Evo X E85 Conversion How To & Discussion
Dec 14, 2009, 09:40 PM
#1
Evo X E85 Conversion How To & Discussion
The info contained is accurate as of right now. If you stumble on this post in 3 years, please don't PM me to tell me something's changed 
A lot of this info is generic and/or I'm not the most knowledgeable person. If there's something wrong, then I'll update the post. There's a wealth of information in the 8/9 Alternative Fuel section as well.
Introduction
So the first question is always "why?" The best answer is because race gas is $7+ a gallon. E85 is typically rated around 105 octane. E85 has less thermal units than gas, so it takes more E85 to make the car move than gas does. But it makes the car go like stink
. There are also some geopolitical issues here. Oil & gas are non-renewable resources coming from countries that might not have your best interests at heart. Reliance on foreign oil is a bad thing. On the other hand, switching fields to produce biomass for fuel instead of food has increased the costs of foodstuffs in this country and others. It's also a leading cause of deforestation in Brazil (the largest ethanol producer in the world -- from sugar cane rather than corn here). There are alternative methods of ethanol generation that are currently in test. They hopefully will be here soon enough to help with some of these concerns.
E85 also costs less than gas. $0.40 to $0.80 a gallon cheaper than 93 in my case. You use a lot more of it though.
E85 is more knock resistant. You will be able to run more timing, so you'll get a big jump in power and torque.
So once you figure out if you are comfortable running E85, make sure that it can fit your lifestyle. Are there stations along your normal route? Will you have to take a truck and get a 55 gallon drum full for a month of driving (or 2 weeks if you can't keep your foot out of it
)?
Hardware
You're going to need some equipment:
Mandatory items:
Optional Items:
The day of the conversion
Get the tank as low as possible before going to your tuner. You might leave just enough to get a pump gas tune as well. If you can't get the tank empty, then you can drain the tank (there are two drain plugs on the bottom of the tank [at least on the 8/9 there are]).
You might want to do a basic E85 tune then go burn through a tank or two then do a final tune. The more gas there is in the tank, the richer the car will be running. If you tune to the ragged edge with gas in the mix, then the next time you pull with straight E85, you might be even leaner (since it's now mostly E85). This would be bad
Tuning
This is the weakest section for me, so don't hold your breath
One thing to note is that while a road tune will mostly work, tuning on E85 is safest if done on a dyno. Since E85 is very knock resistant, you potentially won't see any knock when advancing the timing while tuning. Without the feedback of the dyno, you might be adding timing, but not getting any increase in power. This can ventilate your block.
You want to shoot for around 12 AFR. E85 will knock when too lean and too rich. If you tune for 11.5 (like pump gas) and then do a pull on E85, you'll likely see knock. Lean it out some and then you'll see no knock. Lean it out more and then you'll get knock -- maybe. Be careful here.
You should be able to increase the timing across the board for E85. 3-4*. This will likely put you into new load cells. You'll need to change the fuel map for those new load cells
You will have to adjust the injector scaling as well for the fuel trims. There's another post in this forum about that.
See told you it would be weak
Day to day E85 in the X
It drives like a normal car. With more power. The HUD displays the wrong MPG, so don't go by that. You'll get 150-180 miles on a tank. If you have a test pipe it will smell sweeter rather than the gassy smell. You also won't have as much smoke blowing out your tailpipe(s).
If you live far-ish away from an E85 station you will need to consider this. You might need to carry gas cans with you if you drive a lot. Securing them is important.
People at gas stations might look at you funny and the station people might run out and try to warn you. I've not it happen yet though.
Right now, without an accessport, there's no real map switching unless you're carrying a laptop all the time. If you HAVE to run pump gas (93) for a short term, you can, but you will have to stay out of boost. Short shift, 3500rpm max. Light throttle. Get E85 back in there as quickly as possible. If you do have a pump gas map, try and run the tank as low as possible. Get to 0 bars left and then keep on going. Then fill up with gas and switch maps.
Cold starts are an issue with E85. You might have to crank longer. There are some things in the tune you can tweak to help this (although the maps for the X might not have these tables yet, I've not looked). Hot starts can also be an issue. When starting cold, you have to warm the car up. It feels very boggy when it's not warmed up.
One huge issue: In some parts of the country, the E85 blend changes from E80ish to E70 in the winter months. You'll see your AFRs go rich when this conversion happens. You will need to change your tune when/if this conversion happens because the timing and AFR you tuned for will no longer be correct or safe on this fuel. You might need to head back to your tuner and get a third map.
Tracking with E85
You're going to use a LOT of gas. 30-50% more per session than you used to with pump gas. It is very unlikely that your track will have E85 available. Bring E85 with you. Lots and lots of E85. Think 20-30g a day assuming 4 25 minute sessions. Also expect to be going wicked fast on the straights And you'll have more torque to pull out of corners.
ok that's enough for now. As we flush out more details I'll update the post.
A lot of this info is generic and/or I'm not the most knowledgeable person. If there's something wrong, then I'll update the post. There's a wealth of information in the 8/9 Alternative Fuel section as well.
