HKS 274/278 vs Kelford 272 Vs kelford 280
Nov 29, 2013, 05:32 PM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
HKS 274/278 vs Kelford 272 Vs kelford 280
This has been a subject of debate with some friends, because im triying to get the better combination for my Car.
My Evo is all streetable, im using the weekend to race with some friends. i dont drag race too much.
My combination is:
2.0 long Rod Motor (CP pistons,Manley Connecting Rods,Crower Springs & retainers, Arp bolts,AMS camshaft eliminator kit,etc)
FP BLACK
Carbonetic Tripple Carbon Clutch
AEM EMS 2
FIC 1450 Injectors
Two Walbro in tank
Ported Manifold, Intake,TB
ETC
The thing is i alredy have HKS 274-278, and i thinking to switch to kelford because some friends told me are better than my HKS. (my HKS is the lasted and better model of HKS)
But what do you think is better kelford combinated with my FP Black and my streable use. Kelford 272 or Kelford 280. Or maybe other cams.
I accept all suggest and help you can give me.
Thanks a lot, im sorry for my english.
My Evo is all streetable, im using the weekend to race with some friends. i dont drag race too much.
My combination is:
2.0 long Rod Motor (CP pistons,Manley Connecting Rods,Crower Springs & retainers, Arp bolts,AMS camshaft eliminator kit,etc)
FP BLACK
Carbonetic Tripple Carbon Clutch
AEM EMS 2
FIC 1450 Injectors
Two Walbro in tank
Ported Manifold, Intake,TB
ETC
The thing is i alredy have HKS 274-278, and i thinking to switch to kelford because some friends told me are better than my HKS. (my HKS is the lasted and better model of HKS)
But what do you think is better kelford combinated with my FP Black and my streable use. Kelford 272 or Kelford 280. Or maybe other cams.
I accept all suggest and help you can give me.
Thanks a lot, im sorry for my english.
Nov 29, 2013, 06:18 PM
#2
I have HKS 274/278 cams in one Evo, and GSC S2 in other Evo.
Kelford 272 are somewhat similar to GSC S2, but known to be a bit "less stable" at idle.
Kelford 280 are step beyond.
Fact is that GSC S1 will out power, i.e. make more Torque, than GSC S2 up to 5500rpm: this has been seen in dyno's and has been passed on to me by GSC staff.
I would stack these cams as follows, introducing GSC as sort of a contrasting option:
GSC S1
HKS 274/278
GSC S2
Kelfrod 272
GSC S3
Kelford 280
One way to evaluate cams is to note the Vacuum level at idle.
Stock I believe should be around 19inHG.
With HKS 274/278 its around 12inHg and with restrictive exhaust allow stable idle, or a bit hunting with truly free exhaust (80mm JIC single bullet)
GSC S1 were reported to be 10-13inHg
GSC S2 I measure only 8inHg which makes for somewhat unstable idle
Kelfrod 272 reported about 10inHg
Kelfrod 280 and GSC S3 less, so unstable idle.
The concern is not only unstable idle, but also no benefit from larger cams on stock or smaller stock-frame turbos.
Despite general consensus, including facts provided by knowledgeable cam manufacturers, some have proven that big-cams and small turbos mix: but they were focused on top end power. For DD you need response and smooth operation well below 3000rpm, not power from 7000-8000rpm, since stock redline is 7600 and exceeding 8000rpm is likely not safe in the long run.
In general big cams will progressively show an advantage as you exceed 5500-6000rpm, the rpm range where the cross-over occurs.
Since you show concern for daily utility and mention you occasional drag or track for pleasure, I would not advise compromising everything for 13 seconds of glory: consider how many miles you drive, and than compare that to 13seconds of a 0.2 - 0.3 max advantage that can be achieved by using extreme cams versus moderate cams.
I personally prefer the HKS 274/278 cams over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle, and also low-end torque.
