Cam Damage! - PICS
Mar 11, 2009, 07:11 PM
#93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAD EVO
The issues are only related to the IX Mivec cam correct?
No, as stated the issue is related to the 2004/2005 cams produced as 1st batch and were recalled shortly after.
They were called V1, then V2 were made differently and are not supposed to do that. The specs remained the same. They quit making them before the S series came for both 8 and 9. I would not worry about the current cams unless care wasn't taken when installing.
Clarification: My cams are NOT GSC S2's they are old GSC 272's from 2005, probably some of the first sets that GSC released for the 4g63. The S2's are being made by a new manufacturer so this particular failure should not be tied to the S2's, only the old original GSC 272's.
Are you sure?
Originally Posted by CAD EVO
The issues are only related to the IX Mivec cam correct?
No, as stated the issue is related to the 2004/2005 cams produced as 1st batch and were recalled shortly after.
They were called V1, then V2 were made differently and are not supposed to do that. The specs remained the same. They quit making them before the S series came for both 8 and 9. I would not worry about the current cams unless care wasn't taken when installing.
Clarification: My cams are NOT GSC S2's they are old GSC 272's from 2005, probably some of the first sets that GSC released for the 4g63. The S2's are being made by a new manufacturer so this particular failure should not be tied to the S2's, only the old original GSC 272's.
Are you sure?
Mar 11, 2009, 07:44 PM
#94
Good to here your in the clear so far + a brand new set of S2's
.
I would replace the lifters, roller arms, timing belts, water pump, alternator, assy belt, and perhaps idlers and tensioner (manditory) and whatever the new S2's require. I would also flush the entire sump/oil circulation system with something recommended (I don't know - kerosene?) and follow FSM for installing lifters and cams. Take your time to get it right.
As far as the other problem with the mivec cam, seems to be happening with other cams too:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...m-snapped.html
. I would replace the lifters, roller arms, timing belts, water pump, alternator, assy belt, and perhaps idlers and tensioner (manditory) and whatever the new S2's require. I would also flush the entire sump/oil circulation system with something recommended (I don't know - kerosene?) and follow FSM for installing lifters and cams. Take your time to get it right.
As far as the other problem with the mivec cam, seems to be happening with other cams too:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...m-snapped.html
I feel so bad for these guys, I thought I had it bad. But catastrophic failure like that makes me feel lucky to still have my motor. It's hard to imagine loosing a fully built motor over a KNOWN MANUFACTUERS DEFECT! 
But back on topic:
I am in the process of ordering upgraded timing belt/balance belt/accessory belt/new oil pump w/ seals/ timing belt adjuster/timing belt pulley/and balance shaft tensioner.
I inquired about the rollers and after discussing with Greg@GSC and my engine builder at JAM, they advise that if the rollers are not flatspotted/dinged up and still roll freely, that they will be OK for reuse. Apparently the rollers are made from a much harder metal than the cams and they are tough little bastards. Greg @ GSC said he's had engines threw cams at 10k+ on the strip and they were able to just put the rollers back on there and reuse.
I was out at my buddies garage last night working on the car. We were able to remove the accessory belt, idler pulley, and water pump pulley, by removing the motor mount and pivoting the engine up and down slightly with a jack and wood block holding it up from the oil pan.
We got stuck on the crank pulley bolt though. Even our impact wrench couldn't budge that dude.
So we are going to borrow a heavy duty piece rated at 600+ft/lbs and attempt it again later. I also had the oil filter cut open and it looks very very clean. I found like 3 tiny flakes of metal in there total. I think I was lucky and the cam disintegrated in big chunks that were caught in the oil pickup mesh. I also have a sample of my oil being analyzed at the oil lab as we speak.In the meantime, my buddy is taking the oil pan and sump and all that to his dads race engine shop and hes gonna clean it all up for me and straighten out and clean up the pan for remounting. Also I plan to flush the motor with some sort of cheap motor oil when we complete the build. If you guys have any suggestions/experience with that sort of flushing of oil passages, lemme know!
Mar 11, 2009, 11:19 PM
#95
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Mar 12, 2009, 06:53 AM
#96
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In regards to apparent 'material failures' on the CLOSING ramps-
What is happening is valve toss over the nose, the rocker arm roller is leaving the surface and then coming down at an angle, the outer edge digs in leaving a dent at the outer edges of the surface the roller contacts, the outer edge of the contact patch on the cam. This can also be accompanied by some tracking marks on the base circle from valve bounce.
To prevent this from happening-
DO NOT sit on the &$&$&^%(@!! rev limiter forever like an idiot. Shift the ^&%$@&$!! already!
Use the recommended spring kit for your intended use and follow the recommended rev limit.
It will not hurt anything to use MORE spring than recommended.
If there is a true material problem it usually shows up by even wear on the nose of the cam and sometimes the opening flank where peak accel is encountered, the two areas where the highest pressures occur.
