Cobb AccessPORT 1/4 mile results and review
Mar 7, 2009, 08:31 PM
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Cobb AccessPORT 1/4 mile results and review
I have had my AP for several weeks now and I have been pretty happy with the Perrin Stage 2 off the shelf map. I bought the AP with the intention of tuning the car myself with Access Tuner Race, though it was actually really nice to be able to pop in one of the pre-made maps and have instant gratification. I had issue with the lowered 4500rpm 2-step, but Perrin worked with me on that and put it back to the stock 5500. I highly recommend Perrin if you are going to buy an AP. I have been reading people's dyno results and I can't believe that some people are seeing 70, 80, 90+hp over the stock tune with various Cobb and Perrin maps. My car feels stronger, but not that much stronger. Adding that much power to my VIII took it from low 13s to high 11s and it gained 16mph in the 1/4. So I had scheduled dyno time for today to find out for myself. When I heard it was going to be 80 degrees and sunny, I changed plans and headed to Edgewater Raceway in Cleves, OH.
A short history of my car on the stock tune. My car is a loaded GSR and with me in the car I am over 3800lbs depending on fuel load. She's a pig and I'm not a small guy either. I ran several 13.2-13.3 @ 103-104 passes with a GReddy Ti-C catback exhaust. I later added UR downpipe and test pipe and at a different track ran eight passes at 13.11 @ 105...all within a couple thousandths of a second.
So today my goal was to try a few of the different shelf maps to see what the results were. I will post them in the order I ran them, along with some commentary. I suggest reading the notes and not just the times.
12.806 @ 106.53 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.78 60 foot, I shifted quick but lifted every shift.
12.705 @ 107.34 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.79 60 foot, I flatshifted and hammered the gears pretty hard.
14.235 @ 97.21 - Cobb Stage 1 93 Oct Map. Yeah you are reading that right. The car ran like complete sh*t and I was pretty upset. On the return road I realized I had a service engine light, P1235 Overboost code, and it happened on the 2-step before I even launched. I have had this happen twice now with 2 different maps from 2 different vendors, so it isn't a problem with this map. It only has happened right after I load the map, get on the 2-step, and it throws that code and goes into limp mode. So I never gave the Cobb Stage 1 a fair shake today. I have run that map on the street and it feels strong in the lower rpm ranges, but falls off up top. It actually feels great for around town.
12.68 @ 107.37 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.78 60 foot, and I hammered the gears again never lifting off the throttle until the end of the track. This was my best ET of the day.
12.762 @ 107.16 - Same as the previous run, but I lifted on the 1-2 shift, flatshifted 3 and 4.
13.309 @ 102.19 - Stock Map, lifting to shift. 1.87 60 foot. I actually hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear. I was trying to shift at the same rpm that I shift the Perrin map and either they have moved the rev limit up 200 rpm or so, or I just made a mistake. I don't think I lost much ET with that, but maybe it would have been a high .20.
12.842 @ 107.11 - Cobb Stage 2 Map, however I have NOT removed the restrictor pill to the solenoid. The car felt rowdy coming out of the hole on this tune and I spun hard. 1.88 60 foot and I did the same as before...trying to shift where I shift the Perrin map I hit the damn rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd gear. I think this could have been my best pass has I gotten it to hook and didn't hit the limiter, but I probably didn't lose that much ET doing that. I did have lots of high knock values in 4th gear on this run, but the car felt good. I am probably going to stick with this map because I can work with it...Cobb doesn't lock their maps.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the gain. My goal was a 12.50, but I knew that was lofty. Based on today's results, a 0.629 improvement in ET and 5.18 mph. 80-90whp like others are showing? I dunno about that, but I will be putting it on the dyno soon for the hell of it.