The top end is virtually indistinguishable: since they are two different cars its not easy to compare precisely but if I can draw a parallel, I can feel 15whp at 2000rpm, but I cannot feel difference between 280 and 290whp at 5000rpm, not to say that HKS make less- they feel more or less the same.
Best of luck in your choice
Kelford 272 are somewhat similar to GSC S2, but known to be a bit "less stable" at idle.
Kelford 280 are step beyond.
Fact is that GSC S1 will out power, i.e. make more Torque, than GSC S2 up to 5500rpm: this has been seen in dyno's and has been passed on to me by GSC staff.
I would stack these cams as follows, introducing GSC as sort of a contrasting option:
GSC S1
HKS 274/278
GSC S2
Kelfrod 272
GSC S3
Kelford 280
One way to evaluate cams is to note the Vacuum level at idle.
Stock I believe should be around 19inHG.
With HKS 274/278 its around 12inHg and with restrictive exhaust allow stable idle, or a bit hunting with truly free exhaust (80mm JIC single bullet)
GSC S1 were reported to be 10-13inHg
GSC S2 I measure only 8inHg which makes for somewhat unstable idle
Kelfrod 272 reported about 10inHg
Kelfrod 280 and GSC S3 less, so unstable idle.
The concern is not only unstable idle, but also no benefit from larger cams on stock or smaller stock-frame turbos.
Despite general consensus, including facts provided by knowledgeable cam manufacturers, some have proven that big-cams and small turbos mix: but they were focused on top end power. For DD you need response and smooth operation well below 3000rpm, not power from 7000-8000rpm, since stock redline is 7600 and exceeding 8000rpm is likely not safe in the long run.
In general big cams will progressively show an advantage as you exceed 5500-6000rpm, the rpm range where the cross-over occurs.
Since you show concern for daily utility and mention you occasional drag or track for pleasure, I would not advise compromising everything for 13 seconds of glory: consider how many miles you drive, and than compare that to 13seconds of a 0.2 - 0.3 max advantage that can be achieved by using extreme cams versus moderate cams.
I personally prefer the HKS 274/278 cams over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle, and also low-end torque.
The top end is virtually indistinguishable: since they are two different cars its not easy to compare precisely but if I can draw a parallel, I can feel 15whp at 2000rpm, but I cannot feel difference between 280 and 290whp at 5000rpm, not to say that HKS make less- they feel more or less the same.
Best of luck in your choice
Nov 29, 2013, 09:37 PM
#3
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
According to what you explain.
First, I should not put big cams with my fp black. (stock frame turbo), then i should dismiss the Kelford 280.
Second, In your opinion the kelford 272 is very similar to the GSC S2, the only different between both is the kelford is more "less stable" at idle than GSC. then you can compare the HKS 274/278 with the GSC S2 which you have experience.
Third, According to your experience, You prefer HKS 274/278 over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle , and also low-end torque.
Then, do you think should i stay with my HKS 274-278 combinated with mi FP BLACK>?
First, I should not put big cams with my fp black. (stock frame turbo), then i should dismiss the Kelford 280.
Second, In your opinion the kelford 272 is very similar to the GSC S2, the only different between both is the kelford is more "less stable" at idle than GSC. then you can compare the HKS 274/278 with the GSC S2 which you have experience.
Third, According to your experience, You prefer HKS 274/278 over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle , and also low-end torque.
Then, do you think should i stay with my HKS 274-278 combinated with mi FP BLACK>?
Nov 29, 2013, 09:49 PM
#4
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BTW, I do not remember where, but I read something that compared the hks 274/278 with Kelford 272 and both are similar, because have 11 of lift and produces similars HP (70-80 in compared with stock cams). But the HKS are little better idle and more rev (like 8,800 rev).
And the HKS is more streatable (friendly drive)
The kelford 272 makes like 5 hp more and 5hp torque over hks 274/278.
And the HKS is more streatable (friendly drive)
The kelford 272 makes like 5 hp more and 5hp torque over hks 274/278.
