Boost Solutions

iTrader: (18)

Hi guys,

sorry for chiming in so late. I just saw the post ( 14 pages ) about the AEM bash.

We have box #19 in our car. We still do not have the 1600cc injectors in( waiting on the intake manifold), but for teh two times we have run 17 psi on our HUGE turbo, we did not experience any ignition problems.

Now, when you guys are modding a car, there is one rule: You gotta pay to play.
You have to consider spending money on the ignition system if running high boost on the upgraded turbo. The formula for power is air+ fuel + spark = power. You cannot just slap a turbo and not do injectors. Or put injectors and turbo, but max out the factory ignition system.

Now more about the AEM.

AEM is really the standalone to go with, guys. We as a vendor have experince with Autronic, but we have not done motec or mirotech.
Number one thing: IT IS REALLY hard to work out the issue if the company is in Autralia, and they do not have a GOOD representative here. Al is completely correct about the intake temp tables. Some work, and some do not, I have experienced it on 2 cars. And then, are you guys gonna start calling Autralia? No. Emails? The emails going to teh US dealers do not get returned, unless they are emails to spend money. The emails to Autralia do get returned, but it is a lot easier and quicker to deal with a US company like AEM.
To us, the tow best customer service companies are AEM and RPS ( clutches). They are always tehre to help, no questiosn asked. Now, if a screwdriver went in the intake to teh turbo, AEM will not refund the ECU. But if there is an ignition problem, they will overnite it to you. Image the overnight Fedex costs on so many ECUS... You gotta agree with me here that not many manufacturers will do that.
About the Microtech system, Ai agree that it works good on a Mazda.
But if you go on www.supraforums.com and ask about the AEM, you will se ethat all Supras love the AEM.
So it really boils down to the preferences. Wiring an Autronic, Motec, or Microtech is not a easy job. a lot of you guys do not want to pay $500 for ignition system, but you will hav eto pay over $1K just on wiring teh other standalone.

Start-up calibrations: Al, I hear you about your Evo6 map. At least you got one. I never got a map on the 99 Eclipse 4G63 calibartion, a it has ben two months. So I did it myself. AEM will work with you on teh calibration. And their forum is the best place to find info, calibration files, etc.

Cold start: you guys have to define "cold" first. There are so many varaibles, that if you want teh best startup, you have to play with it. Manu people obvoiusly think that just plugging the AEM will do it. Yes, it does, if you run teh MAP sensor. Car RUNS a lot better than stock on the AMF sensor. Going to a MAP sesnor, you are sacrificing time to tune it for the extra power gained from not having teh AMF.

Here is our view:

Pesto: something went after your filter, and hit the compressor wheel. There is NO WAy the HKS turbo is faulty. That is why people pay $$$$ for HKS vs something generic. HKS rules!!!
Imagine a small screw falling in teh intake tract. Your compressor wheel at idle spins very fast and at boost it reaches 100K+ rpms. That is what happened. About being a test mule, all I can say is that the AEM system was tested on several cars before.

Al: with your setup, you can easily blow out teh spark onhigh boost. So going to a 3240 and a ign box seems liek teh way to go:-)
JR from AEM: you guys rule! Thanks for the great product. We know that if there are issues, you are THERE in a TIMELY manner to fix them.

To the rest of you that consider any standalone: here is why the AEM is better:

- excellent customer support
- separate forum/database of info
- NOS control - $500 value
- boost control - $500 value
- MAP sensor - $1000 value
- traction control - $1000 value
- datalogging - $priceless( only the ones of you that have spends hours on teh dyno at $150-$200/hour will appreciate teh datalogging capabilites of teh system
- automapping - $1000 value
- FREE digital dash ( Motecs digital dash is a $2000+)

So, for all of you that can AFFORD $10-12K on a full Motec system ( with the tuning and install), go Motec.
For the rest, AEM is the way to go!!!!!!!!!

