Manual boost controller or Electronic/ECU boost control? Which one?
Feb 21, 2011, 10:30 AM
#31
Here is a good thread on the topic - https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-debate-2.html
Here is my post in that thread
Here is my post in that thread
This is the post I post when there is a MBC vs ECU-boost thread.
ECU boost isnt for everyone. Tuning ECU boost can be kinda complex and the end user may not know how to lower and raise there boost if they need to (like if they add parts, and boost starts spiking and/or oscillating. OR if they need to lower boost for some reason)
Also, ECU boost isnt cheaper. To have proper ECU boost you need:
- A 3 port solenoid
- A MAP sensor
Then you also have to:
-Mod the ROM for the MAP sensor
-Mod the ROM for PSI based boost.
And last you have to tune it (which take a good amount of time more then a MBC).
To some people thats a lot of work compared to the install, set & forget style of a MBC. Also, the cost of a 3 port and MAP sensor is more expensive then a MBC.
Yes w/ ECU boost you will be able too hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and you will/can make about an extra 10-15HP&TQ in that area.
But to some people that 10-15 HP&TQ up top just isnt worth the hassle of ECU boost.
Also there is a handful of ways to get a MBC to hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and gain that same 10-15 HP&TQ.
Yes, there is other benefits of ECU boost, like being able to switch boost levels/profiles when switching maps. Also there is the stealth-ness of it.
But still, for some people, a MBC is just fine.
ECU boost isnt for everyone. Tuning ECU boost can be kinda complex and the end user may not know how to lower and raise there boost if they need to (like if they add parts, and boost starts spiking and/or oscillating. OR if they need to lower boost for some reason)
Also, ECU boost isnt cheaper. To have proper ECU boost you need:
- A 3 port solenoid
- A MAP sensor
Then you also have to:
-Mod the ROM for the MAP sensor
-Mod the ROM for PSI based boost.
And last you have to tune it (which take a good amount of time more then a MBC).
To some people thats a lot of work compared to the install, set & forget style of a MBC. Also, the cost of a 3 port and MAP sensor is more expensive then a MBC.
Yes w/ ECU boost you will be able too hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and you will/can make about an extra 10-15HP&TQ in that area.
But to some people that 10-15 HP&TQ up top just isnt worth the hassle of ECU boost.
Also there is a handful of ways to get a MBC to hold more boost from 5Krpm-redline and gain that same 10-15 HP&TQ.
Yes, there is other benefits of ECU boost, like being able to switch boost levels/profiles when switching maps. Also there is the stealth-ness of it.
But still, for some people, a MBC is just fine.
Mar 4, 2011, 05:15 AM
#33
If you value simplicity just get a manual boost controller, which is nothing more than a bleeder valve. I have AEM in my car and didn't want to have to carry around a laptop every time I wanted to adjust the boost, so manual for me works just fine.
Mar 4, 2011, 06:51 AM
#34
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ECU controlled boost. I had the HKS EVC VI and that **** was hell to dial in. ECU controller boost. Set it and forget it. No one really messes with boost without tuning it and your arent going to retune every weekend unless you own a shop and even then.
Mar 5, 2011, 07:23 AM
#38
Evolved Member
I've heard a lot of people say the Perrin MBC is better than the Hallman because of how it controls boost.
http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/63
Heck, it must be good because Buschur copied it.
https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...ae9970168be749
There was just a recent thread by Buschur showing the increase from a Hallman to the Perrin copy.
Just wanted to add that I've had my Hallman over 4 years now and have never had a problem. Thinking about going to the Perrin.
http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/show/63
Heck, it must be good because Buschur copied it.
https://secure.buschurracing.com/cat...ae9970168be749
There was just a recent thread by Buschur showing the increase from a Hallman to the Perrin copy.
Just wanted to add that I've had my Hallman over 4 years now and have never had a problem. Thinking about going to the Perrin.
