jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

FRONT
ITEM SPECIFICATION
Toe-in mm (in.) 0 ± 2 (0 ± 0.08)
Steering angle Inner wheel 31°45’ ± 1°30’
Outer wheel (reference) 27°15’
Camber (selectable from 2 options) -1°00’ ± 30’ or -2°00’ ± 30’ (Left/right deviation within 30’)
Caster 3°55’ ± 30’ (Left/right deviation within 30’)
Kingpin inclination 13°45’ ± 1°30’
Lower arm ball joint breakaway torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 3.4 (4.4 - 30.1)
Lower arm pillow ball bushing rotation starting torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5-3.0 (4.4-26.6)
Stabilizer link ball joint turning torque N·m (in-lb) 1.7 - 3.2 (15 - 28)

REAR
ITEM STANDARD VALUE
Toe-in mm (in) 3 ± 2 (0.12 ± 0.07)
Camber -1°00’ ± 30’ (Difference between right and left within 30’)
Thrust angle 0°00’ ± 0°09’
Upper arm ball joint turning torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 2.5 (4.4 - 22)
Trailing arm ball joint turning torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 2.5 (4.4 - 22)
Assist link ball joint turning torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 2.5 (4.4 - 22)
Assist link slide bushing turning torque N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 2.0 (4.4 - 17)
Lower arm pillow ball bushing turning N·m (in-lb) 0.5 - 3.0 (4.4 - 26)
Stabilizer bar link ball joint turning torque N·m (in-lb) 1.7 - 3.1 (15 - 27)

Desired Front Camber -2.0 degree.
Front and Rear toe 0 degree.
Desired Rear Camber -1.0 degree.

what you guys think? thats around factory right?

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

oh stock suspension..

DaWorstPlaya

iTrader: (31)

That looks really good. Factory specs would have had a little toe-in on the rear but that will wear your tires out quickly . Castor can't be adjusted on an EVO with stock suspension.

bbenavitz

iTrader: (1)

one degree of neg camber front and rear and zero toe front and rear is what I run. More than one deg of neg camber will wear the inside of the tires. More neg camber in the front than rear will cause more understeer. Too much toe in for the rear will also cause more understeer.

WW3900

That's if you don't drive agressively...



That is incorrect sir. That would decrease understeer... not trying to argue with you....

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

so

Desired Front Camber -2.0 degree.
Front and Rear toe 0 degree.
Desired Rear Camber -1.0 degree

is a little less aggressive from stock? but still aggresive?

WW3900

That's a good aggressive street setup. The car vs. factory specs should oversteer more. I setup a lot of guys with this and they love the fact that they can throttle steer and that the understeer is mostly eliminated.

If you have a aftermarket rear swaybar or stiffer rear spring rates, then i would say the rear doesn't have enough neg. camber.

Btw, if you don't drive the car hard or mostly on the freeway, you are gonna kill the inside edges of your front tires.

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

i just drag ever so often...i dont plan on lowering anytime soon..no sways either...i am going with pzer nero's stock size soon. I wanted something agreesive but less, none of this inside or outside wear issues...what do you recommend?

Wheelhaus

iTrader: (2)

Suspension as I see it: (sorry I'm bored at work).
This is basically what's happening to/with the parts you may be adjusting. Adjusting more tha one thing at a time will muddle the results. REALLY good suspension tuners are both artists and scientists. This is the bare-bones basics:

0° toe is normal, anything else will decrease tire life. However:
Front neg toe (point in) will increase stability as the tires are constantly driving "toward" each other. Front pos toe (point out) increases turn-in as the inside tire wants to turn more along the turn radius. Rear neg toe (point in) will increase stability and understeer more. Rear pos toe will increase oversteer and rotation.

Camber is good, to a degree. (get it?)
Neg Camber (inward tilt) increases a tire's grip the harder it's pushed (it will use more contact patch as the tire squishes and is stressed), and the tire's grip will be more progressive until it's at maximum grip. Ideally, you want this angle to plant the largest contact patch when the suspension is fully loaded in a hard corner. When it breaks loose, it will snap loose because you were at max grip, and it let go.

More neg camber will cause the car to tramline more (follow road crown) but will handle aggressive driving better. A more conservative camber setting will get you to the full contact patch sooner, but will break loose gently as you exceed that point and begin to roll the tire over and begin to diminsh the contact patch. Highly aggressive camber will shorten tire life. Anything beyond 2-3° will wear tires excessively if they're mostly street driven.

Positive camber is typically never a good idea as you'd be driving on the shoulder of the tire, and even moreso when turning and the tire is loaded.

Caster is cool.
It's like a dynamic camber adjustment when you turn the wheels. Imagine the steering axis (like the axis from the north to south pole). Now imagine it's tilted back a bit. So, when the wheels are straight, the wheel points ahead and is vertical. When it's turned however, the wheel not only turns, it also tilts left or right (like a chopper front wheel). This is normally 3-4°, but can be a little more aggressive depending on the application. 2wd RC off-road buggies use this to an extreme, their front tires really lean into the turn like a motorcycle leans into it.

Tire pressure is often ignored.
If you run higher pressure, it will typically increase the tire's initial bite (to a point). It's more typical to run higher front pressure (by 2-8psi) to increase the tires response. With less pressure, the tire's initial grip (response) is reduced, allowing a little more give. A common setup for an AWD car that understeers is to have higher front pressure. If you exceed a certain point, the tires aren't pliable enough to grip, and they'll also cause unnecessary bounce instead of absorbing some amount of vibration.

Springs and dampers are the meat of the suspension.
And there's WAY more to it than this basic info. Stiffer springs and damping (should ideally be kept within the same "range") will prevent body roll, yes, and firm the ride, yes, but more importantly they quicken the weight transfer of the car for a road setup. The slower the weight transfer happens (imagine a minivan) the more the tires are overloaded and their dynamic angles are shot to hell. Stiff suspension helps to maintain these angles and prevent "momentous" weight transfer while still allowing for bump absorption and proper tire loading.

Swaybars are a touchy subject.
Lots of people are for them, lots are against them. Their basic purpose is to limit body roll, but they can also add "seasoning" to how the springs and dampers work. If they're TOO stiff for the application, they will limit independence between the wheels and you'll lose traction by lifting tires (soft suspension with too stiff swaybars). This "seasoning" however, can be used to subtley adjust the amounts of traction of the front or rear wheels to induce or reduce under/oversteer. These are a seasoning ONLY, they won't make up for poorly adjusted suspension.

There's lots of other things going on, but this is the basics.

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

so stock is -2 for front and back on the evo...should i do -1 now? or? thanks for the info Wheelhaus ..they should make that a sticky

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

front and rear 0 toe

rsboy

iTrader: (48)

-1.5 front, -1.0 rear, 0 toe front/rear... car handles great, tire wear is good, worked really well in a couple of track days and ALOT of daily driving. Lowered on Hotchkis and stock struts.

jesterEVO

iTrader: (5)

cool i will try that out

fixem2

iTrader: (30)

How did you get -1.5 front with the stock suspension? The eccentric bolt only allows -1 or -2. The alignment shops I have talked too suggect camber plates for anything else.

Killboy

iTrader: (2)

It's my understanding from many suspension gurus and guides that negative front toe (wheels pointed inward) increases high-speed stability, sacrificing turn-in response. Positive front toe (wheels pointed outward) increases turn-in response, sacrificing high-speed stability.

0° toe is not desirable as there is always SOME play in the steering mechanism and a little toe in or out puts tension on these pieces to keep the car stable in a straight line.

I'm starting to grow tired of all the conflicting guru-wannabes on forums.