mberenis

iTrader: (5)

I've been working on this for a while now and I have yet to post anything. I've been digging through the forums and I've been able to manage so far. I thought I would post this thread in case anyone else finds there way into these troubles.

Problem: Intake valve chatter on driver's side (tcase side for non usdm) from 2k rpm and upward. Not just a tick, but a VERY loud chatter.

When it occurred: 150 miles later after cam install. Car was warmed up, and immediately after I did the p0300 periphery bits patch to disable the misfire code this chatter appeared. However, this could have been pure coincidence as I undid the patch and the problem is still present.

Here's a video of the infamous bloody limp home:

First my car:

2006 Mitsu Evo IX
28 psi
jester tune
stock turbo
720cc injectors
walbro255
full bolt on (except fmic)
83k miles
mobile 1 full synth 10w30
Tampa, Florida

I decided it would be a good idea to install BC 272/272 cams. I have never done a cam install before, but I read through the procedures and did everything to a T (timing joke ar ar). I zip tied the pulleys, set it to top dead center, etc. Religiously checked to make sure I was always at TDC throughout the whole install every time I touched anything related. I did not bleed the lifters as I was told this is not necessary b/c i'm not moving the cam lobes i'm just placing them right where the old ones went. I did not change lifters, springs, etc.

I cranked it over by hand after the install about ten times and there was no ticking, clinking, etc. Everything was smooth and still at TDC. After turning it by hand, i unplugged coils and did a dry start to pressurize oil. Then I checked TDC one more time, it was fine; so i started the car. Started right up with no problems, just the typical cam lobing sound and the lifter tick. I thought this was normal from what I read. Great right!

So I drive it around for a couple of days, do a couple of pulls, etc. Nothing crazy, no actual racing just checking it out mechanically. I had the ticking noise checked out by a mitsu guy and he said it was normal. A day latter, the chatter previously described occurred.

The sound to me sounds like a stuck lifter. Once the sound reared its ugly ******* face, i pulled off the valve cover and inspected it immediately. No signs of anything wrong - no chunks of metal, no bent valves, nothing. Everything looked acceptable. I pressed down on the lifters while still in place and they were all pressurized. I was not low on oil, and timing was still ok. However, intake side jumped half a tooth toward the rear of the car.

So here is my plan as of now: I'm going to remove the intake cam, check & bleed all of the lifters, make sure I set the mivec gear inside of the cam all the way back (did not do this the first time), and then try again. To me, it really sounds like extra space between the lifter and rocker due to a stuck lifter. I am not sure though.

Please post your thoughts on this and if you have any help to share, it would be appreciated. I will continue to post from here on out until the problem is resolved.

evo9what?

Bleeding the lifters should fix it

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

I got the lifters out, and wouldn't you know!! Right where the sound was coming from, there is about the same amount of play that is identical in length to the change in lift from stock to the bc 272.

So do i bleed them or should I just buy all new ones? Some of the others were iffy, but a lot of them were still holding strong.

I'm 99% sure that the lifter was the issue so I'm going forward with that. I also replaced spark plugs too b/c mine were a little dirty; doubt that has anything to do with this but I thought I would post it since I'm doing it.

I saw a set of all new lifters for $100 on maperformance; are these okay? Being they are 100 and a full set of OEM is nearly 500.. i'm a bit concerned about quality. Not trying to get 100k miles out of these though, i barely drive this evo except for to go out and hoon my jollies out.

http://www.maperformance.com/itm-rev...-056-5137.html

dastallion951

I'd buy some no tick lifters....... Considering you have 83k on the car.....or get yourself a 1/2 qt or so of the same oil you use, and follow the how to on here to bleed the lifters.... I did it in a bit over an hour before. Good luck.

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

nice those no tick lifters I've read about them before but didn't realize they were that cost effective. I think I will go with those. Thanks!

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

New lifters, I mean valve lash adjusters* arrive tomorrow. I have the procedure from mitsu right here and I'm going to install them myself. Wish me luck

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

Ok so I installed the zero tick lifters and I did it exactly by the book. I also swapped to brand new spark plugs, the exact same NGK's that were in it to begin with. The lifter install went great and they did get quieter. Quiet enough to let me know the main noise I was hearing wasn't the lifters. There is a much louder noise which I had mistaken for lifters which is still present. Please check out the symptoms and throw some ideas out there. Looking for a quick brainstorm here, thanks.

Bad:
A fast tempo tap, very loud, coming from the upper part of the engine.
It does fluctuate with RPM, comes alive around 1800 RPM and gets silent around 3k.
When at the same RPM:
-If in gear and decelerating, the noise goes away.
-If in neutral or in gear giving the engine throttle, the noise reappears.

