing this info in case anyone comes across this thread looking for the stock oil cooler thermostat. I had to go to the dealer to find this part number, not easy to find.
Stock oil cooler thermostat is part number: MD356695, MI-Valve, Eng oil cooler bypass
I think it's seen as an oil cooler bypass valve.
Stock oil cooler thermostat is part number: MD356695, MI-Valve, Eng oil cooler bypass
I think it's seen as an oil cooler bypass valve.
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