Driveline Binding
Apr 17, 2014, 12:20 PM
#1
Driveline Binding
I've got a bit of an issue with the driveline binding up in the IX. I'll do my best to describe what's going on...
To start, this car is a bit of an odd duck... It had a 1000hp setup that was parted out, then rebuilt nearly stock, it has a test pipe and coilovers and that's it. I know both the individual who built and then parted it out and the guys who rebuilt it to as it sits and trust all of them. As for relevant components to the issue, the t-case has 43k on it and reportedly have never seen more than stock power. The trans was rebuilt and has 4k on it, and the spiders for the center diff looked fine at that time. The rear diff is factory original with 97k, and was my initial suspect, but the 22k fluid looked fine with little metal on the drain bolt. It was refilled with new Diaqueen LSD.
The car seemed fine up until last Friday night, but I haven't been super happy with the mileage on pump gas so I'm wondering if whatever the issue is has been dragging that down slightly. On Friday, I replaced the brake pads with Hawk HP+, front corners were lifted individually, rear end by the diff (not that it matters but details). I did a U-turn at the end of my street and noticed the driveline binding up. Since then, this is what I have noticed:
The whole driveline locks up with the front wheels turned a notable amount, but not all at once. The lock while driving in circles seems to transfer from front to rear and back, similar to how power does normally through a viscous coupling. This makes me think that the center diff is operating normally and the problem is elsewhere.
It locks both when driving and when just rolling in neutral, if I roll down the driveway with the wheels turned in reverse the car will come to a halt. If I straighten the wheel, it will start rolling normally again. If let stop on an incline with the wheels turned, I get out and push on the car and it will go nowhere.
On a lift, it will not bind no matter what. We had a guy moving each wheel, tried all different speeds, forwards, backwards, combinations, and nothing acted abnormal, so it has to be loaded to exhibit the issue.
There is an occasional clicking noise coming from the front driver's side while turning right, but not left.
Now, knowing that, I'm thinking a front axle or front diff. The driver's axle is out, and has a hole in one boot, but does not actually feel bad. I borrowed one that does feel a bit better and will throw that in tonight. I also have a passenger axle I will try if that doesn't fix it.
I'm hoping it's an axle, and it's possible that's all it is based on the operation of the helical diff, but I'm not holding my breath. Any thoughts? Anyone run into this before?
To start, this car is a bit of an odd duck... It had a 1000hp setup that was parted out, then rebuilt nearly stock, it has a test pipe and coilovers and that's it. I know both the individual who built and then parted it out and the guys who rebuilt it to as it sits and trust all of them. As for relevant components to the issue, the t-case has 43k on it and reportedly have never seen more than stock power. The trans was rebuilt and has 4k on it, and the spiders for the center diff looked fine at that time. The rear diff is factory original with 97k, and was my initial suspect, but the 22k fluid looked fine with little metal on the drain bolt. It was refilled with new Diaqueen LSD.
The car seemed fine up until last Friday night, but I haven't been super happy with the mileage on pump gas so I'm wondering if whatever the issue is has been dragging that down slightly. On Friday, I replaced the brake pads with Hawk HP+, front corners were lifted individually, rear end by the diff (not that it matters but details). I did a U-turn at the end of my street and noticed the driveline binding up. Since then, this is what I have noticed:
The whole driveline locks up with the front wheels turned a notable amount, but not all at once. The lock while driving in circles seems to transfer from front to rear and back, similar to how power does normally through a viscous coupling. This makes me think that the center diff is operating normally and the problem is elsewhere.
It locks both when driving and when just rolling in neutral, if I roll down the driveway with the wheels turned in reverse the car will come to a halt. If I straighten the wheel, it will start rolling normally again. If let stop on an incline with the wheels turned, I get out and push on the car and it will go nowhere.
On a lift, it will not bind no matter what. We had a guy moving each wheel, tried all different speeds, forwards, backwards, combinations, and nothing acted abnormal, so it has to be loaded to exhibit the issue.
There is an occasional clicking noise coming from the front driver's side while turning right, but not left.
