Soft Pedal Solutions - Rd. 2
Oct 17, 2016, 02:07 PM
#17
Lol better than stuck under the brake pedal!
I hate driving in flip flops but its tolerable with the thong style. No thong and sh*t hits the fan; Ive done that before and had them fall off. I dont remember what I was doing it wasnt a huge deal but it too got lodged somewhere and I didn't enjoy it haha.
I hate driving in flip flops but its tolerable with the thong style. No thong and sh*t hits the fan; Ive done that before and had them fall off. I dont remember what I was doing it wasnt a huge deal but it too got lodged somewhere and I didn't enjoy it haha.
Oct 18, 2016, 07:52 AM
#18
Figured I'd reply in here so others can see my train of thought vs us going back and forth via email. I still don't think there is anything mechanically wrong with the car. Booster wouldnt make the pedal soft, and if your lines were bad you'd know it. Theyre teflon lined and encased in braided SS. The whole concept is such that the SS doesnt allow them to expand much at all hence the stiffer pedal feel. So the only way the pedal could be soft given that its the lines is if its bulging which I dont see being possible in your case.
I know I keep telling you and I think and you probably want to smack me in the head at this point (not needed don't worry I hit my head enough without you!) but keep bleeding. Old fashion 2 person bleeding. It sucks, yes. Brake fluid sucks, yes. Your gf getting annoyed with you sucks, yes.
But your brake pedal ED sucks more than all of that. So get back out there and keep bleeding and get her stiff again.
I know I keep telling you and I think and you probably want to smack me in the head at this point (not needed don't worry I hit my head enough without you!) but keep bleeding. Old fashion 2 person bleeding. It sucks, yes. Brake fluid sucks, yes. Your gf getting annoyed with you sucks, yes.
But your brake pedal ED sucks more than all of that. So get back out there and keep bleeding and get her stiff again.
This but first....
When you replaced your parts, pads etc... did you replace them with the same parts as previous?
Mushy pedal is a sign of fluid consumption, somewhere in the system is displacing more fluid.
1) Air
2) brake hoses
3) Caliper (seals, pistons type)
4) Friction (compressibility based on friction type, thickness, shims, material)
5) Dashboard deflection (did you crack you dash? jk)
6) Master Cylinder (leaking)
Otherwise....
Please explain your manual bleeding "procedure"
I think more importantly, which caliper and which bank (inboard/outboard) do you start with, and then how do you proceed to 2nd, 3rd, 4th caliper.
Sometimes the procedure is very important, I didn't believe it until I did my differently and it worked.
Oct 18, 2016, 08:11 AM
#19
This but first....
When you replaced your parts, pads etc... did you replace them with the same parts as previous?
Mushy pedal is a sign of fluid consumption, somewhere in the system is displacing more fluid.
1) Air
2) brake hoses no change
3) Caliper (seals, pistons type) Stock caliper was used, then replaced with rebuilt calipers with upgraded seals and pistons. Pedal feel improved, but still mushy.
4) Friction (compressibility based on friction type, thickness, shims, material) New pads & rotors used (Girodisc S/S & DBA5000 rotors), pedal feel the same before & after
5) Dashboard deflection (did you crack you dash? jk) If you mean firewall, I also installed the Grimmspeed Master Cylinder Brace. Feel Improved but not eliminated
6) Master Cylinder (leaking) Master Cylinder was replaced.
Otherwise....
Please explain your manual bleeding "procedure"
I think more importantly, which caliper and which bank (inboard/outboard) do you start with, and then how do you proceed to 2nd, 3rd, 4th caliper.
Sometimes the procedure is very important, I didn't believe it until I did my differently and it worked.
The manual bleeding procedure: Order is RR, LF, LR, RF, outside valve, then inside valve. I'm on the brakes, girlfriend on the valve. I press and hold, call out "open," she yells back "open," then I call out "close," and she yells back "close," then I wait an additional second while holding the brake before I let go, in case she was late in closing the valve. Repeat in the order mentioned above. Same order for pressure bleeding, minus the brake pumping obviously.
