Wazmunstr - My transmission rebuild thread
Jan 24, 2011, 09:16 AM
#1
Wazmunstr - My transmission rebuild thread
Rebuild-ish.
I decided to create a new thread and compile all the information I have gathered since I started this quest. Links to another thread are at the end of this post for reference. I asked the wrong question, so I wanted to make sure it was easy for future searches in case someone else has the same issue.
This first video I am posting is what ended up happening to the used transmission I purchased after a 600+ mile trip. A terrible sound that no one here seemed to have ever heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHGlsebPjjs
After a few months of horrible weather and no garage, I finally got the transmission out and apart and this is what the inside looked like:
All the gears look great. All the synchros look great as well, and initially even the bearings.
So this morning I finally figured out a way to pull both shafts out and the center diff at the same time. This next video is what I found. You may have to listen very closely because it sounds very rough, unlike the other bearings. I also noticed that the seals that protect the actual ball bearings are not there unlike the other bearing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxjvMc_S6g
Since it is apart, I might as well replace all the bearings, just in case. But that bearing is done for sure. What's odd is it spins, rough, but it spins. But before I took it apart, the input shaft did not spin at all. I also noticed that the output shaft does not sit flush at the bottom so I had to slightly lift it so all the gears could align. Is that normal? I'm guessing so since that's not where the problem is.
I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction for transmission parts for my evo. I am going to try the dealership first but they may not know wtf I am wanting. I also need to find out what I need to use to seal the case halves back together. There was no gasket on any of it.
UPDATE 01.31.2011
So I got the bearing out, and new one back on. It was very simple actually. the most difficult part was removing the clip that holds it in place. I ended up stabbing my finger in the process. If you notice in the next picture, you'll see the pits in the bearing. Very frustrating that's what was causing the noise.
And here it is back on:
In the process of pulling this transmission out and apart I noticed a lot of nuts and bolts and little things that were rusty or just worn so I decided to just replace it all while it's out.
I put the transmission back together but it is still extremely difficult to spin the input shaft. I noticed on the FSM on step 37, the input shaft does not have a washer on either end but it did when I pulled mine apart. My guess is so the inside of the bearing is not flush up against the sides and allows the outside of the bearing to spin freely. Is this what is causing it to not spin? I'm gonna call up Jack's or someone else to verify if these washers are supposed to be there or not.
UPDATE: 02.01.2011
I figured out why I have been having an issue with the input shaft being impossible to spin. It ended up being one of the shims between the casing and bearing of the input shaft. Both sides have one, but one of them is way too thick. I had to read the fsm a few times over to figure out what they were talking about, but I ended up just placing just one shim on one side, leaving the other one out, and tightened the tranny back together and it worked. I checked for play a few different ways and there wasn't any. that doesn't mean there won't be any when it's all put together though. so I worried that I will have an issue in the future, so I hoping jack's, shep, or tre can answer that specific question. you guys have been very helpful but noone seems to know what I am talking about or could possibly answer that lol. anyways, here's a video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkEzG0bRqjs
UPDATE: 02.05.2011
The transmission is finally back in the car! The transmission felt really smooth and I could spin it without using a death grip. I got some advice from another member on here, and apparently the transmission was rebuilt before by an idiot that used too many shims. that's why it did not want to spin freely. I've been outside since 10am this morning putting that thing in the car (pain in my ***.) Unfortunately I won't be able to drive the car for a few more days. I am replacing some nuts and bolts that are just worn and I'd like to do it right the first time. I am placing a list of parts I replaced at the bottom of this posting because a part or two are actually updated, and others just to make sure things are smooth.
UPDATE: 02.19.11
I have been driving the Evo for about a week now. So far so good! Clutch chatter is getting louder. I had to adjust the clutch pedal so it engages a little higher, because of second gear grind. It grinds sometimes, not always. It did not fix it. It's just a notchy transmission. The transmission is noisy and clunky as hell, too! Nature of the beast I guess. Thank you everyone for your help! I'm excited to have my car running! I've owned it since September, and only drive it twice before it went down for most of the winter. New threads for turbo rebuild, coming soon
.
