Question re:Methanol/Water Injection, HELP!!
Aug 1, 2014, 12:33 AM
#1
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Question re:Methanol/Water Injection, HELP!!
So I ran across a guy who I might be buying his Evo from and he is running I guess an ALKI Control Injection kit. problem is, I'm a little over my head in regards to this stuff. I am a mechanic, so I get the general gist of how it works and it's intended purpose, but I'm a noob. Since he has this setup in his Evo, would I HAVE to be limited to using it? Can I just drive it without using a Meth/Water mix? Or do I HAVE to use it if it's installed? I'm not really looking for such huge hp gains or anything. I just want an Evo back in my stable as I gave up a nightmare purchase a while back. I've been searching for hours for an answer and I can't find anything re: this on here or other sites. Couldn't I just run a regular high octane 93 pump gas and eliminate the use of the kit, or would I have to remove it completely? Anyone?
Aug 1, 2014, 01:16 AM
#2
I would think that the car would be tuned with the water meth kit. So if you're planning on driving the car aggressively in its current state, then no you cannot simply remove the system. Otherwise you can use it as much as you want until it runs out.
Usually a water/meth set up will inject the water/meth mixture after a preset PSI (lets say 10psi). After 10psi the mixture will be injected into the intake tract and you can take advange of its benifits...its essentially giving you more octane. So the timing in the ecu is going to be more aggressive to take advantage of the "higher octane". If you take the meth away, you run the risk of knock which could lead to a blown motor.
Usually a water/meth set up will inject the water/meth mixture after a preset PSI (lets say 10psi). After 10psi the mixture will be injected into the intake tract and you can take advange of its benifits...its essentially giving you more octane. So the timing in the ecu is going to be more aggressive to take advantage of the "higher octane". If you take the meth away, you run the risk of knock which could lead to a blown motor.
Aug 1, 2014, 06:15 AM
#4
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Thread Starter
Teal2nnr...
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
Aug 1, 2014, 06:41 AM
#5
Teal2nnr...
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph, but I'm assuming you're talking about 100% methanol mixture as opposed to a 50/50 mix? you can run 100% methanol as well, but you would need to have a tune for it to take advantage of it. I don't want to go too deep into it as I'm sure they are people with a lot more knowledge then I on the subject, and there are TONS of threads around that go into detail on all of them (50/50 mix, straight methanol, water injection..etc).
If I were you I just get a re-tune from someone like http://www.tscomptuned.net/. It wouldn't take long and you can forget about the meth, or revisit later when you're more comfortable with it.
Aug 1, 2014, 06:47 AM
#6
Ask to see if the Car has a Alternate MAP Switch, I know on some tunes like this you can toggle between using The Meth or not with a switch wired to the ECU.
The Map Switch would switch the EVO's tune to a alternate MAP depending on whether you are using the meth or not.
The Map Switch would switch the EVO's tune to a alternate MAP depending on whether you are using the meth or not.
Aug 1, 2014, 11:27 AM
#7
Newbie
Thread Starter
Yes you would have to ensure the tank that holds the methanol is always reasonably full. It might be a hassle, but its also a cheap way to make power. They are more popular in places that don't have access to E85.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph, but I'm assuming you're talking about 100% methanol mixture as opposed to a 50/50 mix? you can run 100% methanol as well, but you would need to have a tune for it to take advantage of it. I don't want to go too deep into it as I'm sure they are people with a lot more knowledge then I on the subject, and there are TONS of threads around that go into detail on all of them (50/50 mix, straight methanol, water injection..etc).
If I were you I just get a re-tune from someone like http://www.tscomptuned.net/. It wouldn't take long and you can forget about the meth, or revisit later when you're more comfortable with it.
I'm not sure what you're referring to in the last paragraph, but I'm assuming you're talking about 100% methanol mixture as opposed to a 50/50 mix? you can run 100% methanol as well, but you would need to have a tune for it to take advantage of it. I don't want to go too deep into it as I'm sure they are people with a lot more knowledge then I on the subject, and there are TONS of threads around that go into detail on all of them (50/50 mix, straight methanol, water injection..etc).
If I were you I just get a re-tune from someone like http://www.tscomptuned.net/. It wouldn't take long and you can forget about the meth, or revisit later when you're more comfortable with it.
My bad, sorry. What I meant was, from what I've been reading from places like AEM and Snow performance, if that you can purchase bulk, gallon bottles of methanol, or even use substitutes like washer fluid because of the mix of 35% methanol premixed with the water from places like Walmart. But I was also reading somewhere that you could substitute 100% water. You wouldn't see any boost gains of course, but instead of having to run meth all the time it'd be saving money there, because quite frankly I don't need all the speed. I love the boost, don't get me wrong, but if don't need to get my groceries in 11 seconds flat.