Trending Topics
Nov 30, 2013, 05:37 AM
#8
I have HKS 274/278 cams in one Evo, and GSC S2 in other Evo.
Kelford 272 are somewhat similar to GSC S2, but known to be a bit "less stable" at idle.
Kelford 280 are step beyond.
Fact is that GSC S1 will out power, i.e. make more Torque, than GSC S2 up to 5500rpm: this has been seen in dyno's and has been passed on to me by GSC staff.
I would stack these cams as follows, introducing GSC as sort of a contrasting option:
GSC S1
HKS 274/278
GSC S2
Kelfrod 272
GSC S3
Kelford 280
One way to evaluate cams is to note the Vacuum level at idle.
Stock I believe should be around 19inHG.
With HKS 274/278 its around 12inHg and with restrictive exhaust allow stable idle, or a bit hunting with truly free exhaust (80mm JIC single bullet)
GSC S1 were reported to be 10-13inHg
GSC S2 I measure only 8inHg which makes for somewhat unstable idle
Kelfrod 272 reported about 10inHg
Kelfrod 280 and GSC S3 less, so unstable idle.
The concern is not only unstable idle, but also no benefit from larger cams on stock or smaller stock-frame turbos.
Despite general consensus, including facts provided by knowledgeable cam manufacturers, some have proven that big-cams and small turbos mix: but they were focused on top end power. For DD you need response and smooth operation well below 3000rpm, not power from 7000-8000rpm, since stock redline is 7600 and exceeding 8000rpm is likely not safe in the long run.
In general big cams will progressively show an advantage as you exceed 5500-6000rpm, the rpm range where the cross-over occurs.
Since you show concern for daily utility and mention you occasional drag or track for pleasure, I would not advise compromising everything for 13 seconds of glory: consider how many miles you drive, and than compare that to 13seconds of a 0.2 - 0.3 max advantage that can be achieved by using extreme cams versus moderate cams.
I personally prefer the HKS 274/278 cams over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle, and also low-end torque.
The top end is virtually indistinguishable: since they are two different cars its not easy to compare precisely but if I can draw a parallel, I can feel 15whp at 2000rpm, but I cannot feel difference between 280 and 290whp at 5000rpm, not to say that HKS make less- they feel more or less the same.
Best of luck in your choice
Kelford 272 are somewhat similar to GSC S2, but known to be a bit "less stable" at idle.
Kelford 280 are step beyond.
Fact is that GSC S1 will out power, i.e. make more Torque, than GSC S2 up to 5500rpm: this has been seen in dyno's and has been passed on to me by GSC staff.
I would stack these cams as follows, introducing GSC as sort of a contrasting option:
GSC S1
HKS 274/278
GSC S2
Kelfrod 272
GSC S3
Kelford 280
One way to evaluate cams is to note the Vacuum level at idle.
Stock I believe should be around 19inHG.
With HKS 274/278 its around 12inHg and with restrictive exhaust allow stable idle, or a bit hunting with truly free exhaust (80mm JIC single bullet)
GSC S1 were reported to be 10-13inHg
GSC S2 I measure only 8inHg which makes for somewhat unstable idle
Kelfrod 272 reported about 10inHg
Kelfrod 280 and GSC S3 less, so unstable idle.
The concern is not only unstable idle, but also no benefit from larger cams on stock or smaller stock-frame turbos.
Despite general consensus, including facts provided by knowledgeable cam manufacturers, some have proven that big-cams and small turbos mix: but they were focused on top end power. For DD you need response and smooth operation well below 3000rpm, not power from 7000-8000rpm, since stock redline is 7600 and exceeding 8000rpm is likely not safe in the long run.
In general big cams will progressively show an advantage as you exceed 5500-6000rpm, the rpm range where the cross-over occurs.
Since you show concern for daily utility and mention you occasional drag or track for pleasure, I would not advise compromising everything for 13 seconds of glory: consider how many miles you drive, and than compare that to 13seconds of a 0.2 - 0.3 max advantage that can be achieved by using extreme cams versus moderate cams.
