This ABS issue is going to be the death of me
Jul 24, 2013, 06:55 AM
#1
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This ABS issue is going to be the death of me
Ok, so I bought this car a year ago from someone on here and it has been a headache since. I have dumped 5k into it and Im still not done. I was told the car was in mint condition and I was lied too. When I got the car the ABS light was on and the person said "Oh, its just an unplugged sensor. I just had the brakes done and they must have unplugged something." Didn't make sense to me but at this point I HAD to take the car bc the funds had already been wired to him. So I get home and do the free Autozone diagnosis and they said "It appears you have a wheel speed sensor not responding." So I was thinking maybe this clown I bought it from was not lying. I looked and all the connections were plugged in. I then had the car in and out of shops for a list of other issues the guy lied about and two different shops looked into the ABS for me. The first one seemed shady and kept saying "We are doing more testing because we can't determine what the issue is" and the next shop says "My Snap-On scanner says all your ABS sensors are not responding". I pulled the codes two days ago and got:
11, 12, 13, 14, 21, 22, 23, 24
So, all of them are not responding. This shop said they couldn't go any further as they didn't know enough to dive deeper.....great shop. So my question is, what could have happened along the way that caused ALL the sensors to not respond now? I checked every connection last night and the driver side front actually had the two wires from the sensor that go into the harness were ran up along side it and not into the harness...someone had pulled the wires out. I could have overlooked that when I did my initial look over and that would explain the one sensor being out that Autozone discovered. But why all 4 now? Would could have gone wrong? Fuse is good under the hood, all connectors are connected, disconnected the battery and reconnected it....Im at a loss on whats next. I want to get the last two things: A/C issue (which I am fixing this weekend) and the ABS issue resolved so I can be done with fixing anything on the vehicle. I just need some direction on where to go from here to determine what happened to the ABS.
SIDE NOTE: When I got the car the fuse was pulled and laying in the fuse box. When I plugged it in the car would instantly engage the ABS upon the first brake and the light would come on with the ACD lights. The ABS engaging has since stopped. Light is off when the car starts, drive, it comes on when I brake along with the ACD lights, and no vibration from the ABS like before (as if it is not working at all now).
I need some help and I dont want to drop hundreds at the Mitsu dealer if i dont have too. I have Evo Scan but it will not read DTCs or anything I guess bc I have the 2.0 cable. I have access to volt meters and so for so I can test currency. I just need some direction on what first.
11, 12, 13, 14, 21, 22, 23, 24
So, all of them are not responding. This shop said they couldn't go any further as they didn't know enough to dive deeper.....great shop. So my question is, what could have happened along the way that caused ALL the sensors to not respond now? I checked every connection last night and the driver side front actually had the two wires from the sensor that go into the harness were ran up along side it and not into the harness...someone had pulled the wires out. I could have overlooked that when I did my initial look over and that would explain the one sensor being out that Autozone discovered. But why all 4 now? Would could have gone wrong? Fuse is good under the hood, all connectors are connected, disconnected the battery and reconnected it....Im at a loss on whats next. I want to get the last two things: A/C issue (which I am fixing this weekend) and the ABS issue resolved so I can be done with fixing anything on the vehicle. I just need some direction on where to go from here to determine what happened to the ABS.
SIDE NOTE: When I got the car the fuse was pulled and laying in the fuse box. When I plugged it in the car would instantly engage the ABS upon the first brake and the light would come on with the ACD lights. The ABS engaging has since stopped. Light is off when the car starts, drive, it comes on when I brake along with the ACD lights, and no vibration from the ABS like before (as if it is not working at all now).
I need some help and I dont want to drop hundreds at the Mitsu dealer if i dont have too. I have Evo Scan but it will not read DTCs or anything I guess bc I have the 2.0 cable. I have access to volt meters and so for so I can test currency. I just need some direction on what first.
