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Old Aug 3, 2006, 02:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny23
i,m going from stock to 18x9 rims and 245x40 tires and am definetely getting an alignment.going from 17 to 18,s you should definetely get an alignment even if it feels ok. Better safe than sorry for less than 100.00. just my opinion
Tell me why, exactly, scientifically, that you might need an alignment after changing wheels?

That is not true.

You do NOT need an alignment just be cause you change wheels or tires, even if they are a completely different size than stock. Wheel and tire choice has absolutely nothing to do with the relationship between the hub face, tie rods, control arms or strut assembly. That is like asking if you need to drain and refill your windsheild washer fluid reservoir when you put new wiper blades on.

Wiper blades have nothing to do with washer fluid. Wheels have nothing to do with an alignment.
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Last edited by EVOlutionary; Aug 3, 2006 at 02:33 PM.
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Old Aug 3, 2006, 02:30 PM   #17
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Going bigger in diameter changes nothing. If you have same the width and offset there is no need to align the car. Changing wheels will not change your caster, camber, toe, ackerman, bumpsteer any of that. The only time you should align it is if you go with a different width and offset and you will have to custom spec that out.

Even then most of your settings will be the same. If you had -1 degree of camber before you will still have -1 degree of camber after. However, it will be one degree over _" instead of 1 degree over 8" which could be trouble if you are going a lot wider than stock.

Unless you are going way wider I wouldn't worry about it. What I would look into would be what it does to your corner weights if you have coilovers.
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Old Aug 3, 2006, 02:31 PM   #18
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Any time you put aftermarket rims on that are different that the stock wheels, you should get an alignment. Only way you wouldn't get an alignment is if the new wheels were the same offset, same tire size, and width.
Once again. That is incorrect. Please explain how a different wheel will change the angle of the hub in relation to the ground or the chassis of the car. Thanks.
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Old Aug 3, 2006, 07:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stikillller
i meant to ask after a DROP@!

i'm dropped on Espelir Active GT springs
If it is after a drop due to springs then you will need to get an alignment as it will mess up your toe settings. Changing wheels doesn't require an alignment ...
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Old Aug 3, 2006, 11:17 PM   #20
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i,m going from stock wheels and tires to 18x9 +31 wheels with 245x40 REO50A PP tires. For the money i spent i,m damn gonna have piece of mind for 100.00 to assure everything is on the money!
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Old Aug 4, 2006, 04:51 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stikillller
HAHAHA i just remembered, i meant to ask after a DROP@! hahahahahhahaha oops

i'm dropped on Espelir Active GT springs, -.- I guess i should get one! you too Mark! Lets go somewhere together and get a discount!
ok! where do we go?
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Old Aug 4, 2006, 04:56 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny23
i,m going from stock wheels and tires to 18x9 +31 wheels with 245x40 REO50A PP tires. For the money i spent i,m damn gonna have piece of mind for 100.00 to assure everything is on the money!
Why? What makes you think that anything will change with your alignment?

How does paying for something unnecessary give you better piece of mind.

Now, if it's been a while and you want an alignment just to make sure everthing is still in specs, that's fine. But it won't change only from swapping wheels and tires. (unless you previously had an alignment done and your wheels were bent at the time)
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Autobahn South - TTU, 1:27.339 (fastest NASA record of all classes)
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Thanks to my 2012 Sponsors:
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Old Aug 4, 2006, 05:46 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Why? What makes you think that anything will change with your alignment?

How does paying for something unnecessary give you better piece of mind.

Now, if it's been a while and you want an alignment just to make sure everthing is still in specs, that's fine. But it won't change only from swapping wheels and tires. (unless you previously had an alignment done and your wheels were bent at the time)
Or if the car has never been aligned - not sure it rolls off the floor with a perfect alignment But listen to EVOlutionary; he's spot on!!

stikiller or Mr Suave - shoot me a PM if you need a recommendation - although I don't think a "Group Buy" is going to work
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Old Aug 4, 2006, 10:25 AM   #24
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i know i learned something new, i was under the impression new rims would mean alignment..

guess im gonna save myself a little money
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Old Aug 4, 2006, 01:33 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Why? What makes you think that anything will change with your alignment?

How does paying for something unnecessary give you better piece of mind.