The Positives: If you are like I was, you are probably asking yourself if this thing is worth it, or if you should invest in something else. I think that for the average EVO X owner this is the safest and easiest way to get a good tune on the car. You spend $695 and in a really easy 5 minutes you upload a proven map that hundreds of other people are using every day. The car responds immediately and regardless of the horsepower gains or 1/4 mile times, the car becomes more responsive and much more fun to drive. Mail in flashes and a lot of crap like that are going to start to surface with the release of ECUflash and there will be CHEAP tunes...$50, $75, $100. I have seen some really shoddy tunes out there that people have purchased online. A lot of people selling open source tunes have no business tuning a car. So if you are looking for easy and reliable instant gratification, you can't go wrong with the AP. Another huge advantage is the ability to carry multiple maps around with you without lugging your laptop around. I made all my changes today and did all my datalogging with the AP, and left my computer at home. Big plus. Lastly, the Access Tuner Race software allows you to make changes in the tune the same way you would in ECUflash. All the same maps, all the same capability and then some.
The Negatives: EDIT: I'm leaving what I originally posted about the logging, but please note that Cobb is jumping in to lend a hand and it may be user error, or they may look into helping out with the logging. What I originally posted is below. It can't all be perfect can it? As I stated before, I bought this so that I could tune my own car with the ATR software and it was just a bonus that it came with pre-tuned maps. I was an ECUflash user with my VIII and still use it, however I liked the idea of the tuning software and data logger all being part of the same package. The only problem is that the logging is NOT good. First off it is not in a usable format. It is just text in a spreadsheet. You can create your own charts in Excel to make it easier to actually USE that information, but my guess is that most people won't do that. I am working on a definition file for Data Log Lab, which will allow the logs to be viewed in graph form, and it will give you an idea for HP and TQ while you are street tuning. But now you are back to having multiple programs open to view simple data...AP Manager, Excel, Data Log Lab.
But that is only the beginning. When I say simple data...I mean it. The sampling rate is horrible. On all my 1/4 mile runs today, I got 16 data points from the time I left the line to the time I let off the gas. 60 data points from the time I staged to the time I turned off the log on the return road. Some of those points have 600 rpm between them. It is unusable data. For comparison, my friend was logging today with Evoscan and he had almost 300 data points for the 1/4 mile...I had 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He had over 600 data points from stage to return road. THAT is datalogging. 16 data points is rubbish. If you plan on spending a lot of time tuning your own car, or plan on more serious modifications, I think something else is in order. I hate to say it because I love the product, but when Evoscan is available I will be going back to ECUflash unless there is an update to the sampling rate.
I hope this was informative.
A short history of my car on the stock tune. My car is a loaded GSR and with me in the car I am over 3800lbs depending on fuel load. She's a pig and I'm not a small guy either. I ran several 13.2-13.3 @ 103-104 passes with a GReddy Ti-C catback exhaust. I later added UR downpipe and test pipe and at a different track ran eight passes at 13.11 @ 105...all within a couple thousandths of a second.
So today my goal was to try a few of the different shelf maps to see what the results were. I will post them in the order I ran them, along with some commentary. I suggest reading the notes and not just the times.
12.806 @ 106.53 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.78 60 foot, I shifted quick but lifted every shift.
12.705 @ 107.34 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.79 60 foot, I flatshifted and hammered the gears pretty hard.
14.235 @ 97.21 - Cobb Stage 1 93 Oct Map. Yeah you are reading that right. The car ran like complete sh*t and I was pretty upset. On the return road I realized I had a service engine light, P1235 Overboost code, and it happened on the 2-step before I even launched. I have had this happen twice now with 2 different maps from 2 different vendors, so it isn't a problem with this map. It only has happened right after I load the map, get on the 2-step, and it throws that code and goes into limp mode. So I never gave the Cobb Stage 1 a fair shake today. I have run that map on the street and it feels strong in the lower rpm ranges, but falls off up top. It actually feels great for around town.
12.68 @ 107.37 - Perrin Stage 2 Map, 5500 2-step. 1.78 60 foot, and I hammered the gears again never lifting off the throttle until the end of the track. This was my best ET of the day.
12.762 @ 107.16 - Same as the previous run, but I lifted on the 1-2 shift, flatshifted 3 and 4.