Jul 24, 2013, 08:48 AM
#2
check to make sure none of the other abs wires are broken in the wheel wells.
i had wide tires on and pulled one of my abs wires and broke it which caused all of my ACD lights to come on and abs to no longer work.
if the wires look good, find the abs ecu and make sure the wires have good continuity from the end of the harness to the ecu
i had wide tires on and pulled one of my abs wires and broke it which caused all of my ACD lights to come on and abs to no longer work.
if the wires look good, find the abs ecu and make sure the wires have good continuity from the end of the harness to the ecu
Jul 24, 2013, 10:03 AM
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Ok, thanks. I will try that tonight and see what I can find out. I need to first get the wires back in the harness so I can reconnect it. I can't seem to pull the pins out of the harness to do so though.
Jul 26, 2013, 09:39 AM
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Well the other night I found that a wheel speed sensor, driver side front, had the wires pulled from the harness. I pulled the harness and fixed the wires (I hope they are in the correct sides of the harness) then plugged it back in. Turned the car on last night and the ABS light is now on all the time but when I run the codes the ACD lights flash fast the whole time (which means no codes from what I read) and the ABS light still gives the same 8 codes. The ACD light did flash codes before though.
Not sure what next now. Can anyone confirm the location of the black and white wire for their driver front wheels speed sensor? Should the black wire be closest to the outside of the wheel well when installed and mounted at the top of the well or be on the inside of the harness in the well? ........if that makes sense. Just want to cofirm I have them in the right spots.
Not sure what next now. Can anyone confirm the location of the black and white wire for their driver front wheels speed sensor? Should the black wire be closest to the outside of the wheel well when installed and mounted at the top of the well or be on the inside of the harness in the well? ........if that makes sense. Just want to cofirm I have them in the right spots.
Jul 28, 2013, 12:00 PM
#5
Since I was rotating my tires last night I thought I'd take a look under the fender lining for you.
Here's the black and white wires closest to the front. White wire is out and black is in.
Here is the back side of that plug:
Here's the black and white wires closest to the front. White wire is out and black is in.
Here is the back side of that plug:
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Jul 28, 2013, 12:22 PM
#8
CIRCUIT OPERATION
A toothed ABS rotor generates a voltage pulse as it moves across the pickup field of each ABS sensor.
The amount of voltage generated at each wheel is determined by the clearance between the ABS rotor teeth and the ABS sensor, and by the speed of rotation.
The ABS sensors transmit the frequency of the voltage pulses and the amount of voltage generated by each pulse to the ABS-ECU.
The hydraulic unit modulates the amount of braking force individually applied to each wheel cylinder.
ABS DTC SET CONDITIONS
DTCs 11, 12, 13, 14 are output when signal is not input due to breakage of the wires of one or more of the four ABS sensors.
DTCs 21, 22, 23, 24 are output in the following cases:
Open circuit is not found but no input is received by one or more of the four ABS sensors at 10 km/h (6 mph) or more .
Sensor output drops due to a malfunctioning ABS sensor or warped ABS rotor.
TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS
The most likely causes for these DTCs to set are:
DTC 11, 12, 13, 14
Malfunction of the ABS sensor
Damaged wiring harness or connector
Malfunction of the brake modulator hydraulic unit (integrated with ABS-ECU)
The most likely causes for these DTCs to set are: DTC 21, 22, 23, 24
Malfunction of the ABS sensor
Damaged wiring harness or connector
Malfunction of the brake modulator hydraulic unit (integrated with ABS-ECU)
Malfunction of the ABS rotor
Malfunction of the wheel bearing
Excessive clearance between the ABS sensor and ABS rotor
A toothed ABS rotor generates a voltage pulse as it moves across the pickup field of each ABS sensor.
The amount of voltage generated at each wheel is determined by the clearance between the ABS rotor teeth and the ABS sensor, and by the speed of rotation.
The ABS sensors transmit the frequency of the voltage pulses and the amount of voltage generated by each pulse to the ABS-ECU.
The hydraulic unit modulates the amount of braking force individually applied to each wheel cylinder.
ABS DTC SET CONDITIONS
DTCs 11, 12, 13, 14 are output when signal is not input due to breakage of the wires of one or more of the four ABS sensors.