I guess another wonder I have is if driven conservatively, how long these bottle mixtures last. I know it's atomized to the micron but, one has to wonder before investing in this kind of thing. I'm still trying to research a little more about that because if it's not cost effective, then I'm taking it out. Hopefully extreme-speed mentioned, if I could toggle it on and off, that would be optimal. That way I wouldn't have to constantly resupply for incidental sprays from the injectors. Thanks for the info so far guys. I appreciate it. Just can't seem to find the answers I'm looking for unless I ask specifically what I want. Only bits and pieces of useful info.
Last edited by sundevil79; Aug 1, 2014 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Tone of message. Mistype
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Aug 1, 2014, 12:39 PM
#8
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There was this sticky posted on here in the tuning section just about this.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/wa...res-101-a.html
He is an amazing tuner here in southern Arizona and I think probably the best. Always great service from him, but the article is a good read.
My opinion is that if you are just dailying and think mixtures are too much to worry about. Just do 100% water. Pretty much available anywhere you go but you have to use distilled water to keep you lines from getting mineral deposits. As the article says that you wont get too much more in power but you'll better cool your cylinders/steam clean them. Its what I prefer. Get a tune for that and if you decide to take it to the track sometime and need more emphhhh then you can get it re-tuned for whatever mixture you'll be looking at.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/wa...res-101-a.html
He is an amazing tuner here in southern Arizona and I think probably the best. Always great service from him, but the article is a good read.
My opinion is that if you are just dailying and think mixtures are too much to worry about. Just do 100% water. Pretty much available anywhere you go but you have to use distilled water to keep you lines from getting mineral deposits. As the article says that you wont get too much more in power but you'll better cool your cylinders/steam clean them. Its what I prefer. Get a tune for that and if you decide to take it to the track sometime and need more emphhhh then you can get it re-tuned for whatever mixture you'll be looking at.
Aug 1, 2014, 12:53 PM
#10
Newbie
Thread Starter
Ask to see if the Car has a Alternate MAP Switch, I know on some tunes like this you can toggle between using The Meth or not with a switch wired to the ECU.
The Map Switch would switch the EVO's tune to a alternate MAP depending on whether you are using the meth or not.
The Map Switch would switch the EVO's tune to a alternate MAP depending on whether you are using the meth or not.
There was this sticky posted on here in the tuning section just about this.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/wa...res-101-a.html
He is an amazing tuner here in southern Arizona and I think probably the best. Always great service from him, but the article is a good read.
My opinion is that if you are just dailying and think mixtures are too much to worry about. Just do 100% water. Pretty much available anywhere you go but you have to use distilled water to keep you lines from getting mineral deposits. As the article says that you wont get too much more in power but you'll better cool your cylinders/steam clean them. Its what I prefer. Get a tune for that and if you decide to take it to the track sometime and need more emphhhh then you can get it re-tuned for whatever mixture you'll be looking at.
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/wa...res-101-a.html
He is an amazing tuner here in southern Arizona and I think probably the best. Always great service from him, but the article is a good read.
My opinion is that if you are just dailying and think mixtures are too much to worry about. Just do 100% water. Pretty much available anywhere you go but you have to use distilled water to keep you lines from getting mineral deposits. As the article says that you wont get too much more in power but you'll better cool your cylinders/steam clean them. Its what I prefer. Get a tune for that and if you decide to take it to the track sometime and need more emphhhh then you can get it re-tuned for whatever mixture you'll be looking at.
Outstanding. Thank you Epiphanysfi.
Aug 1, 2014, 07:00 PM
#13
Teal2nnr...
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
That makes, sense. However I'm not really looking to drive aggressively so much anymore. I'm not saying that there won't be times I give the extra umph at a traffic light or something but.... I'm 35 now, it's gonna be a daily driver, but I just gotta wonder, what the appeal is when the stuff has to become as routine as filling up your tank.
But if I understand this correctly, I need to top off my gas tank when I'm at the gas station with regular fuel, most likely 93 octane, but then I gotta put a 50/50 mix of methanol/water mixture, Every single time it empties out to prevent engine damage? Just seems like a lot of hassle, plus finding a place to not only store it but purchase it in continuous quantity.
From what I've read also from AEM and such, is that there's the ability to just do 100% which still becomes atomized, providing next to Zero boost performance and water of course doesn't have the properties of methanol and gasoline. Truth to this? Thanks guys. Just would like to save myself a $28,000 blunder.
Aug 2, 2014, 10:52 AM
#14
Im not sure if im reading this correctly. You should have a seperate tank elsewhere in your car for the 50/50 mix. The mix does not go in your fuel tank. I have a aquamist kit been using it for 2 plus years i have a 2.5 gallon baffled tank in the trunk. I have used less than 8 gallons in two years. Mine is triggered by injector duty cycle not boost and progessivly sprays more as the duty increases. If you drive like a nut you obviously will use more juice. A good meth system will have a failsafe as well, to lean or no spray it will dump the boost therfore saving your engine.
Aug 2, 2014, 11:02 AM
#15
You can set up the failsafe to the ECU using Tephra, it will switch to an alternative map if the meth system loses power or becomes clogged. I still have my kit from 9 years ago that I'm reinstalling soon and have been looking at all the new add-ons to make it more reliable.