George

PS: we will keep everybody updated how the ignition system on our car goes, because that T51R SPL blows enough air to blow away not only the spark, but the exhaust manifold off the engine

perfworks

We use AEM ECU's and many other products. And have no complaints. Have stated this on countless threads.
We just got a box from AEM today. It has the third prototype from them with the ignition "fix". I believe that Bushur and SFP have the first two. Hopefully after some testing from everyone they will again release the version ASAP. For everyone. We feel confident that there are no issues that cannot be resolved. Customer service at AEM is top notch. The guys get busy sometimes but they do get back to you as soon as they can. Jaime , a tech at AEM has helped us every time we needed it.
We use them exclusively and hope to continue the relationship into the future. If any company will stand behind their product these guys will. So if anyone goes by hear say rather than taking it from those that use their systems day in and day out then they are foolish.
You cant expect to double the available power from your cars' engine and expect it to work like stock. There will be upgrades that will have to take place. Just like the fuel enrichment process with adding larger injectors, higher flowing fuel pump, FMIC, exhaust etc. So does the ignition have to be upgraded past its stock level of performance.
There is alot to modifying your stock car and getting crazy numbers out of it. Just slapping parts on like some aftermarket companies want you to do isnt going to cut it.
My 2 1/2 cents

Boost solutions, great post and keep up the good work bud.

DynoFlash

iTrader: (91)

I agree with you 100% that Autronic is a total and compelete nightmare to deal with I would not wish that on my worst enemy !

Its real funny when the guys in Australia start telling you the stuff the guys in the US are telling you to do is wrong

I took a $550 loss just to dump that unit off my hands and I wount touch another - no matter how much they pay me

AEM is a great unit - just needs the spark fixed

Stevenich

"Number one thing: IT IS REALLY hard to work out the issue if the company is in Autralia, and they do not have a GOOD representative here. Al is completely correct about the intake temp tables. Some work, and some do not, I have experienced it on 2 cars. And then, are you guys gonna start calling Autralia? No. Emails? The emails going to teh US dealers do not get returned, unless they are emails to spend money. The emails to Autralia do get returned, but it is a lot easier and quicker to deal with a US company like AEM. "

I haved worked with George on both of his Autronic installs. I have answered his calls on weekends, and even at 10:00pm at night. To say that I am not"Good" at support is rediculous.
There is a lot of frustration that sets in when a internet sales based company tries to install a product that is more than just a plug in.

I have often seen posts about questions about our product before the customer even calls me. So the problem is bashed on the net before the vendor even gets a chance to answer it.

To install any standalone requires knowledge of a lot of different things. To change a fuel or timing map that is already mapped for you does not make you a tuner or a standalone installer.

There is a reason why companies won't sell "over the counter " to people. Installing, tuning, supporting a standalone is very time consuming. The PNP boards are nice but that only eliminates one of the problems.

Everyone who reads these forums please understand: Not everyone who posts, or expresses an opinion about a product, knows everything about that product. All companies have issues when they first release a product. To bash them on the net and then demand a fix later leaves a bad taste in the mouth. Post after you have spoken with the vendors and you aren't getting any help. That would be a problem. When you post about certain issues more than likely it is something you don't know about the product.

To post issues on weekends or Holidays, and get everyone worked up over nothing, just wait till a business day and call the company.

I have spoken with a lot of vendors on this forum and they all agree that this is a problem. Please think twice before posting something bad about products.

Steve Nichols

rayhall

There are no cold start or air temp estimation table problems. The default values work with 95% of engine setups, and if they need adjusting you just do exactly that, it is after all a programmable fuel injection. We have many customers in Norway, Finland and Sweden who have no cold start or air temperature problems even at -20 C ( -0 F) or lower temperatures.

Forums can ruin a company reputation with post like this. Both Steve and myself work very hard to promote the Autronic product by being open and honest with people, and giving the best support we can. Please understand that with George and AL we have given both of them a lot of technical support to get their cars up and running. Far more then is required by others, and in response we get this type of criticism on a public forum where everything posted is generally taken a gospel.