UPDATE: 08.19.11
It's been six months to the day, not on purpose lol, since my last update. The tranny still feels the same! Nothing wierd, just the same sounds like it's falling apart lol. I've had other issues with it like my exhaust falling off one of the hangers and rattling the cross member. I am about to change out the fluids all around the drivetrain, twice a year should be acceptable! I think the reason why it sounds like everything is so loose is because of the soild mount cross member. It also makes it super loud in the car. The previous owner installed it but I am thinking of going back to stock it's getting annoying. I will continue to update this thread over time just for future reference! I should mention my second gear grind still occurs, but not often. I think I need to either replace the clutch fluid or bleed it again. If that doesn't work it could just be the slave cylinder. I dunno. It could just be the transmission but what's odd is it hasn't gotten worse at all. It doesn't bother me though, like it said it happens every so often depending on how I shift.
Reference thread(s):
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ay-normal.html
List of parts replaced:
- Neutral Return Spring
- Reverse Idler Gear Shaft Bolt (UPDATED, no longer Torx)
- Under Cover Bolts (rusty)
- Lower Arm Ball Joint Bolts (both sides, one was effed in the removal process)
- Transmission Motor Mount studs, and nuts (rusty!)
- Clutch Release Cylinder bolts (both bolts don't match?)
- Bolts for bar that crosses the cross member (name?), they didn't match either!
- Transfer Case bolt, the super long one was missing!
I decided to create a new thread and compile all the information I have gathered since I started this quest. Links to another thread are at the end of this post for reference. I asked the wrong question, so I wanted to make sure it was easy for future searches in case someone else has the same issue.
This first video I am posting is what ended up happening to the used transmission I purchased after a 600+ mile trip. A terrible sound that no one here seemed to have ever heard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHGlsebPjjs
After a few months of horrible weather and no garage, I finally got the transmission out and apart and this is what the inside looked like:
All the gears look great. All the synchros look great as well, and initially even the bearings.
So this morning I finally figured out a way to pull both shafts out and the center diff at the same time. This next video is what I found. You may have to listen very closely because it sounds very rough, unlike the other bearings. I also noticed that the seals that protect the actual ball bearings are not there unlike the other bearing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGxjvMc_S6g
Since it is apart, I might as well replace all the bearings, just in case. But that bearing is done for sure. What's odd is it spins, rough, but it spins. But before I took it apart, the input shaft did not spin at all. I also noticed that the output shaft does not sit flush at the bottom so I had to slightly lift it so all the gears could align. Is that normal? I'm guessing so since that's not where the problem is.
I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction for transmission parts for my evo. I am going to try the dealership first but they may not know wtf I am wanting. I also need to find out what I need to use to seal the case halves back together. There was no gasket on any of it.
UPDATE 01.31.2011
So I got the bearing out, and new one back on. It was very simple actually. the most difficult part was removing the clip that holds it in place. I ended up stabbing my finger in the process. If you notice in the next picture, you'll see the pits in the bearing. Very frustrating that's what was causing the noise.
And here it is back on:
In the process of pulling this transmission out and apart I noticed a lot of nuts and bolts and little things that were rusty or just worn so I decided to just replace it all while it's out.
I put the transmission back together but it is still extremely difficult to spin the input shaft. I noticed on the FSM on step 37, the input shaft does not have a washer on either end but it did when I pulled mine apart. My guess is so the inside of the bearing is not flush up against the sides and allows the outside of the bearing to spin freely. Is this what is causing it to not spin? I'm gonna call up Jack's or someone else to verify if these washers are supposed to be there or not.