I'm really happy with the rebuilt calipers I got, and my rears the clearcoat has started to peel/look bad - so I'm going to have the rears rebuilt, and going to replace the stainless lines during, since I might as well with things being disconnected.
Also, a number of people mentioned their wheel bearings silently going bad, resulting in soft pedal - I don't see any other symptoms though, so I don't think it is that.
Last edited by kyoo; Oct 18, 2016 at 09:05 AM.
Oct 18, 2016, 08:58 AM
#20
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
See most answers above in bold - most of which should have been addressed already in the OP.
The manual bleeding procedure: Order is RR, LF, LR, RF, outside valve, then inside valve. I'm on the brakes, girlfriend on the valve. I pump, call out "open," she yells back "open," then I call out "close," and she yells back "close," then I wait an additional second while holding the brake before I let go, in case she was late in closing the valve. Repeat in the order mentioned above. Same order for pressure bleeding, minus the brake pumping obviously.
I'm really happy with the rebuilt calipers I got, and my rears the clearcoat has started to peel/look bad - so I'm going to have the rears rebuilt, and going to replace the stainless lines during, since I might as well with things being disconnected.
Also, a number of people mentioned their wheel bearings silently going bad, resulting in soft pedal - I don't see any other symptoms though, so I don't think it is that.
The manual bleeding procedure: Order is RR, LF, LR, RF, outside valve, then inside valve. I'm on the brakes, girlfriend on the valve. I pump, call out "open," she yells back "open," then I call out "close," and she yells back "close," then I wait an additional second while holding the brake before I let go, in case she was late in closing the valve. Repeat in the order mentioned above. Same order for pressure bleeding, minus the brake pumping obviously.
I'm really happy with the rebuilt calipers I got, and my rears the clearcoat has started to peel/look bad - so I'm going to have the rears rebuilt, and going to replace the stainless lines during, since I might as well with things being disconnected.
Also, a number of people mentioned their wheel bearings silently going bad, resulting in soft pedal - I don't see any other symptoms though, so I don't think it is that.
Last edited by kyoo; Oct 18, 2016 at 09:04 AM.
Oct 24, 2016, 08:37 AM
#22
Did notice when I was changing the wheels the other day - the two center BBS caps melted & deformed - not unheard of and I do hear a lot of track day groups ask you not to run center caps, but pretty rare for the BBS ones to do that, as far as I know.
I think the brakes are dragging some, possibly due to failure in the lines (which I'm hoping is the cause of my soft brakes issue)
I think the brakes are dragging some, possibly due to failure in the lines (which I'm hoping is the cause of my soft brakes issue)
Brakes that are dragging light on fire because they just keep getting hotter and hotter, I don't think that's your issue. And when brake lines fail, especially braided stainless lines, its usually a full failure. Worth a try though since a set of lines is only $120.
we were able to drive around the soft pedal issue somewhat, but was perplexing was the pads started smoking after the 9th run the car made, on a 40s course that was not braking intensive. save for the end, where we had to slow from 65ish to walking pace, not much use of brakes at all. the car was struggling to slow down enough in the slow-down zone, and we took cool-down drives to get the brakes cooled down.
so, not only are the brakes not braking very hard, both in soft pedal & in actual braking, but they're also braking enough that, on a cool day, the brakes started smoking? doesn't seem to add up, you'd think it'd be one or the other. That's why I was thinking possibly brake drag?
Oct 24, 2016, 09:44 AM
#23
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
That definitely doesn't make sense. Smoke brakes means they're really hot, or at least well out of their temp range.
Oct 24, 2016, 10:13 AM
#24
Yeah and that's what i don't understand is how to smoked those pads...The only time I overheated those on my car was when they were too thin and I hotlapped it a few times in a row. But my course is twice the size of yours at least and my car has ~150WHP more and moar rubber. Something still doesnt add up here.
What causes pads to drag? Is it possible your codriver and/ or you ride the brakes?
As far as soft pedal as I said to you via email a soft pedal means something is compressing and my guess is still air. Now the braking force that you exert when you press the pedal isnt all going towards pushing the fluid which in turns pushes on the pistons but its actually being used to compress the air so you lose some braking power. But the pads should be able to still stop hard if you push the pedal harder in theory.
