Intermittent Starting Problems - Mysterious Cause Identified and Fixed
Sep 3, 2012, 09:09 PM
#1
Intermittent Starting Problems - Mysterious Cause Identified and Fixed
Like several others, for some time I have experienced an intermittent starting issue, whereby turning the key results in a 'click' from the starter relay, but no starter action. Sometimes I needed 20-30 turns of the key before it would suddenly turn over as if nothing were wrong. Strange indeed.
I invested several hours in checking starter, starter solenoid, and starter relay, but all seemed to work just fine when jumped with a power lead straight from the battery. I had already replaced the ignition switch and starter relay a year or so before - no improvement. A new starter and solenoid made no difference either.
I removed kick panels and the console to locate and check various connectors and starter circuit wiring. All connections checked out ok. I noticed whenever I sent power through the starter switch area, that's where trouble kept rearing its ugly head.
Some accused the start interrupter of an alarm system of being faulty. I also have an alarm system that taps into the starter circuit, so I disconnected it and verified that the problem was not resolved.
What I found after much aggravation is the problem is at the starter switch. It isn't the switch itself, but its tendency to rotate ever so slightly when the key is turned. See the photo below:
Remove the lower and upper steering wheel shaft covers, and the starter switch is revealed. The switch is held in place by only one screw. If this switch rotates by so much as a couple of degrees when the key is turned, you will hear a click, and no starter. Remove the starter switch (angled phillips wrench) and activate it with the key while holding in your hand. If you find the car starts every time, you've found the problem.
If you've done any wiring (e.g. alarm) under the dash, be sure you've not done anything to put downward pressure on that bundle of wiring from the starter switch area (see red X). If yours was like mine, you could be sorry. If anything, you want a little tension nudging those wires upward here, which can be done with wire ties.
There is a smaller, white connector assembly that triggers the 'ding dong' key alert sound. It mounts to the underside of the starter switch via a little plastic bracket and puts some pressure on the switch as a result. We don't want it tugging on the starter switch. Remove it from the starter switch and let it hang on its own (see green arrow).
Be sure you tighten the starter switch screw snugly (see purple arrow), and be sure the switch is rotated as far as it can be moved clockwise. Like I said, even if it rotates just a couple of degrees counterclockwise, it will cause trouble. It's hard to believe this area is so sensitive, but it is what it is. That being said, be gentle when you turn the key to start the car.
I hope that helps some of you!
I invested several hours in checking starter, starter solenoid, and starter relay, but all seemed to work just fine when jumped with a power lead straight from the battery. I had already replaced the ignition switch and starter relay a year or so before - no improvement. A new starter and solenoid made no difference either.
I removed kick panels and the console to locate and check various connectors and starter circuit wiring. All connections checked out ok. I noticed whenever I sent power through the starter switch area, that's where trouble kept rearing its ugly head.
Some accused the start interrupter of an alarm system of being faulty. I also have an alarm system that taps into the starter circuit, so I disconnected it and verified that the problem was not resolved.
What I found after much aggravation is the problem is at the starter switch. It isn't the switch itself, but its tendency to rotate ever so slightly when the key is turned. See the photo below:
Remove the lower and upper steering wheel shaft covers, and the starter switch is revealed. The switch is held in place by only one screw. If this switch rotates by so much as a couple of degrees when the key is turned, you will hear a click, and no starter. Remove the starter switch (angled phillips wrench) and activate it with the key while holding in your hand. If you find the car starts every time, you've found the problem.
If you've done any wiring (e.g. alarm) under the dash, be sure you've not done anything to put downward pressure on that bundle of wiring from the starter switch area (see red X). If yours was like mine, you could be sorry. If anything, you want a little tension nudging those wires upward here, which can be done with wire ties.
There is a smaller, white connector assembly that triggers the 'ding dong' key alert sound. It mounts to the underside of the starter switch via a little plastic bracket and puts some pressure on the switch as a result. We don't want it tugging on the starter switch. Remove it from the starter switch and let it hang on its own (see green arrow).