DTCs 21, 22, 23, 24 are output in the following cases:
Open circuit is not found but no input is received by one or more of the four ABS sensors at 10 km/h (6 mph) or more .
Sensor output drops due to a malfunctioning ABS sensor or warped ABS rotor.
TROUBLESHOOTING HINTS
The most likely causes for these DTCs to set are:
DTC 11, 12, 13, 14
Malfunction of the ABS sensor
Damaged wiring harness or connector
Malfunction of the brake modulator hydraulic unit (integrated with ABS-ECU)
The most likely causes for these DTCs to set are: DTC 21, 22, 23, 24
Malfunction of the ABS sensor
Damaged wiring harness or connector
Malfunction of the brake modulator hydraulic unit (integrated with ABS-ECU)
Malfunction of the ABS rotor
Malfunction of the wheel bearing
Excessive clearance between the ABS sensor and ABS rotor
Jul 28, 2013, 01:57 PM
#11
A tooth dropped all four sensors?
Good guess buddy
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4g63...1353593556255/
Is guy is selling the abd module obo...
Good guess buddy
https://www.facebook.com/groups/4g63...1353593556255/
Is guy is selling the abd module obo...
Jul 31, 2013, 06:32 AM
#12
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Thanks for all the replies.
I was able to get the harness to the driver side wheel speed sensor all wired back up and my ACD lights are now back to normal (only one light on instead of all 3 like before). The ABS now engages upon the first touch of the brakes and will do it for maybe a total of about 10-15 seconds then the ABS light comes on and the pulsating in the pedal stops, since the ABS is now shut off obviously. It resets when I turn the car off and will do the previous each time upon the first application of the brakes. So it appears I may have a bad sensor somewhere. Issue being that I tried to pull one sensor and stopped bc it WOULD NOT budge. I tried everything and it was either I snapped it into pieces or I left it alone. So I guess I have 2 options: back probe each sensor and see what I get in order to determine which is jacked up OR pull the ABS fuse and just let it be.
If I pull the fuse under the hood for the ABS, will this make my three ACD lights come on again or will the ACD still remain operating as it should? I was going to give it a try but its been raining on and off here and I dont drive it in the rain (Im ****...haha).
I personally dont need ABS so if its disabled and the ACD still works, Im fine with that. But if I pull the fuse and the ACD lights all come on again I am just better off either ignoring it and moving on since it is a small problem or back probe and do searching as to which wheel speed sensor died off.
I was able to get the harness to the driver side wheel speed sensor all wired back up and my ACD lights are now back to normal (only one light on instead of all 3 like before). The ABS now engages upon the first touch of the brakes and will do it for maybe a total of about 10-15 seconds then the ABS light comes on and the pulsating in the pedal stops, since the ABS is now shut off obviously. It resets when I turn the car off and will do the previous each time upon the first application of the brakes. So it appears I may have a bad sensor somewhere. Issue being that I tried to pull one sensor and stopped bc it WOULD NOT budge. I tried everything and it was either I snapped it into pieces or I left it alone. So I guess I have 2 options: back probe each sensor and see what I get in order to determine which is jacked up OR pull the ABS fuse and just let it be.
If I pull the fuse under the hood for the ABS, will this make my three ACD lights come on again or will the ACD still remain operating as it should? I was going to give it a try but its been raining on and off here and I dont drive it in the rain (Im ****...haha).
I personally dont need ABS so if its disabled and the ACD still works, Im fine with that. But if I pull the fuse and the ACD lights all come on again I am just better off either ignoring it and moving on since it is a small problem or back probe and do searching as to which wheel speed sensor died off.
Jul 31, 2013, 06:55 AM
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Thats the weird part. Prior to fixing the wires I was getting codes from the ACD lights and the ABS lights (when jumping pins 1 and 4). Now with the wires fixed the ACD light flashes quickly (meaning no codes) and only one light is on. The ABS light still flashes the same 11, 12, 13, 14, 21, 22, 23, 24 codes. One would think that the ACD would still be acting up then....at least from what I read.