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Evo GeneralDiscuss any generalized technical Evo related topics that may not fit into the other forums.
Please do not post tech and rumor threads here.
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First let me start by saying I hate having to create a "what's wrong with my evo" thread but I know that the most knowledgeable people of this platform come through here and I hope you can help me. I will keep the facts straight to the point and list the mods that I think are relevant.
Car is a Evo 9
Mods:
Built 2.0 (already seen almost 30k on this motor)
Built Head
Kelford 272 Cams
ID2000s with a buschur Double pumper
Omni 4 bar tuned on Speed Density
EGR delete
Tuned on e85
Zeitronix Boost and AFR sensor
Issue was I had a spark plug porcelain blow out, burnt an exhaust valve from it.
Surprisingly enough, car still ran and drove mostly fine. Compression was low from the cylinder it happened in. It behaved as normal as it could with a burnt valve when it came to idling and driveability.
I bring my car to a shop, they pull the head, replace the valve, got it cleaned, looking almost brand new by the time it was done.
Head goes back on the car, fired up, but starting experiencing some issues. Car would cold start, but then die as it got warm.
Head comes back off, sent back to the machine shop and gets inspected. Everything checks out.
Head goes back on the car and similar issues finally threw a code for P0011, so they narrowed it down to a faulty Mivec solenoid. They replace it with a used one they had at the shop, car finally stayed on and drove okay.
I go pick up the car and did a quick test drive and decided to take it home. What I've noticed is the driveability has gotten worse.
These are my main symptoms
Every time I disengage the gear and go to neutral, car stumbles around 7-800RPM, takes a lot longer to get itself back up. So far it has not died on me from that, but it sure feels like it wants to.
Car idles mostly rich around 10-11, especially when that happens. Sometimes it will find its way to 14.7 but not immediately. This is based off my ZT2
On a good note, and this happened 2x so far, but each morning, the cold start (on e85) fired up on the first crank). I never had a cold start issue before, but this was impressive.
When my car is warm/hot, it does not want to fire up. I need to give it throttle and even then sometimes it sounds like it fired on 3 cylinders. Kept applying the throttle and it finally idled normal. [/B]
Sensors that have been replaced recently
Omni 4 bar (over a year ago)
Intake Cam Sensor (brand new couple years ago)
Mivec Cam Gear (Brand new couple years ago)
Mivec Cam solenoid (most recent, but with a used one)
Other notes:
-My car had its injectors installed on the stock O-Ring on in the intake manifold, which required a spacer for the fuel rail. Now that its been caught, the O-Ring and the spacer has been removed so the injectors are installed properly. Keep in mind this means the injectors now sit about 1/8 inch closer to the IM.
-Codes right now is P0134 but was its been there and was tuned on closed loop, so should make my car behave the way it does now. I even replaced the O2 sensor and that was not the issue. Also I unplugged it during idle and it didn't do anything.
UPDATE 1/23/17: Car is still throwing the P0011 and now P0031. Will dig into this now
-Car has a Kiggly HLA now which it didn't before
Injectors have been cleaned and flow tested, both by ID and the shop my car was at.
Compression now (not the best numbers)
125-145-145-120 on a hot engine (with the rebuilt head)
Wet test shot all the numbers up.
Possible ideas?
-I had a Omni 4 bar go bad on me once, driveability sucked but not quite like how my car is now.
-Any of these symptoms of a retiring IACV? That is 10+ years old and never replaced.
-Car just needs to be retuned?
This post came out longer than expected but I hope straight to the point. I will add/edit things if they come to mind.
I have a tactrix and EvoScan/ECU flash but I'm still a noob when it comes to that.
Thank you for the read, anyone please chime in.
Last edited by evo.matt; Jan 23, 2017 at 06:01 PM.
I'm no expert but maybe the used solenoid isn't working out. That, and you need an O2 sensor - easy to check. The combustion chamber problem - probably a separate issue.
I appreciate the input, really anyone can chime in. Honestly, if I'd known I was getting all 3 of those codes, I probably wouldn't have made this post, but my reader was having issues earlier so I assumed it was only my P0134 which I had before and wasn't giving me any issues.
Now that I have these codes I need to do some research and get to the bottom of it. The O2 sensor is new, so I'm very positive its the connection to the ecu. If I can fix that issue, I'm sure 2 of the codes will be removed
Have you checked if your BISS (base idle set screw) is set properly and that the car had time to relearn idle? I see this question pop up frequently, and almost every time it is the issue. If you have a tactrix cable and Evoscan you can check your base idle really easily. If you have it, go into the program and go down to the actuator box in the bottom right. I think it's the last option in that box, it will say biss adjuster or something along those lines. Activate it. If you car stalls, loosen your biss WHILE the actuator is still on. If the idle is too high, tighten the biss. After the idle is where you want it let the car idle ten minutes with all accessories off (climate control, lights, etc.). Then let it idle for ten minutes with everything on. Should have
your idle 100% good after that.
I've seen the same problems plenty of times on E85.
It's pre ignition due to lack of fuel and / or too much timing.
You need to go over the fuel system, check the pressure properly and also check the flow.
Flow test the injectors if they haven't been done. They won't be flowing what you think they are.
Dial in the cams too.
You can't do that properly with the engine in the car.
You actually need 50% more fuel to run on E85, not the commonly accepted figure of 30%.