Be sure you tighten the starter switch screw snugly (see purple arrow), and be sure the switch is rotated as far as it can be moved clockwise. Like I said, even if it rotates just a couple of degrees counterclockwise, it will cause trouble. It's hard to believe this area is so sensitive, but it is what it is. That being said, be gentle when you turn the key to start the car.
I hope that helps some of you!
Last edited by Ted B; Sep 3, 2012 at 09:41 PM.
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Sep 3, 2012, 09:45 PM
#3
I have been dealing with this problem for about a year now. Have spent several hours in trying to diagnose this problem but never thought the switch rotating while turning the key could cause this! Makes so much sense though.
I will try to hold it up with wire ties like you suggested and remove any pressure it receives from the alarm. If that works, I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER!
People like you TedB are what make these forums so special/awesome. Thank you for the information.
I will try to hold it up with wire ties like you suggested and remove any pressure it receives from the alarm. If that works, I WILL LOVE YOU FOREVER!
People like you TedB are what make these forums so special/awesome. Thank you for the information.
Sep 3, 2012, 09:51 PM
#4
The wire ties will help, but not until after you get in there, loosen the switch screw slightly, and verify the switch works every time if you hold it at full clockwise while turning the key. If that is the case, you've found the problem. Follow all steps, and be gentle when turning that key.
Sep 4, 2012, 10:24 AM
#6
I will send you a pack of beers if this fixes my issue! I have been dealing with this issue for about 3 years now! It's embarrassing to have a nice car that won't even start! It's mostly happening during summers here in AZ. I've gone thru batteries and starters and still no luck! Lately, it's been happening a lot and sometimes rocking the car back and forth will finally starts the car. Like many, I also have an alarm with a kill switch. I will inspect the starter switch as you described and will come back with my results. Thank you for the informative post!
Sep 4, 2012, 10:55 AM
#7
Be sure to report back so we can get an idea of how widespread this issue may be.
Also, if anyone continues to have trouble, the starter circuit looks like this:
+ Battery terminal -> large 40A fuse - green (underhood fuse box) -> white 3mm wire
(thru firewall to interior)
-> C-126 connector, white 3-pin inside left foot kick panel -> white 3mm wire to ignition switch -> black/yellow stripe 2mm wire from ignition switch -> C-123 connector, gray 10-pin under console near right shin -> black/yellow stripe 2mm wire
(thru firewall to exterior)
-> starter relay pin 2 (center of three smaller pins) -> relay (slim underhood relay box - forwardmost relay) -> starter relay pin 5 (forwardmost pin) -> starter solenoid
- Always remember to troubleshoot clutch switch by simply disconnecting it. If disconnected, it defaults to always start. If that makes no difference, clutch switch is good.
Also, if anyone continues to have trouble, the starter circuit looks like this:
+ Battery terminal -> large 40A fuse - green (underhood fuse box) -> white 3mm wire
(thru firewall to interior)
-> C-126 connector, white 3-pin inside left foot kick panel -> white 3mm wire to ignition switch -> black/yellow stripe 2mm wire from ignition switch -> C-123 connector, gray 10-pin under console near right shin -> black/yellow stripe 2mm wire
(thru firewall to exterior)
-> starter relay pin 2 (center of three smaller pins) -> relay (slim underhood relay box - forwardmost relay) -> starter relay pin 5 (forwardmost pin) -> starter solenoid
- Always remember to troubleshoot clutch switch by simply disconnecting it. If disconnected, it defaults to always start. If that makes no difference, clutch switch is good.