One of the rules of this forum not to bash vendors without just cause. Both Steve Nichols and myself believe this is the case with these posts. If the forum moderators would like proof of all the support given and correspondence sent, then we are happy to supply this information to show just how hard we have tried the help these people. We can also provide any amount of emails from customers who have Autronic systems and have none of the problems they talk about.


Ray Hall.

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Steve and Ray,

Maybe you should have some sort of prequalifcation test for your new dealers. It also sits unwell with me that misinformed words can so easily damage a good products reputation. Glad to see you guys straightening things out on the forum!

Cheers,
Shiv

5StarSuzuki

Keep in mind you are in Australia. While the primary audience of evolutionm.net is in the US. Different time zones and expensive phone calls equals difficulty making contact. You may have great service, but if the AEM has near identical features (pluses and minuses for both units) why on earth would I purchase a unit with service thats 5000 miles away?

You have to understand that this is a forum to post one's viewpoints. Whether you agree with them or not, thus you can post your counter-opposing viewpoint.

EDIT: Shiv edited his post to take out his name calling of Al and George "internet tuners". I just thought that was abit humorous.

Stevenich

I am located in Lexington, KY, Ray hall is in Australia

shiv@vishnu

iTrader: (20)

Steve Nichols, who is the US importer of Autronic, is based out of the US. In Kentucky to be precise. Same time zone as you east coasters, in fact. The point that Steve and Ray are trying to make, if I understand them correctly, is that while everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not everyone's opinions are based upon fact. Therefore, these opinions should be qualified before presented to a public forum such as this. In the end, it is very hard for the average buyer to separate fact from fiction (which is usually based upon a vendors marketing motives and/or their inability to use a given system as intended.

My 2c,
shiv

porcupine

This is so typical of american thinking saying their products is far superior to others. While it may be true that this forum is a U.S based forum dedicated to the Evo8 it seems, it's still no excuse for bashing the non-U.S competitors products. If the AEM is so great, then so be it. Don't bash the others (it's such poor taste).

DynoKing

Why do people have to cut wires to get something to work? Sounds like some back woods **** to me. If you bought a PC and I told you to open it up and cut some wires what would you think?

DynoKing

That's why we drive cars from Japan right?

Stevenich

The boards were shipped to one of our dealers and needed an update. Some people just couldn't wait and took the board home insisting they could do the mod. Sorry you fell that way.

robi

iTrader: (24)

Hey you post ****** I'm the guy who bought Also Al's board.... second gen customer... (AKA I BOUGHT A USED BOARD) I've posted questions and e-mails to both Ray and Steve been answered....! (THEY HAVE AND WILL MAKE NO MONEY ON MY ORIGONAL PURCHASE OF AN AUTRONICS PnP BOARD) Autronics or their importer OWES ME ZERO customer support. Steve e-mailed me when he saw I was on-line today, asked me to call him, gave me his telephone # and even answered. OK I know it's only Christmas so Steve probably has extra time to spend... He probably has a family that understands... Companies live and die by their reputations. I bought Autronics because all my Rally friends swear by (NOT AT) them. (you know the guys racing in mud, water, ice...cold start anyone..and desert environments. Also ALL standalone EMS systems for our American EVOs are STILL IN BETA TEST MODE!!!!! if you want to be an early adopter you are a de-facto test mule. Some are further than others some have better tuners out of the gate all do somethings better/cheaper than others. Do your research compare your options and remember that someones comments ANYones comments with an axe to grind must in some wise be self serving. Also someone selling a competing product falls under the same shadow.

5StarSuzuki

Porcupine: Please reread my post. I never stated that the AEM was far superior or inferior. Nor did I bash the Autotronics. I'm just not going to purchase a product manufactured (and its engineers are located) in Australia; unless it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than a competing product manufactured in the US. This is not the case with the autotronic, because there are a dozen other solutions that (in the right hands) will produce identical results.

Keep in mind. My full time job is studying religious studies, political science and philosophy. So, I typically try to do all the mods on my car with a trial and error approach. AEM has a great manual and a WHOLE book on setting up an EFI system. So for people, like myself its ideal.