I personally prefer the HKS 274/278 cams over GSC S2, because they are superior at idle, and also low-end torque.
The top end is virtually indistinguishable: since they are two different cars its not easy to compare precisely but if I can draw a parallel, I can feel 15whp at 2000rpm, but I cannot feel difference between 280 and 290whp at 5000rpm, not to say that HKS make less- they feel more or less the same.
Best of luck in your choice
Nice Post...good info. I also have the hks 274/278--there have been a couple of threads on this cam. Whats outlined above is about rt and certainly my view as well. You need to try and get a cam the matches the power band of your turbo that should also match the rpm range of the car if its done correctly. Thinking a cam swap from what you have now would give you more in the upper end and sacrific the lower and mid range to get it. Not worth the expense or trade off in my view for a few more ponies and a shift in power and driveability.
Nov 30, 2013, 06:25 AM
#9
Newbie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Dominican Republic
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, now im thinking the same. Big cams make more power in the upper end but less power in the lower and mid range. Also i will lose the driveability.
Nov 30, 2013, 09:58 AM
#10
With your FP black I think you need all the help you can get, to boost the low end torque.
If you have the HKS, don't waste time and money chasing 5whp, leave the car alone and may consider taking the car to race track and improving your driving skills through practice.
Drag race is 10-12sec
Typical track day consists of 4 or 5 20minute sessions
If you have the HKS, don't waste time and money chasing 5whp, leave the car alone and may consider taking the car to race track and improving your driving skills through practice.
Drag race is 10-12sec
Typical track day consists of 4 or 5 20minute sessions
Nov 30, 2013, 10:29 AM
#11
A note about notion Better:
HKS is works renowned technical partner to industry with glorious past and present in Motorsport and Tuning, and are the official technical realization supply partner of Ralliart-Mitsubishi racing:
Ralliart special race parts are designed in conjunction with Mitsubishi by HKS, and produced mainly through HKS, so if for example you go to Ralliart to purchase new Group N/R4 race rally car it will have an HKS engine, clutch, And much more, and will say so in paperwork and tags on components.
Who else can claim such technical proveness and success, in Mitsubishi aftermarket tuning? Nobody I can think of.
It's OEM quality and more, and any power rebalance is designed in because it makes sense technically. Even HKS 280 cams idle well and perform well in stock Evo, a testament to design, while the 274/278 with 11mm lift are a technical miracle considering aggressive spec with neatly stock like idle quality.
HKS is works renowned technical partner to industry with glorious past and present in Motorsport and Tuning, and are the official technical realization supply partner of Ralliart-Mitsubishi racing:
Ralliart special race parts are designed in conjunction with Mitsubishi by HKS, and produced mainly through HKS, so if for example you go to Ralliart to purchase new Group N/R4 race rally car it will have an HKS engine, clutch, And much more, and will say so in paperwork and tags on components.
Who else can claim such technical proveness and success, in Mitsubishi aftermarket tuning? Nobody I can think of.
It's OEM quality and more, and any power rebalance is designed in because it makes sense technically. Even HKS 280 cams idle well and perform well in stock Evo, a testament to design, while the 274/278 with 11mm lift are a technical miracle considering aggressive spec with neatly stock like idle quality.
Dec 1, 2013, 08:55 PM
#13
Newbie
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Utah
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have Kelford 272s and I have absolutely 0 idling issues.
The only thing I dislike about these cams is they are LOUD in cold weather. Uneducated people think my car is missing. I've never heard the HKS' -- so I really can't reference them.
The only thing I dislike about these cams is they are LOUD in cold weather. Uneducated people think my car is missing. I've never heard the HKS' -- so I really can't reference them.
Last edited by Lag is Free; Dec 1, 2013 at 08:58 PM.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
3bar_dc2
For Sale/WTB - Engine / Drivetrain / Power
7
Aug 6, 2015 10:08 PM
tscompusa
Evo Dyno Tuning / Results
19
Nov 10, 2012 02:44 PM