What causes pads to drag? Is it possible your codriver and/ or you ride the brakes?
As far as soft pedal as I said to you via email a soft pedal means something is compressing and my guess is still air. Now the braking force that you exert when you press the pedal isnt all going towards pushing the fluid which in turns pushes on the pistons but its actually being used to compress the air so you lose some braking power. But the pads should be able to still stop hard if you push the pedal harder in theory.
Oct 24, 2016, 10:43 AM
#25
we're definitely not riding on brakes or left foot braking. the course wasn't hard on brakes either.
so we've got light brakes from air or some other issue, meaning at the very least we're not using full braking power when we get on the brakes, and at the same time brakes are either dragging or being used enough that is causing them to get super hot?
so we've got light brakes from air or some other issue, meaning at the very least we're not using full braking power when we get on the brakes, and at the same time brakes are either dragging or being used enough that is causing them to get super hot?
Oct 26, 2016, 10:09 AM
#26
If I follow you correctly all this time you have been doing a traditional two-person bleed. I suspect that your bleeder valves have not been changed and are OEM. They could be letting air in through the threads of the bleeder valve.
Why don't you try these Russell Speed Bleeders? They make it a One Man job.
https://www.lancershop.com/customer/...productid=1771
Why don't you try these Russell Speed Bleeders? They make it a One Man job.
https://www.lancershop.com/customer/...productid=1771
Oct 26, 2016, 11:07 AM
#27
He's done both 2 man as well as using his Motive Power Bleeder. I know what youre saying but how it it possibly letting in air assuming the bleeder is only cracked open when the brake pedal is pushed down or the power bleeder has positive pressure on the system?
He also bought replacement calipers so the bleeders are new/ newish and should be in good shape.
Im still on the boat that he just needs to step up his bleeding game and keep bleeding as Ive been saying for the past 2 months now. It's just hard to keep doing the same thing without going insane after a while wondering why no change is occurring.
The speed bleeders arent a bad idea regardless and I thought about picking up some myself in the past but never got around to it.
I just don't want him swapping parts left and right in the quest of bleeding as it'll get expensive very quickly. Not to mention everytime something is replaced more air is introduced into the system.
He also bought replacement calipers so the bleeders are new/ newish and should be in good shape.
Im still on the boat that he just needs to step up his bleeding game and keep bleeding as Ive been saying for the past 2 months now. It's just hard to keep doing the same thing without going insane after a while wondering why no change is occurring.
The speed bleeders arent a bad idea regardless and I thought about picking up some myself in the past but never got around to it.
I just don't want him swapping parts left and right in the quest of bleeding as it'll get expensive very quickly. Not to mention everytime something is replaced more air is introduced into the system.
Oct 26, 2016, 07:10 PM
#30
He's done both 2 man as well as using his Motive Power Bleeder. I know what youre saying but how it it possibly letting in air assuming the bleeder is only cracked open when the brake pedal is pushed down or the power bleeder has positive pressure on the system?
He also bought replacement calipers so the bleeders are new/ newish and should be in good shape.
Im still on the boat that he just needs to step up his bleeding game and keep bleeding as Ive been saying for the past 2 months now. It's just hard to keep doing the same thing without going insane after a while wondering why no change is occurring.
The speed bleeders arent a bad idea regardless and I thought about picking up some myself in the past but never got around to it.
I just don't want him swapping parts left and right in the quest of bleeding as it'll get expensive very quickly. Not to mention everytime something is replaced more air is introduced into the system.
He also bought replacement calipers so the bleeders are new/ newish and should be in good shape.
Im still on the boat that he just needs to step up his bleeding game and keep bleeding as Ive been saying for the past 2 months now. It's just hard to keep doing the same thing without going insane after a while wondering why no change is occurring.
The speed bleeders arent a bad idea regardless and I thought about picking up some myself in the past but never got around to it.
I just don't want him swapping parts left and right in the quest of bleeding as it'll get expensive very quickly. Not to mention everytime something is replaced more air is introduced into the system.
As old as the Evo is now valves and other similar parts should be checked before being put into use.