WB gauges don't work properly either.
You'll know this once you've double checked with an exhaust gas analyser.
Have you checked if your BISS (base idle set screw) is set properly and that the car had time to relearn idle? I see this question pop up frequently, and almost every time it is the issue. If you have a tactrix cable and Evoscan you can check your base idle really easily. If you have it, go into the program and go down to the actuator box in the bottom right. I think it's the last option in that box, it will say biss adjuster or something along those lines. Activate it. If you car stalls, loosen your biss WHILE the actuator is still on. If the idle is too high, tighten the biss. After the idle is where you want it let the car idle ten minutes with all accessories off (climate control, lights, etc.). Then let it idle for ten minutes with everything on. Should have
your idle 100% good after that.
I forgot to mention this was something I wanted to check as well. My first plan of action is to solve the codes because I'm positive that's what's making my car run like poop.
Something else is up with my car making it undrivable. I can barely get the car to idle, very bad misfire and not smooth at all.
Checked timing
Replaced spark plugs (again)
Swapped coil packs to see if I had a bad coil
Replaced my Omni 4 bar
Finally checked compression today and it looks fine. I think the guage I bought reads a little high
180-175-180-165 but not bad
i might take a video of how the car runs if that would help, but what's the next thing I should check? My friend said fuel pressure? Maybe my walbro 255 is finally going bad? Been trying to read up on symptoms to see if that could be my issue.
Any ideas on what to check would be greatly appreciated
first off don't listen to anything RightSaid Fred says, hes an idiot.
A couple things i would suggest doing would be a boost leak test, which will turn up any vacuum leaks as well. I have seen fuel pump resistor packs go bad, you might want to take a look at that and make sure the wiring looks good and it gives the proper resistance with a meter. One thing to also consider is when the engine starts to stumble the ecu will engage the high voltage circuit to the fuel pump which could be causing the rich condition you are seeing on your meter, this could also be magnified with your large injectors.
When you say you checked timing i assume you mean cam timing? If not pull the timing cover and make sure everything lines up right. Check all the chassis grounds make sure they are good and tight. Disconnect your battery to wipe all the learned stuff, make sure its good and full on charge then hook it back up and start the car and see how it goes. If it throws codes you will have to work through those before diving too much deeper.
first off don't listen to anything RightSaid Fred says, hes an idiot.
A couple things i would suggest doing would be a boost leak test, which will turn up any vacuum leaks as well. I have seen fuel pump resistor packs go bad, you might want to take a look at that and make sure the wiring looks good and it gives the proper resistance with a meter. One thing to also consider is when the engine starts to stumble the ecu will engage the high voltage circuit to the fuel pump which could be causing the rich condition you are seeing on your meter, this could also be magnified with your large injectors.
When you say you checked timing i assume you mean cam timing? If not pull the timing cover and make sure everything lines up right. Check all the chassis grounds make sure they are good and tight. Disconnect your battery to wipe all the learned stuff, make sure its good and full on charge then hook it back up and start the car and see how it goes. If it throws codes you will have to work through those before diving too much deeper.
Thank you for your help! My capabilities are limited when it comes to car diagnostics, but I'm trying and learning as much as I could with this platform. Since I'm not tech, I wouldn't rule anything out that I checked.
As for timing, I checked both cams and crank. It looked lined up and I say looked because the lower timing cover is grimy and pushed out a little, but based off of what a few people have said the timing looked correct. My accessory tensionor is broken (the 1/2" drive hole) which is why I haven't removed it just yet to double check the timing marks.
As for the boost leak, I only want to rule this out because my car is on SD. I drove home with my LICP popped off before, so even the tiniest leak shouldnt make my car behave the way it is.
I will continue with checking the grounds and possibly fuel pump assembly. part of me thinks its fuel related now.
Thanks again, will keep this thread updated if I find anything!
Another simple thing I haven't seen that you have check or even mention is the fuel filter.
You are correct, this is something I have yet to check! Seeing how my compression is good and timing should be correct, I feel like this helps eliminate some things. It could very well be fuel related so I will be removing the fuel pump assembly and inspecting it soon.
My other idea is a bad cam sensor. My intake cam sensor was replaced a few years ago, but he exhaust side is still the original one. Car has 139k now.
Update: 4/12/17 Still no real progress unfortunately. I wanted to share these videos as well as the picture of the timing marks. I'm basically planning on bringing this to another shop because nothing I do seems to be getting closer. I already lost over 2k from the last shop, almost half of it was from labor, so this is why I'm trying so hard to figure it out myself.
What I've tried recently
-Tested a different set of injectors (modified map for it) same result.
-Got my injectors back from ID, installed them and switch the map back, same result.
-Bought a low mile OEM coil pack, same result.
-Already tried new map sensor, no change.
-tried messing with the map slightly. Set Mivec map to 0, also full-time open loop for the front o2 sensor. Now the original map is back on since I put the IDs back in.
-Compression was 180-180-180-165 with a brand new craftsman tester.
-I looked down each cylinder with a borescope and didn't see any abnormalities either.
Video shows evo sounding like a lawn mower, once its warm sounds more normal. I still haven't drove it, because I'm afraid of the car just dying and getting stuck somewhere. Why even drive it if it can't idle normal?
Crank plate is dirty, but I actually cleaned most of the grime off already.
Jan 23, 2017, 04:15 PM
