can't decide to do balance shaft delete or not
Jul 27, 2015, 06:41 AM
#16
i decided to removed the BS. it's a stock evo 9 long block with 10k miles on it, so the stock BS bearing still look in great shape. i'm also going to put in S2 cams with springs and retainer, and do ARP head bolts also. going to run e85 with stock turbo, so a lot of torque.
Jul 27, 2015, 10:53 AM
#17
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
can't decide to do balance shaft delete or not
I wouldn't bother with GSC race shaft. The stub shaft is an OEM piece that works fine..
Jul 27, 2015, 11:47 PM
#19
I build all my personal engines with balance shafts. I build all customer cars without them. I have not had a balance shaft related failure yet on my engines. I dont really care to have a discussion. from all the threads I have seen on the subject people who push taking them out dont truly know what they are there for in the first place. In short taking them out is certainly one less system to fail. but it does cause a whole assortment of other problems I care not deal with.
as far as reliability they are just as stout as any other component when everything is in proper functioning condition. problem is at first signs of detonation the balance shaft bearings are the first thing to go when the oil gets minor contamination.
as far as reliability they are just as stout as any other component when everything is in proper functioning condition. problem is at first signs of detonation the balance shaft bearings are the first thing to go when the oil gets minor contamination.
I'm trying to figure out right now what I am going to do with my build. I am leaning towards keeping the balance shafts in.
How many people here have a 2.3 with the balance shafts? Curious.
Jul 28, 2015, 01:32 AM
#20
Evolving Member
" A stub shaft allows the oil pump gears to push apart and wear into the aluminum pump. Aluminum that is being worn away will enter the clean oil stream and contaminate the engine bearings. Eventually this can result in the oil pump seizing." This is what AMS has to say about a stub shaft....
Jul 28, 2015, 06:31 AM
#22
I think the engineers had good reason to put them in there and keep harmonics down.
I'm personally going to keep them with my small turbo. With the small MHI housing I'm sure backpressure is elevated at high rpm so things aren't great above 8000rpm anyway. My thoughts are with proper oil/belt/tensioner changes and less then 8000rpm they should last a while.
Now If I was going with a 6262 or larger the BS would be taken out and become paperweights. At that point it would go to 9300rpm like a champ. However the clutch,oil pump and transmission may not like that. At that level everything will have a reduced service life.
I'm personally going to keep them with my small turbo. With the small MHI housing I'm sure backpressure is elevated at high rpm so things aren't great above 8000rpm anyway. My thoughts are with proper oil/belt/tensioner changes and less then 8000rpm they should last a while.
Now If I was going with a 6262 or larger the BS would be taken out and become paperweights. At that point it would go to 9300rpm like a champ. However the clutch,oil pump and transmission may not like that. At that level everything will have a reduced service life.
Jul 28, 2015, 07:44 AM
#24
I have been building 2.3 for my cars for last ten years. the stroker engine needs the shafts more than a 2.0 does. the longer the stroke the heavier the harmonic. with 2.3s bolts back out from the vibration. had oil filter spin off at high speeds couple of times. first time is caused a fire and nearly burnt my fresh built car to the ground.
honda-guy, where did you get that bearing install tool? I need to get one of those. I dont agree the mitsu shafts are poorly designed. sure gears are reliable. but they are noisy.
The following 2 users liked this post by 94AWDcoupe:
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Jul 28, 2015, 08:33 AM
#25
I dont put them in customers cars because if the customer runs his engine with detonation the balance shafts will be the first thing to fail. It would reflect back to me as a poorly built engine.
I have been building 2.3 for my cars for last ten years. the stroker engine needs the shafts more than a 2.0 does. the longer the stroke the heavier the harmonic. with 2.3s bolts back out from the vibration. had oil filter spin off at high speeds couple of times. first time is caused a fire and nearly burnt my fresh built car to the ground.
honda-guy, where did you get that bearing install tool? I need to get one of those. I dont agree the mitsu shafts are poorly designed. sure gears are reliable. but they are noisy.
I have been building 2.3 for my cars for last ten years. the stroker engine needs the shafts more than a 2.0 does. the longer the stroke the heavier the harmonic. with 2.3s bolts back out from the vibration. had oil filter spin off at high speeds couple of times. first time is caused a fire and nearly burnt my fresh built car to the ground.
honda-guy, where did you get that bearing install tool? I need to get one of those. I dont agree the mitsu shafts are poorly designed. sure gears are reliable. but they are noisy.
I made the bearing driver quick in the lathe. I made the one for the small bearing first. Then was going to make one for the larger bearing but I found a washer that was almost the perfect side for the large bearing, so I just put that on the end of the driver. The larger bearing is on the outside so easy enough to handle. If you build engines on a regular base, it probably make things a lot easier. I'll sell it, don't think I'll be opening up another 4g63 anytime soon
And no one ever say Honda engines are loud. I'm a little bias though
Jul 28, 2015, 11:20 AM
#26
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Yea, the K24 in my Si is whisper quiet...
Jul 28, 2015, 01:53 PM
#27
I dont put them in customers cars because if the customer runs his engine with detonation the balance shafts will be the first thing to fail. It would reflect back to me as a poorly built engine.
I have been building 2.3 for my cars for last ten years. the stroker engine needs the shafts more than a 2.0 does. the longer the stroke the heavier the harmonic. with 2.3s bolts back out from the vibration. had oil filter spin off at high speeds couple of times. first time is caused a fire and nearly burnt my fresh built car to the ground.
honda-guy, where did you get that bearing install tool? I need to get one of those. I dont agree the mitsu shafts are poorly designed. sure gears are reliable. but they are noisy.
I have been building 2.3 for my cars for last ten years. the stroker engine needs the shafts more than a 2.0 does. the longer the stroke the heavier the harmonic. with 2.3s bolts back out from the vibration. had oil filter spin off at high speeds couple of times. first time is caused a fire and nearly burnt my fresh built car to the ground.
honda-guy, where did you get that bearing install tool? I need to get one of those. I dont agree the mitsu shafts are poorly designed. sure gears are reliable. but they are noisy.
Thanks for all the info/details.
Jul 28, 2015, 04:02 PM
#30
he doesnt go into it. but yes the mass of the shafts is clearly tuned to the setup. the 2.4 shafts are substantially (like 7lbs vs 5lbs) heavier than 2.0 shafts. ideally you want to keep the mass of piston/rod as close to the originals. that way the canceling will be close to the same you get with the factory build.