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Sep 4, 2012, 12:54 PM
#8
I had the same clicking problem on my 2005 Mitsubishi Evo 8.. After 4 months of trying to figure it out, i was left with my greddy turbo timer, I ripped that out of the car and my problem was fixed. But I may have had a completely different issue
Sep 4, 2012, 02:28 PM
#10
White 3mm wire (full time 12V) -> starter switch -> Black 2mm wire w/yellow stripe to starter relay
The alarm's starter interrupt probably splices into the black wire w/yellow stripe that leaves the starter switch. This wire is energized only when the switch is in the START position, as it sends power to the starter relay. Look at the underside of the dash at the steering column, and you will spot it. You may see this clipped with each end wired to an aftermarket relay (as in my case) for the alarm interrupt. If so, unplug that relay and put a jumper between the two clipped ends. This should remove the alarm from the circuit.
I never use turbo timers, but that would need to be spliced into a different wire, not the starter lead. In the same location as described previously, you will see a larger, white wire. That wire is a full-time power source to the starter switch. If you see something spliced into that (e.g. alarm, turbo timer), that can also cause a problem if faulty.
If you want to isolate and troubleshoot this section, it isn't difficult:
(1) Remove the driver side plastic door sill, then remove the left kick panel. Find that white 3-pin connector with three large wires, and unplug it. The terminal with the solid white wire on the firewall side is full time 12V from the 40A starter circuit fuse. Clip a jumper wire there.
(2) Remove the console and find the gray 10-pin connector near the driver's right shin. Unplug it, and identify the firewall side terminal that has the black w/yellow stripe wire on both ends. That goes from the starter switch to your starter relay. Clip a jumper wire there.
(3) Take the car OUT OF GEAR and connect those two jumpers. That activates the starter, while removing your starter switch, alarm, and probably your turbo timer from the circuit. If the starter works every time those two jumpers touch, you know the problem is with the starter switch, alarm, turbo timer, or possibly a flaky connection from the splices.
The alarm's starter interrupt probably splices into the black wire w/yellow stripe that leaves the starter switch. This wire is energized only when the switch is in the START position, as it sends power to the starter relay. Look at the underside of the dash at the steering column, and you will spot it. You may see this clipped with each end wired to an aftermarket relay (as in my case) for the alarm interrupt. If so, unplug that relay and put a jumper between the two clipped ends. This should remove the alarm from the circuit.
I never use turbo timers, but that would need to be spliced into a different wire, not the starter lead. In the same location as described previously, you will see a larger, white wire. That wire is a full-time power source to the starter switch. If you see something spliced into that (e.g. alarm, turbo timer), that can also cause a problem if faulty.
If you want to isolate and troubleshoot this section, it isn't difficult:
(1) Remove the driver side plastic door sill, then remove the left kick panel. Find that white 3-pin connector with three large wires, and unplug it. The terminal with the solid white wire on the firewall side is full time 12V from the 40A starter circuit fuse. Clip a jumper wire there.
(2) Remove the console and find the gray 10-pin connector near the driver's right shin. Unplug it, and identify the firewall side terminal that has the black w/yellow stripe wire on both ends. That goes from the starter switch to your starter relay. Clip a jumper wire there.
(3) Take the car OUT OF GEAR and connect those two jumpers. That activates the starter, while removing your starter switch, alarm, and probably your turbo timer from the circuit. If the starter works every time those two jumpers touch, you know the problem is with the starter switch, alarm, turbo timer, or possibly a flaky connection from the splices.
Last edited by Ted B; Sep 4, 2012 at 02:39 PM.
Sep 4, 2012, 02:39 PM
#11
Wow, you've been so helpful. Thanks for the detailed response. I will see if I have time tonight to play with it. The weird thing is that today, I have no starting problems! only because it's cooler outside. It definitely happens more (click click no start) when it's really hot outside.
White 3mm wire (full time 12V) -> starter switch -> Black 2mm wire w/yellow stripe to starter relay
The alarm's starter interrupt probably splices into the black wire w/yellow stripe that leaves the starter switch. This wire is energized only when the switch is in the START position, as it sends power to the starter relay. Look at the underside of the dash at the steering column, and you will spot it. You may see this clipped with each end wired to an aftermarket relay (as in my case) for the alarm interrupt. If so, unplug that relay and this should remove the alarm from the circuit.