13.309 @ 102.19 - Stock Map, lifting to shift. 1.87 60 foot. I actually hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear. I was trying to shift at the same rpm that I shift the Perrin map and either they have moved the rev limit up 200 rpm or so, or I just made a mistake. I don't think I lost much ET with that, but maybe it would have been a high .20.
12.842 @ 107.11 - Cobb Stage 2 Map, however I have NOT removed the restrictor pill to the solenoid. The car felt rowdy coming out of the hole on this tune and I spun hard. 1.88 60 foot and I did the same as before...trying to shift where I shift the Perrin map I hit the damn rev limiter in 2nd and 3rd gear. I think this could have been my best pass has I gotten it to hook and didn't hit the limiter, but I probably didn't lose that much ET doing that. I did have lots of high knock values in 4th gear on this run, but the car felt good. I am probably going to stick with this map because I can work with it...Cobb doesn't lock their maps.
Overall I'm pretty happy with the gain. My goal was a 12.50, but I knew that was lofty. Based on today's results, a 0.629 improvement in ET and 5.18 mph. 80-90whp like others are showing? I dunno about that, but I will be putting it on the dyno soon for the hell of it.
The Positives: If you are like I was, you are probably asking yourself if this thing is worth it, or if you should invest in something else. I think that for the average EVO X owner this is the safest and easiest way to get a good tune on the car. You spend $695 and in a really easy 5 minutes you upload a proven map that hundreds of other people are using every day. The car responds immediately and regardless of the horsepower gains or 1/4 mile times, the car becomes more responsive and much more fun to drive. Mail in flashes and a lot of crap like that are going to start to surface with the release of ECUflash and there will be CHEAP tunes...$50, $75, $100. I have seen some really shoddy tunes out there that people have purchased online. A lot of people selling open source tunes have no business tuning a car. So if you are looking for easy and reliable instant gratification, you can't go wrong with the AP. Another huge advantage is the ability to carry multiple maps around with you without lugging your laptop around. I made all my changes today and did all my datalogging with the AP, and left my computer at home. Big plus. Lastly, the Access Tuner Race software allows you to make changes in the tune the same way you would in ECUflash. All the same maps, all the same capability and then some.
The Negatives: EDIT: I'm leaving what I originally posted about the logging, but please note that Cobb is jumping in to lend a hand and it may be user error, or they may look into helping out with the logging. What I originally posted is below. It can't all be perfect can it? As I stated before, I bought this so that I could tune my own car with the ATR software and it was just a bonus that it came with pre-tuned maps. I was an ECUflash user with my VIII and still use it, however I liked the idea of the tuning software and data logger all being part of the same package. The only problem is that the logging is NOT good. First off it is not in a usable format. It is just text in a spreadsheet. You can create your own charts in Excel to make it easier to actually USE that information, but my guess is that most people won't do that. I am working on a definition file for Data Log Lab, which will allow the logs to be viewed in graph form, and it will give you an idea for HP and TQ while you are street tuning. But now you are back to having multiple programs open to view simple data...AP Manager, Excel, Data Log Lab.
But that is only the beginning. When I say simple data...I mean it. The sampling rate is horrible. On all my 1/4 mile runs today, I got 16 data points from the time I left the line to the time I let off the gas. 60 data points from the time I staged to the time I turned off the log on the return road. Some of those points have 600 rpm between them. It is unusable data. For comparison, my friend was logging today with Evoscan and he had almost 300 data points for the 1/4 mile...I had 16!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He had over 600 data points from stage to return road. THAT is datalogging. 16 data points is rubbish. If you plan on spending a lot of time tuning your own car, or plan on more serious modifications, I think something else is in order. I hate to say it because I love the product, but when Evoscan is available I will be going back to ECUflash unless there is an update to the sampling rate.
I hope this was informative.
Last edited by DRAG; Mar 9, 2009 at 02:51 PM.
Mar 8, 2009, 03:08 PM
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Unfortunately it always has compared to evoscan/mitsulogger. Even on the 8/9. I was ProTuning a 9 yesterday and it would have 1 usable sample every couple hundred rpm, like DRAG said, basically useless.