What is happening is valve toss over the nose, the rocker arm roller is leaving the surface and then coming down at an angle, the outer edge digs in leaving a dent at the outer edges of the surface the roller contacts, the outer edge of the contact patch on the cam. This can also be accompanied by some tracking marks on the base circle from valve bounce.
To prevent this from happening-
DO NOT sit on the &$&$&^%(@!! rev limiter forever like an idiot. Shift the ^&%$@&$!! already!
Use the recommended spring kit for your intended use and follow the recommended rev limit.
It will not hurt anything to use MORE spring than recommended.
If there is a true material problem it usually shows up by even wear on the nose of the cam and sometimes the opening flank where peak accel is encountered, the two areas where the highest pressures occur.
Mar 12, 2009, 07:30 AM
#97
In regards to apparent 'material failures' on the CLOSING ramps-
What is happening is valve toss over the nose, the rocker arm roller is leaving the surface and then coming down at an angle, the outer edge digs in leaving a dent at the outer edges of the surface the roller contacts, the outer edge of the contact patch on the cam. This can also be accompanied by some tracking marks on the base circle from valve bounce.
To prevent this from happening-
DO NOT sit on the &$&$&^%(@!! rev limiter forever like an idiot. Shift the ^&%$@&$!! already!
Use the recommended spring kit for your intended use and follow the recommended rev limit.
It will not hurt anything to use MORE spring than recommended.
If there is a true material problem it usually shows up by even wear on the nose of the cam and sometimes the opening flank where peak accel is encountered, the two areas where the highest pressures occur.
What is happening is valve toss over the nose, the rocker arm roller is leaving the surface and then coming down at an angle, the outer edge digs in leaving a dent at the outer edges of the surface the roller contacts, the outer edge of the contact patch on the cam. This can also be accompanied by some tracking marks on the base circle from valve bounce.
To prevent this from happening-
DO NOT sit on the &$&$&^%(@!! rev limiter forever like an idiot. Shift the ^&%$@&$!! already!
Use the recommended spring kit for your intended use and follow the recommended rev limit.
It will not hurt anything to use MORE spring than recommended.
If there is a true material problem it usually shows up by even wear on the nose of the cam and sometimes the opening flank where peak accel is encountered, the two areas where the highest pressures occur.
Yes, what you are saying does make sense. It definitely looks like the damaged has been done by smashing the roller down on the intake close ramp. The thing is, I drive my car like an old lady 99.9% of the time it is below 3k rpm. Why? because I live in small town and most of my drives don't give the car enough time to reach operating temps before running any boost.
The car has never been launched in its life, never been drag raced in its life, and never once taken above 7000rpm. I could could count on my fingers the number of times it has been at 7000rpm in the last year. Even with a fully built stroker and upgraded turbo pushing 400whp for nearly 40k miles I'm still running the stock clutch for christs sake!
I was running the GSC 272's with JAM spec titanium dual springs and retainers and feel that especially given how easy this car has it compared to so many Evo's that are just ragged on nonstop, all signs point to a hardware issue, not a user caused issue. Also, the manufacturing defect of incorrect lobe hardening was known and explained to me by Greg@GSC. It's not just my rampant speculation
Mar 13, 2009, 10:20 AM
#98
HaHa, I remember that little bastard when I did my belts. Had a 4' extension while beating the end with a sledge hammer before it broke free, the bearings must have been thinking it was knocking from the shock. That was a year ago and my back still hurts from it
Mar 13, 2009, 10:25 AM
#99
lol!
In related sad news, the heavy duty compressed air impact wrench failed as well
so the next step is to borrow an even heftier impact wrench 800+ftlbs this time. Come onnnnn big money!!!
If that fails, I might just have to just bit the bullet and get a huge breaker bar on it, hit stick a jack stand under the bar and fire up the starter motor!
Last edited by ktk; Mar 13, 2009 at 10:31 AM.
Mar 13, 2009, 10:35 AM
#100
lol!
In related sad news, the heavy duty compressed air impact wrench failed as well
so the next step is to borrow an even heftier impact wrench 800+ftlbs this time. Come onnnnn big money!!!
If that fails, I might just have to just bit the bullet and get a huge breaker bar on it, hit stick a jack stand under the bar and hit the starter motor!
In related sad news, the heavy duty compressed air impact wrench failed as well
so the next step is to borrow an even heftier impact wrench 800+ftlbs this time. Come onnnnn big money!!!
If that fails, I might just have to just bit the bullet and get a huge breaker bar on it, hit stick a jack stand under the bar and hit the starter motor!
) to help if the car falls when your exerting 1200lbs of forced on it.Dremmle it off man
Mar 15, 2009, 11:11 AM
#102
Nah, just order the sprocket from the parts dept and remove it as a dentist would. Will save you from potential bearing or seal damage, pain and suffering, and whatever your co-pay is. Might be able to get some strong pain killers though (oxy type) to help if the car falls when your exerting 1200lbs of forced on it.
Dremmle it off man
) to help if the car falls when your exerting 1200lbs of forced on it.Dremmle it off man
Eh? I'm not sure wot u mean? Kut off the crank pulley bolt!??
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