UPDATE: 02.01.2011
I figured out why I have been having an issue with the input shaft being impossible to spin. It ended up being one of the shims between the casing and bearing of the input shaft. Both sides have one, but one of them is way too thick. I had to read the fsm a few times over to figure out what they were talking about, but I ended up just placing just one shim on one side, leaving the other one out, and tightened the tranny back together and it worked. I checked for play a few different ways and there wasn't any. that doesn't mean there won't be any when it's all put together though. so I worried that I will have an issue in the future, so I hoping jack's, shep, or tre can answer that specific question. you guys have been very helpful but noone seems to know what I am talking about or could possibly answer that lol. anyways, here's a video of it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkEzG0bRqjs
UPDATE: 02.05.2011
The transmission is finally back in the car! The transmission felt really smooth and I could spin it without using a death grip. I got some advice from another member on here, and apparently the transmission was rebuilt before by an idiot that used too many shims. that's why it did not want to spin freely. I've been outside since 10am this morning putting that thing in the car (pain in my ***.) Unfortunately I won't be able to drive the car for a few more days. I am replacing some nuts and bolts that are just worn and I'd like to do it right the first time. I am placing a list of parts I replaced at the bottom of this posting because a part or two are actually updated, and others just to make sure things are smooth.
UPDATE: 02.19.11
I have been driving the Evo for about a week now. So far so good! Clutch chatter is getting louder. I had to adjust the clutch pedal so it engages a little higher, because of second gear grind. It grinds sometimes, not always. It did not fix it. It's just a notchy transmission. The transmission is noisy and clunky as hell, too! Nature of the beast I guess. Thank you everyone for your help! I'm excited to have my car running! I've owned it since September, and only drive it twice before it went down for most of the winter. New threads for turbo rebuild, coming soon
.UPDATE: 08.19.11
It's been six months to the day, not on purpose lol, since my last update. The tranny still feels the same! Nothing wierd, just the same sounds like it's falling apart lol. I've had other issues with it like my exhaust falling off one of the hangers and rattling the cross member. I am about to change out the fluids all around the drivetrain, twice a year should be acceptable! I think the reason why it sounds like everything is so loose is because of the soild mount cross member. It also makes it super loud in the car. The previous owner installed it but I am thinking of going back to stock it's getting annoying. I will continue to update this thread over time just for future reference!
I should mention my second gear grind still occurs, but not often. I think I need to either replace the clutch fluid or bleed it again. If that doesn't work it could just be the slave cylinder. I dunno. It could just be the transmission but what's odd is it hasn't gotten worse at all. It doesn't bother me though, like it said it happens every so often depending on how I shift.Reference thread(s):
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ay-normal.html
List of parts replaced:
- Neutral Return Spring
- Reverse Idler Gear Shaft Bolt (UPDATED, no longer Torx)
- Under Cover Bolts (rusty)
- Lower Arm Ball Joint Bolts (both sides, one was effed in the removal process)
- Transmission Motor Mount studs, and nuts (rusty!)
- Clutch Release Cylinder bolts (both bolts don't match?)
- Bolts for bar that crosses the cross member (name?), they didn't match either!
- Transfer Case bolt, the super long one was missing!
Last edited by wazmunstr; Aug 19, 2011 at 08:38 AM. Reason: Update.
Jan 24, 2011, 03:54 PM
#4
Evolving Member
The input shaft front bearing is easily destroyed by an not well balanced Clutch disk or an not perfect flat flywheel.
due to vibration, the ball bearing getting load out of normal operation, so the ***** make small "pits " in their rails. You will feel that when rotating the bearing without load applied ( set the input shaft assembly onto the table, clutch side upwards. then turn it by hand, you will feel that it sticks sometimes.)
Ball bearings are NOT supposed to get forces in both directions together with vibration.
due to vibration, the ball bearing getting load out of normal operation, so the ***** make small "pits " in their rails. You will feel that when rotating the bearing without load applied ( set the input shaft assembly onto the table, clutch side upwards. then turn it by hand, you will feel that it sticks sometimes.)
Ball bearings are NOT supposed to get forces in both directions together with vibration.
Jan 24, 2011, 07:02 PM
#6
I purchased the EXEDY Racing Flywheel when I had the transmission installed along with an OEM Exedy clutch kit. It's a little bit lighter than stock, the flywheel is. I never asked if he turned it so it would be as flat as possible. I may put the 6-puck back in since it still had a lot of bite left. Should I put the factory flywheel back in, have it turned or should I use the Exedy and have it turned? I read some reviews of people just sticking with the factory. Any input on this would be awesome!
tapered needle bearing for the input shaft would be amazing, I'll call them about it tomorrow.
