Hiboost

iTrader: (9)

Looking at some of the previous examples I'll offer some comments, take them or leave them:

honki24 (E85)
3000 = 9
4000 = 11
5000 = 14
6000 = 14-15
7000 = 14-17
8000 = 16-20
Comments: Timing does seem a bit high at lower RPM's, mainly @ 4000 and lower. This is where going WOT in taller gears at lower RPM's with high load and 28 psi can produce undesirable effects if everything isn't dialed in perfectly to allow that kind of timing. Timing at 5000 seems right on and likely above that you could gain power with more timing up top assuming you are comparing pulls on a dyno.


Justnii (580 whp on E85, so it's a larger turbo obviously)
3000 = 5
4000 = 10
5000 = 14
6000 = 16
7000 = 16
8000 = 16
Comments: The way the timing table is setup from 280-305 load at 5500+ rpm it will always yield 16* of timing advance. You are probably at the limits for timing from 3000-5000 rpm but leaving some power on the table right where E85 wants more timing if you were only running 28 psi. That said in order to reach 580 whp I'm sure you are running well over 30 psi or even over 40 psi boost so timing is probably intentionally left lower, looks like a fun car!


acondon493 (E85)
3000 = 4
4000 = 4
5000 = 6
6000 = 9-10
7000 = 11-15
8000 = 16-17
Comments: The timing map doesn't have a smooth progression where lower loads are higher timing and higher loads are lower timing. Also as RPM's rise you generally want to raise timing or avoid large jumps. These issues will tend to give uneven power delivery depending on the loads you are hitting or even trigger knock when you wouldn't otherwise encounter it. Overall your timing is on the low side for E85, similar to using the stock tables up until 6000 rpm and even lower above that. Having a tuner dial your car in on a dyno is your best bet to be honest.

honki24

iTrader: (23)

I'll come back here soon. I've gone full retard with a 2.4L 10:1 SCR 2.4L on the stock turbo to see what I can do to make this car as torquey and responsive on the streets as possible. It really runs out of breath up top now (28 tapering down to 15 by 7500). This motor needs a new turbo but I think I'll run this turbo to failure first. I've had lots of fueling issues so I'm not ready to finalize timing yet but I'm getting close. I've found that my car wants to be at 12.5-13AFR to avoid knock. Below 12.5 I get increasing knock. I also need to increase my dwell time a ton to keep from breaking up (still not sure I'm out of the weeds on that either). You can see I've sitll got a fuelling issue but I do intend to come back to this timing thing!

RazorLab

iTrader: (8)

oooof, I hope you have some good valves... that is serious AFR.

LetsGetThisDone

iTrader: (1)

Try new sparkplugs with a .020" gap. The "knock" you're seeing when trying (more proper) richer AFR's (11.8-12.2), is probably small or near misfires.

honki24

iTrader: (23)

Thank thank you for the Insight. I have gapped my plugs down. I don't seem to be getting the same issue with the break up. The car is noisy or knock wise at richer than 12 to 1 though. So no one else after all these years has other maps to post up? I'm now trying to work on E85 and water injection and I need to do much more testing.

honki24

iTrader: (23)

Yeh razor, you're right. I've ironed out fueling issues and now have a more stable 12.5:1.

blitzkreig

[QUOTE=Hiboost;11616468]I'll reinforce the warnings about relying on the knock sensor when tuning on E85, since it doesn't consistently knock when you go too lean or add too much timing you can quickly melt an engine before realizing you went too far. It's definitely best to be on a dyno to verify your changes are yielding consistent horsepower gains at each step. Road tuning with Virtual Dyno might be workable if you have a consistent testing location but you are well advised to stay on the conservative side of things in that case as it's just not as accurate as a dyno when comparing runs.

Generally aiming for 12.0 AFR on a wideband with gasoline calibration works well but every car will vary. Probably no leaner than 12.5 is wise or richer than 11.5 since going too rich on E85 can actually trigger some knock. With the effective 105 octane rating and additional cooling properties of E85 you can run elevated boost levels and increased timing within reason. Usually dialing in AFR with conservative boost/timing is a good first step, then set your boost level using conservative timing, then finally adjust timing upwards ensuring that each increase is still yielding consistent power. Generally I would avoid adding any extra timing over pump gas at 4000 or lower, then feed in as much as 3-4* once you reach peak RPM's but only if you see increases in power. Hopefully MIVEC settings will be good enough from your pump gas maps but keep in mind that boost may come on several hundred rpm's sooner so keep those WGDC and boost targets at reasonable levels.

As a baseline here are some timing values at various loads to give an idea of what the factory has as a starting point:

Stock Timing Tables (Pump Gas with 24 psi tapering to 16 psi)
3000 = 4 (240 load)
4000 = 8 (240 load)
5000 = 12 (240 load).
6000 = 16 (220 load)
7000 = 22 (200 load)
8000 = 26 (180 load)
Comments: It's been a while since I dynoed or datalogged a completely stock car but this should be close for comparison sake. When looking at the stock maps, the timing advance drops off quickly as loads rise along with increases in fuel delivery to the point where any increased boost is just fighting you as far as making power. This is one reason why adding parts alone often barely makes any difference until the tune is dialed in properly to match them.


Hmm. My FQ360 Stock map looks the same.