Balance Shaft Elimination Questions
Jan 9, 2017, 03:23 PM
#33
Thank you for the responses fellas, I still would like to hear from you 94 about this matter, it's kinda hard to make the right decision where you hear 50% say they have never had a problem with doing a bs delete, and the other half are the horror stories of doing this mod.
I guess its one of those situations where you pick your poison, Minus I read the post in the link you provided, reading stuff like that makes you wanna keep the shafts in, as it has been stated in this thread they are install for a reason, HARMONICS
I guess its one of those situations where you pick your poison, Minus I read the post in the link you provided, reading stuff like that makes you wanna keep the shafts in, as it has been stated in this thread they are install for a reason, HARMONICS
9 shafts were made a little lighter than 8 shafts. same piston and rod weight. so your assumption falls apart right there.
Last edited by 94AWDcoupe; Jan 9, 2017 at 03:35 PM.
Jan 9, 2017, 08:52 PM
#35
hand polish the bearing races with 800 grit wet paper. that one race looks like silver paint on it? is that a water stain? water stains are never really a problem. just lightly polish high spots off. dont try to make curb side appeal perfect. they just need to measure round. with no high or low spots.
bad balance shafts are when you see the heaviest part of shaft bearing starting to wear. thats when the bearing race is no longer round.
bad balance shafts are when you see the heaviest part of shaft bearing starting to wear. thats when the bearing race is no longer round.
Jan 17, 2017, 07:35 AM
#36
I have a educated question: Is it absolutely necessary to use the kiggly hla after a balance shaft delete has been performed ?
Or is it acceptable to re-install the OEM HLA with the balance shaft deleted ?
Also Mr. 94, what are your thoughts on the English Racing oil pump gear, your opinion please..
Or is it acceptable to re-install the OEM HLA with the balance shaft deleted ?
Also Mr. 94, what are your thoughts on the English Racing oil pump gear, your opinion please..
I have never used the kiggly HLA . But it certainly is a good idea. some jdm early 4g63 engines came with one. I am certain thats where he got the idea to make a billet version. the factory one dumps the extra oil in the head. so the Kiggly HLA is one step better in that sense.
Jan 17, 2017, 12:15 PM
#37
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I highly recommend to keep them in. Those who think because you go aftermarket rods and pistons that it would no longer be affective are again wrong. there are five different weights of balance shafts that I am aware of. I have used them all in my builds. early 4g63, early 4g64, late 4g64, evo 8 and evo 9. i have used the lightest ones in 2.3 stroker motors and they are effective. just because you change the amount of cancellation doesnt mean there is no longer any cancellation.
9 shafts were made a little lighter than 8 shafts. same piston and rod weight. so your assumption falls apart right there.
9 shafts were made a little lighter than 8 shafts. same piston and rod weight. so your assumption falls apart right there.
Jan 17, 2017, 04:08 PM
#38
My questions: Is it a real thing, but such a small deal that it doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things? Or, does it cause failure and people sometimes misdiagnose?
hmmmmmm....
Jan 17, 2017, 04:25 PM
#39
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I'll be honest here, the 6 bolt with bse I didn't even notice a bit of increase in vibration over stock...it has wiseco/eagle and 40k since the rebuild and still has the same compression as built
Nooow the 7 bolt with bse big difference in vibration before to after...wish I had never done the bse on that car.
Nooow the 7 bolt with bse big difference in vibration before to after...wish I had never done the bse on that car.
Jan 17, 2017, 04:31 PM
#40
From what I understand, its a long term thing
Depends on many factors, but may take 20K or more miles before the fretting damage occurs to the crank bearings & other components
Why remove a critical harmonic dampening component that was specifically designed by Mitsu engineers for that purpose
If your build was a true, hard core, racing motor that gets re-built after X passes or every season, then removing them is a performance gain
Depends on many factors, but may take 20K or more miles before the fretting damage occurs to the crank bearings & other components
Why remove a critical harmonic dampening component that was specifically designed by Mitsu engineers for that purpose
If your build was a true, hard core, racing motor that gets re-built after X passes or every season, then removing them is a performance gain
Jan 17, 2017, 04:57 PM
#41
my worst experience was with the 6 bolt motors. they become vibration machines. virtually everything has the ability to vibrate off. had oil filters spin off twice at 80-100mph. not fun. turbo bolts that simply would not stay tight till they were tie wired. and flywheel bolts backing out and having to pull trans to fix it twice as well.
the heavier the piston is the worse the problem is. and the 2.4 is markedly worse over the 2.0.
I also build transmissions and on evo8/9 see huge problems with 5th gear that can only be explained as harmonics vibrating things. local here had 5th gear syncro wear out in 100 miles three times in a row. shep built trans. first two times he was required to send trans back. half the transmissions I take apart have 5th gear completely worn out. including the splines where the gear attaches to the shaft. so expensive to fix. I have see shep trans were he completely fills the threads with red locktight to fight this issue. I fix it by using a good flywheel and leaving the balance shafts in.
I could go on but I am not getting anything here. I cant stand when people to want to gain knowledge. its very aggravating to me,
the heavier the piston is the worse the problem is. and the 2.4 is markedly worse over the 2.0.
I also build transmissions and on evo8/9 see huge problems with 5th gear that can only be explained as harmonics vibrating things. local here had 5th gear syncro wear out in 100 miles three times in a row. shep built trans. first two times he was required to send trans back. half the transmissions I take apart have 5th gear completely worn out. including the splines where the gear attaches to the shaft. so expensive to fix. I have see shep trans were he completely fills the threads with red locktight to fight this issue. I fix it by using a good flywheel and leaving the balance shafts in.