Now, knowing that, I'm thinking a front axle or front diff. The driver's axle is out, and has a hole in one boot, but does not actually feel bad. I borrowed one that does feel a bit better and will throw that in tonight. I also have a passenger axle I will try if that doesn't fix it.
I'm hoping it's an axle, and it's possible that's all it is based on the operation of the helical diff, but I'm not holding my breath. Any thoughts? Anyone run into this before?
Apr 17, 2014, 05:45 PM
#2
Front driver's axle didn't fix it. I have a passenger side too that I can try, but I'm wondering if it'll do any good. I got a click out of the rear end backing down out of the driveway, but I don't know if that's a direct result of the issue, a symptom (such as the rear end locking up), or simply a spring on the coilover settling as I roll down the curb.
But regardless I'm starting to suspect the rear end again.
This is really annoying, I'm hoping to do a shakedown on the May 2nd. Any thoughts?
But regardless I'm starting to suspect the rear end again.
This is really annoying, I'm hoping to do a shakedown on the May 2nd. Any thoughts?
Apr 17, 2014, 09:45 PM
#3
clicking while turning right but not left means you have a bad axle... but chances are thats not causing the lock up... contrary to popular believe the center differential is actually in the transmission... and unfortunately for you its the only part that can lock both front and rear wheels... you may have a bad spider or the lash may be out of spec inside the diff... only way to check is pull the trans and tear it down.. while driving forward or backward with the wheels straight the diff turns as an entire unite... when you turn the wheels the spiders spin at different speeds transfering power accordingly. a broken spider or tooth will also cause the issue... on the bright side you can now switch to a cusco 40/60 diff... congrats...
Apr 18, 2014, 10:28 AM
#4
But wouldn't that lock it all up at once? I have not observed myself, but I was told that both the front and rear are locking up, but not at the same time. Also, isn't that something I'd notice while spinning the front and rear ends at different speeds on a lift, even without load?
If the issue exists in the front end, wouldn't the helical diff start transferring power to the locked wheel under the mechanical assumption that it "has traction", causing the other wheel to slow and lock as well? And following that, for the speed difference to transfer through the ACD to the rear end?
I mean, I'm aware of the locations and functions of the individual components but without any obvious indicator of issue location I'm a bit stumped here. If I'm being dumb please tell me.
If the issue exists in the front end, wouldn't the helical diff start transferring power to the locked wheel under the mechanical assumption that it "has traction", causing the other wheel to slow and lock as well? And following that, for the speed difference to transfer through the ACD to the rear end?
I mean, I'm aware of the locations and functions of the individual components but without any obvious indicator of issue location I'm a bit stumped here. If I'm being dumb please tell me.
May 9, 2014, 12:29 PM
#7
We ended up figuring it out, after taking stuff apart multiple times...
The ACD wasn't depressurizing, so even with the vehicle off it was holding pressure in the lines and housing, keeping it locked. How this didn't throw a code, I have no idea, but unplugging the dump and depressurizing the system fixed it. So it's time now for a new ACD solenoid.
The ACD wasn't depressurizing, so even with the vehicle off it was holding pressure in the lines and housing, keeping it locked. How this didn't throw a code, I have no idea, but unplugging the dump and depressurizing the system fixed it. So it's time now for a new ACD solenoid.
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May 11, 2014, 08:53 PM
#9
You, me, my mechanic, and the entire local Evo board.
It's funny, we were so sure it wasn't going to be the ACD because it depressurizes with the car off... Leave it to the high pressure fluid system tech to overlook the possibility of failed pressure control on his own car.
The worst part though is that it destroyed the front diff. So I need ACD parts, I have a new front diff in there, and threw my old Exedy in while it was apart, so it wasn't a horribly wasteful 3 weeks of tearing **** apart, the trans and t-case had to come out anyway.
It's funny, we were so sure it wasn't going to be the ACD because it depressurizes with the car off... Leave it to the high pressure fluid system tech to overlook the possibility of failed pressure control on his own car.
The worst part though is that it destroyed the front diff. So I need ACD parts, I have a new front diff in there, and threw my old Exedy in while it was apart, so it wasn't a horribly wasteful 3 weeks of tearing **** apart, the trans and t-case had to come out anyway.
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