Mar 5, 2011, 08:13 AM
#39
electronic boost control is great, especially on these cars where the turbo's spike up, then lose boost untill redline, with ebc you can dial out that initial spike and then have the boost hold rock solid untill redline...
the drawbacks of ebc is:
its harder to get setup initially
effected more by the weather, and when your using the stock ecu to control boost and also setup a boost cut for certain requirements it means the end user has to know how to adjust it
pros of ebc:
easy to use... and thats about it
if you have your ecu flashed then i would 100% go with the ebc and buy yourself a tactrix cable so incase you ever have to modify the boost tables you can do it yourself
the drawbacks of ebc is:
its harder to get setup initially
effected more by the weather, and when your using the stock ecu to control boost and also setup a boost cut for certain requirements it means the end user has to know how to adjust it
pros of ebc:
easy to use... and thats about it
if you have your ecu flashed then i would 100% go with the ebc and buy yourself a tactrix cable so incase you ever have to modify the boost tables you can do it yourself
Mar 5, 2011, 11:06 AM
#40
There is a lot out here on evom in regards to ways of controlling boost and which have the pro/cons. They all have pro/cons!
MBC - Hallman - Personally the best MBC on the market. The cheapest, and easiest to tune/control boost.
EBC - TruBoost - The TruBoost is a MBC, just electronic... The truboost is a bit better than a mbc because you can mess with the spring pressure which will help spool/topend. The EBC is very convenient but a bit harder to use than a standard MBC. Having the EBC in the cabin makes it easy to change boost on the fly. Not all EBCs are true EBC... keep that in mind when you see anything under $400. Like the truboost you can't change wgdc based off rpm or gear or any of the fancy stuff that really makes the EBC shine...
ECU Base Boost - Practically like a fancy EBC but a batch to tune if you don't know what you are doing and not easy to change on the fly.
You will notice that everyone has a different opinion.
If I was to make a list on what controls boost the best on a 1-4 scale, I would say.
1. HKS EVC VI (Fancy EBC)
2. ECU Base Boost Control
3. TruBoost (EBC that is practically a MBC)
4. Hallman Pro (MBC)
If I was to make a list on which boost controller are the most convenient on a 1-4 scale, I would say.
1. TruBoost (EBC that is practically a MBC)
2. HKS EVC VI (Fancy EBC)
3. Hallman Pro (MBC)
4. ECU Base Boost Control
Hope this kinda helps. When you define best you have to say best for what? They all have pro/cons
Mikey
MBC - Hallman - Personally the best MBC on the market. The cheapest, and easiest to tune/control boost.
EBC - TruBoost - The TruBoost is a MBC, just electronic... The truboost is a bit better than a mbc because you can mess with the spring pressure which will help spool/topend. The EBC is very convenient but a bit harder to use than a standard MBC. Having the EBC in the cabin makes it easy to change boost on the fly. Not all EBCs are true EBC... keep that in mind when you see anything under $400. Like the truboost you can't change wgdc based off rpm or gear or any of the fancy stuff that really makes the EBC shine...
ECU Base Boost - Practically like a fancy EBC but a batch to tune if you don't know what you are doing and not easy to change on the fly.
You will notice that everyone has a different opinion.
If I was to make a list on what controls boost the best on a 1-4 scale, I would say.
1. HKS EVC VI (Fancy EBC)
2. ECU Base Boost Control
3. TruBoost (EBC that is practically a MBC)
4. Hallman Pro (MBC)
If I was to make a list on which boost controller are the most convenient on a 1-4 scale, I would say.
1. TruBoost (EBC that is practically a MBC)
2. HKS EVC VI (Fancy EBC)
3. Hallman Pro (MBC)
4. ECU Base Boost Control
Hope this kinda helps. When you define best you have to say best for what? They all have pro/cons
Mikey
Mar 5, 2011, 11:50 AM
#41
both are good with the right combination.. if the person wants to run say 28psi and he has a 25psi wga a manual will do just as much as the 3 port as far as maintaining a solid boost level across the board.
really depends how much you want to go over the wastegate pressure.. i have a hallman in my car but based on results ive seen from dozens of customers using the 3 port i will be switching my manual for a 3 port eventually.. there is quite a huge advantage in being able to control wgdc and having the luxury of avoiding tire spin or surge.. plus all the extra safety features available for us thanks to tephra and all the other ecu coders.
if you have a stock block and you're looking for serious power you want a 3 port (ecu boost).. so you can manipulate the boost curve.. i did a guy on a fp green hta he wanted 500whp with minimal torque as possible.. he already had a perrin 3 port so we used that.. i was able to control the boost curve so easily with wgdc where he only had around 20psi downlow then 30psi uptop and it held extremely well.. shifted the torque curve to the far right and took all the stress/initial early torque blow from the engine.