I never use turbo timers, but that would need to be spliced into a different wire, not the starter lead. In the same location as described previously, you will see a larger, white wire. That wire is a full-time power source to the starter switch. If you see something spliced into that (e.g. alarm, turbo timer), that can also cause a problem if faulty.
If you want to isolate and troubleshoot this section, it isn't difficult:
(1) Remove the driver side plastic door sill, then remove the left kick panel. Find that white 3-pin connector with three large wires, and unplug it. The terminal with the solid white wire on the firewall side is full time 12V from the 40A starter circuit fuse. Clip a jumper wire there.
(2) Remove the console and find the gray 10-pin connector near the driver's right shin. Unplug it, and identify the firewall side terminal that has the black w/yellow stripe wire on both ends. That goes from the starter switch to your starter relay. Clip a jumper wire there.
(3) Take the car OUT OF GEAR and connect those two jumpers. That activates the starter, while removing your starter switch, alarm, and probably your turbo timer from the circuit. If the starter works every time those two jumpers touch, you know the problem is with the starter switch, alarm, turbo timer, or possibly a flaky connection from the splices.
The alarm's starter interrupt probably splices into the black wire w/yellow stripe that leaves the starter switch. This wire is energized only when the switch is in the START position, as it sends power to the starter relay. Look at the underside of the dash at the steering column, and you will spot it. You may see this clipped with each end wired to an aftermarket relay (as in my case) for the alarm interrupt. If so, unplug that relay and this should remove the alarm from the circuit.
I never use turbo timers, but that would need to be spliced into a different wire, not the starter lead. In the same location as described previously, you will see a larger, white wire. That wire is a full-time power source to the starter switch. If you see something spliced into that (e.g. alarm, turbo timer), that can also cause a problem if faulty.
If you want to isolate and troubleshoot this section, it isn't difficult:
(1) Remove the driver side plastic door sill, then remove the left kick panel. Find that white 3-pin connector with three large wires, and unplug it. The terminal with the solid white wire on the firewall side is full time 12V from the 40A starter circuit fuse. Clip a jumper wire there.
(2) Remove the console and find the gray 10-pin connector near the driver's right shin. Unplug it, and identify the firewall side terminal that has the black w/yellow stripe wire on both ends. That goes from the starter switch to your starter relay. Clip a jumper wire there.
(3) Take the car OUT OF GEAR and connect those two jumpers. That activates the starter, while removing your starter switch, alarm, and probably your turbo timer from the circuit. If the starter works every time those two jumpers touch, you know the problem is with the starter switch, alarm, turbo timer, or possibly a flaky connection from the splices.
Sep 4, 2012, 02:42 PM
#12
I just edited my response above, so be sure to re-read it and/or print it before you give it a go.
If you get yourself upside down and look under there, you should be able to spot less-than-professional wiring and/or connections. I cleaned up a bird's nest in my car, and a couple of questionable connections while at it. Take your time, identify the connections I described, and do the same if necessary. Solid connections and wire ties are your friends.
If you get yourself upside down and look under there, you should be able to spot less-than-professional wiring and/or connections. I cleaned up a bird's nest in my car, and a couple of questionable connections while at it. Take your time, identify the connections I described, and do the same if necessary. Solid connections and wire ties are your friends.
Sep 4, 2012, 08:28 PM
#13
OMG!!! I think I fixed my issue based on Ted's post. This is how it went:
I took out steering column cover to reveal the starter switch. Prior to loosening the screw, I wanted to try to start it and see how the starter switch behaves. Sure enough, it was moving every turn of the key and I could see a "spark light" behind the starter switch.
So I went ahead and unscrew it, check the wiring harness and pushed them up so that they create no down tension (or pulling down on starter switch). I repositioned the starter switch where it' suppose to be and holding it in place while my other hand tightened the screw.