I could go on but I am not getting anything here. I cant stand when people to want to gain knowledge. its very aggravating to me,
Jan 17, 2017, 05:10 PM
#42
From what I understand, its a long term thing
Depends on many factors, but may take 20K or more miles before the fretting damage occurs to the crank bearings & other components
Why remove a critical harmonic dampening component that was specifically designed by Mitsu engineers for that purpose
If your build was a true, hard core, racing motor that gets re-built after X passes or every season, then removing them is a performance gain
Depends on many factors, but may take 20K or more miles before the fretting damage occurs to the crank bearings & other components
Why remove a critical harmonic dampening component that was specifically designed by Mitsu engineers for that purpose
If your build was a true, hard core, racing motor that gets re-built after X passes or every season, then removing them is a performance gain
The Oil pump I bought was new, but had a stubby balance shaft installed. I could not, for the life of me, safely break that sucker loose (I have no vise), so I just put it on. I then left the belt off the rear.
I'd prefer to leave them. I just need a clear lower timing cover so I can check on it from time to time.
Jan 17, 2017, 05:50 PM
#43
Does anyone make a high performance balance shaft belt? How will the balance shaft belt hold up at 10,000 rpm? I would like to keep the balance shafts in the motor. I will be building a 2.0LR with Carillo 156mm Pro-H beam Rods and CP SC7240 Pistons with upgraded pins,
Jan 17, 2017, 08:11 PM
#44
Evolving Member
Thanks 94 for answering the question, don't get pissed off, a lot of us are just starting this journey, you my friend have been there and done that.
I read the majority of your posts and others members as well, I respect you and never met you, the real problem is maybe we are caught in a fantasy !!
We all want this high revving, 15,000 rpm engine, 1500 wheel hp machine, but we also want it to start up with absolutely no problems everyday, and that is where the fantasy ends..
I completely understand where you are coming from, and it boils down to drawing the line.
If you wanna drag race every day, free up rotational mass, dont mind checking for loose nuts and bolts every month, one less thing to worry about going wrong, run the mitsu stubby !
If you want a smooth running engine and don't mind checking and adjusting the balance shaft belt every 15 to 20k, or depending on your driving habits with the car, don't have to check for loose nuts and bolts, changing the oil on time to prevent contamination, run the shafts..
Moral of the story, pick and choose who you wanna be, drag racer revving to the moon every day or a person that just wants reliable horsepower.
And once again no disrespect 94, I value yours, and everybody's opinion on this site, I'm learning a lot great thing about my car here, thanks to all !!
I read the majority of your posts and others members as well, I respect you and never met you, the real problem is maybe we are caught in a fantasy !!
We all want this high revving, 15,000 rpm engine, 1500 wheel hp machine, but we also want it to start up with absolutely no problems everyday, and that is where the fantasy ends..
I completely understand where you are coming from, and it boils down to drawing the line.
If you wanna drag race every day, free up rotational mass, dont mind checking for loose nuts and bolts every month, one less thing to worry about going wrong, run the mitsu stubby !
If you want a smooth running engine and don't mind checking and adjusting the balance shaft belt every 15 to 20k, or depending on your driving habits with the car, don't have to check for loose nuts and bolts, changing the oil on time to prevent contamination, run the shafts..
Moral of the story, pick and choose who you wanna be, drag racer revving to the moon every day or a person that just wants reliable horsepower.
And once again no disrespect 94, I value yours, and everybody's opinion on this site, I'm learning a lot great thing about my car here, thanks to all !!
Jan 17, 2017, 09:04 PM
#45
Thanks 94 for answering the question, don't get pissed off, a lot of us are just starting this journey, you my friend have been there and done that.
I read the majority of your posts and others members as well, I respect you and never met you, the real problem is maybe we are caught in a fantasy !!
We all want this high revving, 15,000 rpm engine, 1500 wheel hp machine, but we also want it to start up with absolutely no problems everyday, and that is where the fantasy ends..
I completely understand where you are coming from, and it boils down to drawing the line.
If you wanna drag race every day, free up rotational mass, dont mind checking for loose nuts and bolts every month, one less thing to worry about going wrong, run the mitsu stubby !
If you want a smooth running engine and don't mind checking and adjusting the balance shaft belt every 15 to 20k, or depending on your driving habits with the car, don't have to check for loose nuts and bolts, changing the oil on time to prevent contamination, run the shafts..
Moral of the story, pick and choose who you wanna be, drag racer revving to the moon every day or a person that just wants reliable horsepower.
And once again no disrespect 94, I value yours, and everybody's opinion on this site, I'm learning a lot great thing about my car here, thanks to all !!
I read the majority of your posts and others members as well, I respect you and never met you, the real problem is maybe we are caught in a fantasy !!
We all want this high revving, 15,000 rpm engine, 1500 wheel hp machine, but we also want it to start up with absolutely no problems everyday, and that is where the fantasy ends..
I completely understand where you are coming from, and it boils down to drawing the line.
If you wanna drag race every day, free up rotational mass, dont mind checking for loose nuts and bolts every month, one less thing to worry about going wrong, run the mitsu stubby !
If you want a smooth running engine and don't mind checking and adjusting the balance shaft belt every 15 to 20k, or depending on your driving habits with the car, don't have to check for loose nuts and bolts, changing the oil on time to prevent contamination, run the shafts..
Moral of the story, pick and choose who you wanna be, drag racer revving to the moon every day or a person that just wants reliable horsepower.
And once again no disrespect 94, I value yours, and everybody's opinion on this site, I'm learning a lot great thing about my car here, thanks to all !!