Now, if it's been a while and you want an alignment just to make sure everthing is still in specs, that's fine. But it won't change only from swapping wheels and tires. (unless you previously had an alignment done and your wheels were bent at the time)
How does paying for something unnecessary give you better piece of mind? I dont think its unnecessary to spend 100.00 to know everything is dead on accurate with a wheel,tire change.Even if its slightely off it will wear the tires enough that i would be kicking myself for not getting aligned. To prevent a possible problem in the future i,ll spend 100.00. And i,m sure i,m not the only one who thinks that way, and if i am well thats just me.BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY!
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 09:57 AM   #26
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Ok, sorry, I guess we are coming from two different places here. I have my car aligned about 4-8 times a year because I am always changing my suspension and messing with the settings. Because I already know that everything is accurate before I change wheels, I know it is accurate after I change wheels.

It sounds like you have some doubt that your alignment was correct even before you swapped wheels, so you now want to get it aligned just to make sure everything is in specs. That would be a good idea.

BTW, I change wheels once a week on average.
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2011 NASA TTU NATIONAL CHAMPION

NASA Track Records:
Autobahn South - TTR, 1:28.211
Autobahn South - TTU, 1:27.339 (fastest NASA record of all classes)
Grattan - TTR, 1:23.445
Grattan - TTU, 1:21.385 (fastest NASA record for all classes)

10.4 @ 133mph, CBRD BBK Full, Pure Tuned

Thanks to my 2012 Sponsors:
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 11:14 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVOlutionary
Once again. That is incorrect. Please explain how a different wheel will change the angle of the hub in relation to the ground or the chassis of the car. Thanks.
Just my $.02, so please don't take this as an attack.

I own a shop and I have been customizing vehicles as well as doing suspension and wheels for 20+years, not to mention I worked for General Motors doing chassis work for some time as well. Unless the wheel you are putting on is the same offset and width, and matches the stock height you will need an alignment. If the wheel you are putting on is taller but matches the OEM size(profile), same width as the OEM size, same offset as the OEM, no alignment needed. If the wheel is wider, taller(has a different profile), and a different offset "YOU WILL NEED AN ALIGNMENT." Ask any respectable wheel shop in the world, and you will get the same answer. Is it neccessary? No, but can you wear your tires and suspension components out quicker with the new wheels that mess up the OEM suspension geometry. Even the manufacturers will tell you that. If you don't understand it now, then you need to do some major research on your own. I have been at this far too long and customizing many vehicles over the last 20 years for race, for show, and street so I know this to be a fact. If people don't want an alignment after changing their wheel setup, so be it because it's their money to waste. But until someone can prove the whole industry of manufacturers and engineers wrong about alignments, I suggest leaving the misinformation out of the equation. I know what I know, but if you want to prove me wrong please put up some 100% verifiable proof that will negate what many of us know to be fact. You will be hard pressed to counter what the industry knows by hard fact and experience.

Later


BTW, I guess that putting a smaller diameter or bigger diameter wheels and tires(overall size/taller or shorter) than OEM will not throw off the Speedometer either....
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 01:58 PM   #28
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 05:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
Just my $.02, so please don't take this as an attack.

I own a shop and I have been customizing vehicles as well as doing suspension and wheels for 20+years, not to mention I worked for General Motors doing chassis work for some time as well. Unless the wheel you are putting on is the same offset and width, and matches the stock height you will need an alignment. If the wheel you are putting on is taller but matches the OEM size(profile), same width as the OEM size, same offset as the OEM, no alignment needed. If the wheel is wider, taller(has a different profile), and a different offset "YOU WILL NEED AN ALIGNMENT." Ask any respectable wheel shop in the world, and you will get the same answer. Is it neccessary? No, but can you wear your tires and suspension components out quicker with the new wheels that mess up the OEM suspension geometry. Even the manufacturers will tell you that. If you don't understand it now, then you need to do some major research on your own. I have been at this far too long and customizing many vehicles over the last 20 years for race, for show, and street so I know this to be a fact. If people don't want an alignment after changing their wheel setup, so be it because it's their money to waste. But until someone can prove the whole industry of manufacturers and engineers wrong about alignments, I suggest leaving the misinformation out of the equation. I know what I know, but if you want to prove me wrong please put up some 100% verifiable proof that will negate what many of us know to be fact. You will be hard pressed to counter what the industry knows by hard fact and experience.