Mar 8, 2009, 06:21 PM
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Stock, but not slipping at all. It is actually my 2nd one. Here is a video a friend took of my 2nd run. Pretty boring...but there it is 
http://vimeo.com/3531635
http://vimeo.com/3531635
Mar 8, 2009, 06:52 PM
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Stock, but not slipping at all. It is actually my 2nd one. Here is a video a friend took of my 2nd run. Pretty boring...but there it is
http://vimeo.com/3531635
http://vimeo.com/3531635
Mar 8, 2009, 09:21 PM
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I haven't been on the dyno yet. I see that you quickly went from your AP to ecuflash. If you don't mind me asking, what was the reasoning for that? The ATR software is just as capable, but the datalogging is what is killing me 
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Mar 9, 2009, 11:01 AM
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Can I ask how many parameters you are attempting to log? Logging 12-13 parameters between the dashboard and logging nets a 5-8Hz sample rate. If you are trying to log every parameter available, the bandwidth will be more than taken up.
How many parameters was your friend logging? Which parameters was he logging? I'm trying to get a feel for what is actually being used.
Thanks,
How many parameters was your friend logging? Which parameters was he logging? I'm trying to get a feel for what is actually being used.
Thanks,
Last edited by Rob@cobbtuning; Mar 9, 2009 at 11:05 AM.
Mar 9, 2009, 11:06 AM
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Knock
timing
rpm
TPS
WGDC
It seems like it logs in spurts of the same RPM in 4-5 sample blocks. I've had conversations with Christian about this before.
Mar 9, 2009, 12:58 PM
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You are welcome to e-mail me with a sample log of the logging software you use so we can get a better understanding of what we are being compared to.
Take care,
Christian.
Mar 9, 2009, 01:08 PM
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Great writeup! Just to confirm your car currently have full turbo-back as the only modifications right? Do you have a boost gauage and A/F meter and the related data for running the Cobb Stage 2 maps?
Mar 9, 2009, 01:12 PM
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Bryan, have you tried using the latest software and firmware? I have tuned several EVO Xs without logging issues using the latest software and firmware. The minimum logging rate that I could see was 4 Hz...and this was logging 16 variables.
You are welcome to e-mail me with a sample log of the logging software you use so we can get a better understanding of what we are being compared to.
Take care,
Christian.
You are welcome to e-mail me with a sample log of the logging software you use so we can get a better understanding of what we are being compared to.
Take care,
Christian.
I can send logs.
4 Hz doesn't really mean anything to me as I am not an engineer. What does 4 Hz equal in a samples/sec?
Mar 9, 2009, 02:24 PM
#14
Yes latest software/firmware. This last one was on a Evo 9 which I could be part of the problem afaik you aren't really supporting that much anymore.
I can send logs.
4 Hz doesn't really mean anything to me as I am not an engineer. What does 4 Hz equal in a samples/sec?
I can send logs.
4 Hz doesn't really mean anything to me as I am not an engineer. What does 4 Hz equal in a samples/sec?
The logging rate of the AccessPORT and the AccessTUNER Professional software are two different possibilities, please let me know what was used to capture the log you e-mail me.
Thanks,
Christian.
Last edited by COBB Tuning; Mar 9, 2009 at 02:27 PM.
Mar 9, 2009, 02:33 PM
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We still support the EVO 8, 9, and 10. Hertz is simply a measurement of frequency, or cycles, per second. A datalog that captures 4 distinct values per second would be considered 4 Hz, a log that captures 10 distinct values per second would be considered 10 Hz. If you have a sample log, and some specific information about what is expected then we can look into making improvements. Thank you for helping us address your concerns.
The logging rate of the AccessPORT and the AccessTUNER Professional software are two different possibilities, please let me know what was used to capture the log you e-mail me.
Thanks,
Christian.
The logging rate of the AccessPORT and the AccessTUNER Professional software are two different possibilities, please let me know what was used to capture the log you e-mail me.
Thanks,
Christian.
I'll move it to email as I interrupted this thread enough.