Pro's with 3 port (ecu boost):
drop boost on knock
drop boost on afr out of range
full control the boost curve with WGDC
dual map boost profiles
gear based boost control
boost error correction on the fly
and the list just goes on and on..
Cons:
harder to setup
makes a clicking noise (barely audible)
slightly slower spoolup (barely)
effected by weather easier then manual (can be corrected with MAF IAT wgdc corr)
================================================
Hallman pro (in car).
Pro's
Easy to setup
Easy to adjust
Holds boost decent on a proper setup
Con's:
No boost curve control
No ecu gear based boost
No weather correction
Fuel cut safety feature built into ecu
Rapid early torque spikes due to lack of boost control
Boost falls off harder
===============================================
even though the hallman has so many cons and cant do so many things, i still like it because it does hold a steady boost curve.. i have a FP 25psi WGA (internal) preloaded to 30PSI and when i spike to 39psi i can maintain around 34-35psi at redline which is not to bad at all for a stock frame turbo.
================================================
that is my personal opinion and view on a mbc vs ecu boost.
really depends how much you want to go over the wastegate pressure.. i have a hallman in my car but based on results ive seen from dozens of customers using the 3 port i will be switching my manual for a 3 port eventually.. there is quite a huge advantage in being able to control wgdc and having the luxury of avoiding tire spin or surge.. plus all the extra safety features available for us thanks to tephra and all the other ecu coders.
if you have a stock block and you're looking for serious power you want a 3 port (ecu boost).. so you can manipulate the boost curve.. i did a guy on a fp green hta he wanted 500whp with minimal torque as possible.. he already had a perrin 3 port so we used that.. i was able to control the boost curve so easily with wgdc where he only had around 20psi downlow then 30psi uptop and it held extremely well.. shifted the torque curve to the far right and took all the stress/initial early torque blow from the engine.
Pro's with 3 port (ecu boost):
drop boost on knock
drop boost on afr out of range
full control the boost curve with WGDC
dual map boost profiles
gear based boost control
boost error correction on the fly
and the list just goes on and on..
Cons:
harder to setup
makes a clicking noise (barely audible)
slightly slower spoolup (barely)
effected by weather easier then manual (can be corrected with MAF IAT wgdc corr)
================================================
Hallman pro (in car).
Pro's
Easy to setup
Easy to adjust
Holds boost decent on a proper setup
Con's:
No boost curve control
No ecu gear based boost
No weather correction
Fuel cut safety feature built into ecu
Rapid early torque spikes due to lack of boost control
Boost falls off harder
===============================================
even though the hallman has so many cons and cant do so many things, i still like it because it does hold a steady boost curve.. i have a FP 25psi WGA (internal) preloaded to 30PSI and when i spike to 39psi i can maintain around 34-35psi at redline which is not to bad at all for a stock frame turbo.
================================================
that is my personal opinion and view on a mbc vs ecu boost.
Last edited by tscompusa2; Mar 5, 2011 at 02:29 PM. Reason: missed something
Mar 5, 2011, 01:57 PM
#43
Hallman pro (in car).
Pro's
Easy to setup
Easy to adjust
Holds boost decent on a proper setup
Con's:
No boost curve control
No ecu gear based boost
No weather correction
No safety features at all Rapid early torque spikes due to lack of boost control
Boost falls off harder
Also, If you want to go 3port, hit me up. I have an extra GM.
Mar 5, 2011, 02:27 PM
#44
Last edited by tscompusa2; Mar 5, 2011 at 02:29 PM.
Mar 5, 2011, 02:51 PM
#45
ya i forgot to add that.. ill put that under MBC. ill let you know when i need it. im gonna max out the hallman then switch over to see exactly how much the hallman sucks verse a good boost control. i was actually gonna go with perrin based on how well it worked on my one customers car. but im down to test more then one
BTW, I just went to ECU boost, but then went back to my MBC, as the MBC had more "solid" curves and spikes less, even with perfect ECU boost settings.
Last edited by Boosted Tuning; Mar 5, 2011 at 03:16 PM.