Later


BTW, I guess that putting a smaller diameter or bigger diameter wheels and tires(overall size/taller or shorter) than OEM will not throw off the Speedometer either....
I guess I'll ring in here.
DaytonEvo, you are so out of your mind it's ridiculous. Your pathetic man, you haven't the slightest idea what your talkin' about!! What are you sniffin' Your so full of sh...
*snicker* Just playin man. I've been knowing this guy since highschool and he knows his stuff. He's my go-to-man as far as rims and tires are concerned. He has his own business and has been at it for a number of years. Usually if you go to something wider than OEM tire or tire and rim combo, it may be a good idea to get the alignment checked out. It's just the smart thing to do. Or you can learn the hard way, gamble and pay for it later.
Later.
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 06:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
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Just my $.02, so please don't take this as an attack.

I own a shop and I have been customizing vehicles as well as doing suspension and wheels for 20+years, not to mention I worked for General Motors doing chassis work for some time as well. Unless the wheel you are putting on is the same offset and width, and matches the stock height you will need an alignment. If the wheel you are putting on is taller but matches the OEM size(profile), same width as the OEM size, same offset as the OEM, no alignment needed. If the wheel is wider, taller(has a different profile), and a different offset "YOU WILL NEED AN ALIGNMENT." Ask any respectable wheel shop in the world, and you will get the same answer.
You are exactly the type of person or shop I question. You say it is so because that is the way you've done it for years. Have you ever actually tested it yourself, or have you always just done it that way because that is what you were told when you first started out? I will not ask one of these respectable wheel shops. They are there to sell products, whether it is tires, alignments, or even helping the shop down the road sell alignments.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
Is it neccessary? No, but can you wear your tires and suspension components out quicker with the new wheels that mess up the OEM suspension geometry. Even the manufacturers will tell you that.
So above you say you WILL NEED AN ALIGNMENT, not you say that it is not necessary. Define "not necessary" and "you will need an alignment". What are you saying will change? Camber? Toe? Caster? How exactly will it change?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
If you don't understand it now, then you need to do some major research on your own . . . . I know what I know, but if you want to prove me wrong please put up some 100% verifiable proof that will negate what many of us know to be fact.
Ok. No problem. What in your vast experience have you found to be the most reliable, repeatable, accurate and precise alignment machine in general use today. Of the two I normally use one has checkered paddles they hang off the wheel and lasers flash on them, while the other has big black cubes with an arm sticking out them that hang off each wheel. Both of them are run by computer. If you recommend a different type, let me know and I will try to track one down locally. Here is how I will test.

1 - check stock alignment
2 - take car off, drive 5 miles, go back on and re-check aligment (this will show the repeatability of the test and will give us a rough estimate of alowable tolerances)
3 - take car off, put on different offset and different diameter wheels and tires, drive 5 miles then retest
4 - take car off, put stock wheels/tires back on, retest

How about if I am wrong, I will cover the cost of the labor and alignments; if you are wrong, you cover the cost. Labor will be beween $200-$300 for this test, plus $100 to the winner for time setting at the computer explaining things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayton_EVO
BTW, I guess that putting a smaller diameter or bigger diameter wheels and tires(overall size/taller or shorter) than OEM will not throw off the Speedometer either....
Actually it will throw off the speedometer. Jeez, after all your years in the industry I thought you'd know that. With a smaller diameter tire the car travels a shorter distance each time the wheel goes around.

EVOlutionary
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NASA Track Records:
Autobahn South - TTR, 1:28.211
Autobahn South - TTU, 1:27.339 (fastest NASA record of all classes)
Grattan - TTR, 1:23.445
Grattan - TTU, 1:21.385 (fastest NASA record for all classes)

10.4 @ 133mph, CBRD BBK Full, Pure Tuned

Thanks to my 2012 Sponsors:
Andy @ Showcase Mitsubishi
Keith @ Pure Tuning
Chad @ CBRD
David @ DHP Composites
Jon @ TRE
Martin @ Girodisc
Evan @ Exedy

Last edited by EVOlutionary; Aug 6, 2006 at 06:36 PM.
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Old Aug 6, 2006, 06:32 PM
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