So at 2,000 RPM I hear TAP TAP TAP TAP very loud. It is so loud, it is embarrassing. This is only when I give it gas. If I'm idling at idle RPM, the noise is gone. If I'm in gear and decelerating at 2,000 RPM, the noise is gone. If I'm in gear at 2000 RPM and giving it gas, the noise comes back.

The good:
AFR isn't wack
No smoke, funny smells, or leaks
Sounds 100% normal at idle
No metal in the oil pan
Still builds boost and feels strong. If I was deaf, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference or even know anything was wrong. Tach is good, not jumpy.

My possible conclusions:
Rod knock
Piston slap
Wrist pin broken
PCV valve?
----(I've read it can be really noisy, and I put my hand on the valve and I can feel the taps through the tube that comes off the valve cover)
Bent or f'd up valve
---- (Haven't done a compression test yet, but I didn't see any bent valves when I had the valve cover off nor does it burn oil or idle like S)
Mivec gear off


Other than that, I have no idea. I'm taking the car to my buddy's shop on Monday for an official diagnosis. Any input prior to that would be appreciated. Thanks!

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

Did I stump the forum? LOL.

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

I am not an engine builder, but I did build my engine by trial and error. So a bump with an idea.... What you are describing for me so far does indicate the possibility of having jumped timing. Mine jumped when I first started it up, and it was horrendous. Not sure how many teeth, but I had a worse sound. Didn't drive it. When you note that the sound goes away when you decel, it seems like that could be mivec timing related, depending on the mivec map. So that decal are extreme enough values that the ticking or incorrectness of the overlap is masked temporarily.

I guess my first troubleshooting would be to absolutely prove the cams are dead on where they should be. Its hard to hear in the video, but lifters make more of a tick, than the air like sound I hear in your video. I bled the lifters and until the filled up it was ticking craziness. It didn't sound like what you have there.

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

Thank you very much for your input. I really appreciate it!!

So I have a few bits to add to the mystery here.

I did a compression test. Came back, from timing belt side to transfer case side:
180-155-155-180

I did the rod knock test by unplugging one spark plug one by one. Noise is still there regardless of which spark plug I disconnected

From your post, I went and took a look at my Mivec map. Seems the noise starts where the mivec engages and ends where it disengages in the low load RPM column. To a freaking T! That must be it then. Something screwed up and it is off timing. I did some more reading and I did not set the mivec gear back to accommodate for the slide forward until it builds pressure. What is puzzling is that the noise didn't start until 150 miles later. First start after the cam install, it was fine. Then I did the p0300 disable via periphery bits and it started right after that. Undid the patch, and it is still there. Here's a image of my mivec intake advance map.

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

The mivec map looks fine. It may be a little aggressive in the low load, but modifying that is not your issue. I just think its a clue that possibly the advance is mechanically off. I didn't have any trouble with it, but make sure the end cap with the weird swivel pieces on the end of the cam are absolutely correctly oriented. I am forgetting all the names right now because its been a year, but inside the end caps are those washer like pieces.

Can you confirm absolutely that the cam gears line up exactly how they should to the markings?

By the way I don't remember doing anything like this either.

" I did not set the mivec gear back to accommodate for the slide forward until it builds pressure. "

WikdEvo

iTrader: (8)

those compression check numbers seem unusually high, especially for a IX. The service manual states 145 with a minimum of 92 and a variation of no more than 14 PSI

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

thank you. Tomorrow morning we are going to make sure everything is back to TDC and reinstall the intake side cam gear. I will report back on what we find! Thank you for your input.

mberenis

iTrader: (5)

took it to my buddy's shop today and inspected everything. turns out the inner two cylinders have bent valves, thus the 155 psi rating and the rattle is coming from the valves inability to return thanks to the bent valve stem. why it is 180 psi on the others IDK, maybe it has higher compression pistons. I don't know, i just bought the car in sept and it was modified by a previous owner. But next step is redo the head with bigger valves. Put together a nice order with automod central today and am lining up work with the machine shop as we speak. So yeah, it was a bent valve. FML

fireroasted

iTrader: (3)

Bummer, or Yay! New Head!

Either way, you probably want to identify as best you can what caused that. Be careful about assuming it was anything prior, because you said you didn't have the noise until 150 miles after your cam install. So that still speaks to cam belt jumping to me. Maybe the tensioner wasn't set correctly. My point is just that you want to have some confidence you identified the cause so that you don't have any chance of repeating it with a brand new machined head.

In my experience, I would now buy the belt tensioner tool on ebay. I didn't when I did mine, and there are a bunch of reasons it makes getting that right better. Since you are dumping a bunch of money on the head, its just another tool for assembly. I more or less knew what I was doing, and had the engine out of the car, a still F'd it up the first time. Then redid it like 3 times IN the car. If I wasn't so thick I would have bought the gadget tool kit set from ebay for 50 bucks to make it easier, and likely would have only done it once.

Good Luck