kyoo

iTrader: (29)

Revisiting this/giving it it's own thread again for 2016::

evolutionm.net/a lot of drivetrain builders swears by this oil as the only oil to use in the t-case and rear differential. I've actually had a t-case wear out (not uncommon, especially at higher power levels) on my old evo while I happened to be using amsoil severe gear 75w90. I don't attribute it to the failure, just a note, however:

What is special about this fluid? I've never been able to find any specs on it, other than it is SAE90 & GL5. However, it seems all SAE90 fluids run in the 13-24 range at 100c, and 600-700 at 40c.

Obviously, there is more to it than just viscosities, but here are a few examples of 75w90:

amsoil severe gear 75w90: 16.8 @ 100c, 109 @ 40c
motul gear 300 LS 75w90: 16.4 @ 100c, 109.6 @ 40c
redline 75w90: 16.1 @ 100c, 112 @ 40c

75w110:
amsoil severe gear 75w110:
redline 75w110: 20.9 @ 100c, 131 @ 40c

motul 90PA (not sure if this is sae90, doesn't seem to match specs): 14.5 @ 100c, 140 @ 40c, rated for GL4 as well as GL5.

Is there any reason why a 75w90 or 75w110 wouldn't work in place of the Diaqueen? Some special additive that isn't disclosed? The hearsay on here is that there have been a lot of failures on non-diaqueen fluids, but I'm not sure why that would be the case. And does this still apply to the MZ320345?

Really just not understanding what makes it special I guess. For improved cold protection, etc etc etc I'd naturally think to run a synthetic 75w90. Does anyone have any numbers/analysis on Diaqueen/MZ320345?

Results:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...l#post11593715

Pal215

iTrader: (12)

I would have to agree with you on it being one of the most supported oils in the evo community. Diaqueen SAE90 is a VERY thick oil. This may not be a good answer to what you're asking, but I personally believe that the reason why it holds up so well is because of how consistent it is under heavy loading. That's gotta be remarkably good for an OEM spec oil.

Where other gear oils have a cold viscosity of SAE75 and a hot viscosity of SAE90, keeping it at SAE90 through the entire operating temperature range I think helps cushion botched shifting patterns and screwd up launches. This is especially important during the warm up of the drive train.

Perhaps there is an undisclosed additive that Mitsubishi doesn't want us to know about? No matter the case, I will continue to run only this oil in my rear diff and transfer case.

-pal215

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

just saw on bitog that it does have:

Molybdenum Dialkyl Dithiohosphate

whether that's the key or not, no idea.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Shep claims that diaqueen lsd90 has a high boron content. Boron is an EP (extreme pressure) additive. I don't have a mass spectrometer to validate that claim though.

When Shep told me that, I googled boron as an EP additive and found this quote to be rather interesting...


"There are two main types of EP additives, those that are temperature-dependent, and those that are not. The most common temperature-dependent types include boron, chlorine, phosphorus and sulfur. They are activated by reacting with the metal surface when the temperatures are elevated due to the extreme pressure. The chemical reaction between the additive and metal surface is driven by the heat produced from friction."

I know TRE recommends redline products per his website.

barneyb

I think what you have here is fluid engineering. The transfer case is a weak link that probably needed a redesign. Instead it got special fluid. The six speed transmission is another example of fluid engineering.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

The gear in the transfer case is cut wrong. It's a reverse cut gear, and needs to be a standard cut gear. That is why I think it fails.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

i'm not as concerned why the t-case is weak as much as why the fluid is special, as letsgetitdone posted in a couple posts above.

any other gear oils that have that kind of high pressure additive in it?

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

All GL5 gear oils have a certain content of EP additives. No one will tell you whats in them, you would have to get them analyzed yourself, unfortunately. If you send sample off to black stone, they test for all of that stuff. So you could chemically compare Diaqueen to other oils if you wanted to spend some money on it. Which is the only valid way to figure out the difference. A bunch of forum yahoo's saying "I run X/Y/Z oil and it works great" doesn't mean ****...lol

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

I'm willing to do that if it would be a valuable service to the community, but there are so many to test...

diaqueen, amsoil 75w90 svg, amsoil 75w110 svg, RL gear oil 75w90, RL gear oil 75w110..

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't test the 75w110's, I would go straight to the 75w140's. If we get a few guys willing to test oils, I have diaqueen and amsoil 75w140 at the house. I'll get one or two oils tested, if we get a few volunteers to each get one or two oils tested so we can get a good comparison of the popular stuff. Could be some very good data points.


Amsoil and redline 75w90 and 75w140, Redline heavy shock proof, and Diaqueen. That's 6 different oils. Adding the 75w110's makes it 8 (obviously ). I'm not sure what else to test as that's all I've ever run since it's what is readily available in town for me. Other guys are welcome to add to it, but should be willing pay for testing as well.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

75w140 seems a little thick, even for sae90, at least at operating temps..

a better point of testing would be if blackstone tested above 100c, in "overheating" conditions, but I don't think they do that. maybe could more or less infer how they do at hotter than normal operating temps based on the flashpoint? that's very rough though.

I was honestly thinking I'd do 75w90, maybe 75w110 for when I roadrace the car. Could we assume the additives make up is constant in a given set (i.e., all the Severe Gears have the same proportion of the same additives) or not really?

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

TRE doesn't even recommend OEM fluid. Goes straight to 80w140 redline.

http://www.teamrip.com/transfer_case...tion_info.html


I would think additive levels would be similar within a product line even in the different weights. But I've been proven wrong before.

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

he does - it's the first one for evos. not sure if the other recommendations are for his built t-case or oem ones. I'm oem/stock t-case, near-stock power levels, and aftermarket rear diff.

I did happen to e-mail redline, and they again said their 75w90 is good (suitable & recommended) for the evo t-case and rear diff. they said it did not have molybdenum, but they didn't comment on the other two, which I'm going to assume means it has it.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

He says Mitsu recommends it. He prefers redline stuff. Shep requires Diaqueen.


"96-10 EVO: The 96-2015 EVOs use a Hypoid ring & pinion gearset in the transfer case. You must use only a GL-5 of higher oil in the transfer case. Mitsubishi recommends that the transfer case in the EVOLUTION be filled with their factory oil, Diaqueen LSD Gear Oil part# MZ320345."

kyoo

iTrader: (29)

hmm gotcha.

I am fairly averse to running such a thick fluid in the t-case and rear diff though, as far as 75w140 goes... if RL is recommended for his t-cases, I've got to imagine the 75w90 and 75w110 are nearly the same, with the difference being in the viscosity.