Also, Hondabond HT? Anyone disagree with this?
tapered needle bearing for the input shaft would be amazing, I'll call them about it tomorrow.
Also, Hondabond HT? Anyone disagree with this?
Jan 25, 2011, 03:13 AM
#7
Evolving Member
if you have the option to get an dial gauge together with an magnetic bracket, it would be best to check the Flywheel for flatness / wobble. If these trouble started after the install of the clutch, its most likely that these parts have caused the fail.
I had issues with the exedy 6 pucks on some 6spd Gearboxes, but i dont now if it is related.( same failure, front input shaft bearing )
The bearing can be also destroyed by clutch shatter, which happens more often with cerametallic puck disks then with organic ones.
So, its hard to advice you sitting 5000 mls away from you.
Using an turned / grinded OEM Flywheel would be a first bet for solving the issue.
I dont like lightened flywheels at all, most of the time the quality is low.
I had issues with the exedy 6 pucks on some 6spd Gearboxes, but i dont now if it is related.( same failure, front input shaft bearing )
The bearing can be also destroyed by clutch shatter, which happens more often with cerametallic puck disks then with organic ones.
So, its hard to advice you sitting 5000 mls away from you.
Using an turned / grinded OEM Flywheel would be a first bet for solving the issue.
I dont like lightened flywheels at all, most of the time the quality is low.
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Jan 25, 2011, 07:20 AM
#9
I'm thinking the same thing, and just putting the oem flywheel back in. I'm still worried about an unbalanced disk though and I'm sure that's nothing I can do about it.
will do, siceclipse. any advice I can get would help. I'm actually calling jack's as I type. I'm hoping the needle bearing is something I can just purchase from them.
will do, siceclipse. any advice I can get would help. I'm actually calling jack's as I type. I'm hoping the needle bearing is something I can just purchase from them.
Jan 25, 2011, 03:19 PM
#11
So I called up Jack's, and they only do tapered/needle style input shaft bearings to their rebuilt transmissions. The tools I would need to complete the job properly, I don't have. So I just ordered the bearing from them ($15 cheaper than the dealership wanted!) 99% of all evo's are running the stock bearing anyways, I should be fine.
Amsoil is on it's way as well, I liked how it performed before the bearing blew. I purchased Hondabond HT, and I am having the oem flywheel turned tomorrow morning. It's still up in the air if I should stick with this clutch or go back to the 6 puck I had.
Any clue on how much of a pain in the *** this bearing will be to remove and press the new one on?
Also, before this happened, 5th gear and reverse were really weird to come out of. I'm used to pulling on the shifter and letting it go and it going to neutral, on the se-r at least. I have to guide it to neutral and make sure it is in neutral. Is this a fairly normal thing for these transmissions? I was thinking maybe replace the neutral return spring and it should help.
Amsoil is on it's way as well, I liked how it performed before the bearing blew. I purchased Hondabond HT, and I am having the oem flywheel turned tomorrow morning. It's still up in the air if I should stick with this clutch or go back to the 6 puck I had.
Any clue on how much of a pain in the *** this bearing will be to remove and press the new one on?
Also, before this happened, 5th gear and reverse were really weird to come out of. I'm used to pulling on the shifter and letting it go and it going to neutral, on the se-r at least. I have to guide it to neutral and make sure it is in neutral. Is this a fairly normal thing for these transmissions? I was thinking maybe replace the neutral return spring and it should help.
Last edited by wazmunstr; Jan 25, 2011 at 03:43 PM.
Jan 31, 2011, 11:19 AM
#12
Can anyone verify if there are supposed to be shims in these locations:
between the bearings and housing on both ends. they look like really wide and thin washers. I'm having issues with the input shaft not spinning!
Edit: yes there is.
between the bearings and housing on both ends. they look like really wide and thin washers. I'm having issues with the input shaft not spinning!
Edit: yes there is.
Last edited by wazmunstr; Feb 1, 2011 at 12:00 PM.