After screwing it as tight as possible, I tried to slightly move the starter switch to make sure there is no more slight movement. Then I started turning the key to do my testing and the results are as follows:
Turning the key to start the car cause no more movement on the starter switch. The spark I was seeing is completely gone. Obviously the car starts every turn of the key now! I even did on and off for about 20 times and it fires every turn of the key.
Of course I will have to wait a few days and mostly when it's hot outside before I make my final conclusions. But so far I am optimistic simply because before once I fire up the car then shut it off, 9 out of 10 it will not fire up again when I try to start it immediately after shutting it off. Also, before if I left my headlights on then shut off the car, trying to start it immediately just causes clicks and no start. So I tried both of these tonight after fixing the starter switch and it fires right away!
Like Ted mentioned, it seems that this switch is sensitive. Any type of movement causes it to miss the contact needed to fire up the car. The spark I was seeing is possibly some kind of grounding or the switch not making a full contact causing it to not start. Obviously, when it's hotter outside, it is even harder for the slight contact to start the car. This is my assumption and I could be wrong. I will have to wait a few days and follow up this post and make my final conclusion.
I took out steering column cover to reveal the starter switch. Prior to loosening the screw, I wanted to try to start it and see how the starter switch behaves. Sure enough, it was moving every turn of the key and I could see a "spark light" behind the starter switch.
So I went ahead and unscrew it, check the wiring harness and pushed them up so that they create no down tension (or pulling down on starter switch). I repositioned the starter switch where it' suppose to be and holding it in place while my other hand tightened the screw.
After screwing it as tight as possible, I tried to slightly move the starter switch to make sure there is no more slight movement. Then I started turning the key to do my testing and the results are as follows:
Turning the key to start the car cause no more movement on the starter switch. The spark I was seeing is completely gone. Obviously the car starts every turn of the key now! I even did on and off for about 20 times and it fires every turn of the key.
Of course I will have to wait a few days and mostly when it's hot outside before I make my final conclusions. But so far I am optimistic simply because before once I fire up the car then shut it off, 9 out of 10 it will not fire up again when I try to start it immediately after shutting it off. Also, before if I left my headlights on then shut off the car, trying to start it immediately just causes clicks and no start. So I tried both of these tonight after fixing the starter switch and it fires right away!
Like Ted mentioned, it seems that this switch is sensitive. Any type of movement causes it to miss the contact needed to fire up the car. The spark I was seeing is possibly some kind of grounding or the switch not making a full contact causing it to not start. Obviously, when it's hotter outside, it is even harder for the slight contact to start the car. This is my assumption and I could be wrong. I will have to wait a few days and follow up this post and make my final conclusion.
Last edited by evo_rc; Sep 4, 2012 at 08:34 PM.
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deepee1 (Jun 14, 2021)
Sep 4, 2012, 08:40 PM
#14
This problem is so widespread on older evos and If you look at the design the one screw to hold the whole switch is a dumb idea! I only wish mitsu had two screws to attach the switch rather than one. Overtime, I can easily for see how it became slightly loose. Everytime you turn your key, it has a tendency to turn counter-clockwise. So if you turn your key too hard, over time it becomes loose. Also, if there is an alarm tapped into the wire of the starter switch and pulling the harness down, it will loosen up over time. If you look there is a metal piece on the back of the steering column nearby the starter switch harness. So if you are the type that moves your steering wheel up and down, I can see how the harness can hit this metal piece and cause a pressure down the starter switch.
Last edited by evo_rc; Sep 4, 2012 at 09:02 PM.
Sep 4, 2012, 09:01 PM
#15
If there was any visible movement whatsoever, that was your problem. Believe it.
When the interior is hot, the retaining ring that holds the starter switch expands slightly, which allows greater movement of the switch.
Can't argue with either of those assessments. Now, about that 'pack of beers' ... 