- Introduction
- Hardware
- The day of the conversion
- Tuning
- Day to day E85 in the X
- Tracking with E85
Introduction
So the first question is always "why?" The best answer is because race gas is $7+ a gallon. E85 is typically rated around 105 octane. E85 has less thermal units than gas, so it takes more E85 to make the car move than gas does. But it makes the car go like stink
. There are also some geopolitical issues here. Oil & gas are non-renewable resources coming from countries that might not have your best interests at heart. Reliance on foreign oil is a bad thing. On the other hand, switching fields to produce biomass for fuel instead of food has increased the costs of foodstuffs in this country and others. It's also a leading cause of deforestation in Brazil (the largest ethanol producer in the world -- from sugar cane rather than corn here). There are alternative methods of ethanol generation that are currently in test. They hopefully will be here soon enough to help with some of these concerns.E85 also costs less than gas. $0.40 to $0.80 a gallon cheaper than 93 in my case. You use a lot more of it though.
E85 is more knock resistant. You will be able to run more timing, so you'll get a big jump in power and torque.
So once you figure out if you are comfortable running E85, make sure that it can fit your lifestyle. Are there stations along your normal route? Will you have to take a truck and get a 55 gallon drum full for a month of driving (or 2 weeks if you can't keep your foot out of it
)? Hardware
You're going to need some equipment:
Mandatory items:
- Injectors. For a stock turbo car you might be able to get away with 800cc injectors. You might want to add some headroom and get 1000cc injectors. For big turbo cars, you need bigger still.
- Fuel pump. You will need a new fuel pump. The walbro upgrade is common. If you have a big turbo you might need a double pumper.
- Fuel Pump Installation kit. For a single pump, BlaqOps, HBSpeed and UltimateRacing all make a kit. The BlaqOps kit is the only one that's plug and play for E85. The HBSpeed kit doesn't come with a line and the UR kit's line isn't compatible with E85. You can also source a Alcohol submersed line if you go with the UR or HBSpeed kit.
- Fuel pump sock filter. The X stock sock isn't great for E85. The 8/9 sock is apparently better.
- Fuel filter. The X's stock fuel filter is in the stock fuel pump (which you'll be tossing). You cannot use a generic fuel filter. It should be stainless steel or anodized aluminum. It cannot use a paper element (E85 is hydroscopic, it gather water -- water + paper = clogged injectors). Ultimate Racing has a kit that has the special fuel line connectors for attaching to the fuel rail. There has been a report of it deforming under high pressure. Most alcohol compatible filters have AN- fittings. I found two that use a normal barb fitting. Jegs carries one. Jay Racing carries a Golan unit. The Golan unit appears to flow better and filter better (it's what I bought). A cleanable one is better than one you throw away since you're going to need to clean it out about 500-1000 miles after conversion (E85 will loosen up the crud in your fuel system and the filter should catch it).
- Fuel Filter lines. Plan ahead here. The lines onto the fuel rail are hard plastic lines and putting the fuel filter into these lines is a pain. They use a 5/16" fuel line connector. You can find 5/16" to 3/8" connectors/hard lines at Autozone or Oreilly, but they aren't cheap ($20-25 each). Then connect the included barb fitting (it's a heat shrink fitting) to a piece of fuel hose to connect to the fuel filter and then the same on the other end to the hard fuel line coming from the tank. **Update** You can buy these to build your own line: http://www.midwayautosupply.com/pm-4...t-800-084.aspx
Optional Items:
- Wideband. Honestly, this should be a required item, but some people are dumb, so I'll put it under optional.
- Zeitronix ECA (Details). This will tell you how much ethanol is in the gas you're running. This isn't cheap, around $200 + the flex fuel sensor ($100 to $350). However it sure beats wondering if you're running rich because of the ethanol content or a boost leak. Installing the flex fuel sensor will require some though as it has a 5/16 fitting and a 3/8 fuel fitting on it (you'll need another adapter, or use one of the lines that you cut to install the fuel filter.
- Fuel rail. If you're on a big turbo with huge injectors and a double pumper, you might need to think about a fuel rail.
- Replacement fuel pump relay. About $25. Part Number 8627A011. The stock relay goes bad and the fuel pump never kicks into high voltage mode... meaning a lean condition = a new motor. This really should be a recall item for Mitsu.
The day of the conversion
Get the tank as low as possible before going to your tuner. You might leave just enough to get a pump gas tune as well. If you can't get the tank empty, then you can drain the tank (there are two drain plugs on the bottom of the tank [at least on the 8/9 there are]).
You might want to do a basic E85 tune then go burn through a tank or two then do a final tune. The more gas there is in the tank, the richer the car will be running. If you tune to the ragged edge with gas in the mix, then the next time you pull with straight E85, you might be even leaner (since it's now mostly E85). This would be bad
Tuning
This is the weakest section for me, so don't hold your breath
One thing to note is that while a road tune will mostly work, tuning on E85 is safest if done on a dyno. Since E85 is very knock resistant, you potentially won't see any knock when advancing the timing while tuning. Without the feedback of the dyno, you might be adding timing, but not getting any increase in power. This can ventilate your block.
You want to shoot for around 12 AFR. E85 will knock when too lean and too rich. If you tune for 11.5 (like pump gas) and then do a pull on E85, you'll likely see knock. Lean it out some and then you'll see no knock. Lean it out more and then you'll get knock -- maybe. Be careful here.
You should be able to increase the timing across the board for E85. 3-4*. This will likely put you into new load cells. You'll need to change the fuel map for those new load cells
You will have to adjust the injector scaling as well for the fuel trims. There's another post in this forum about that.
See told you it would be weak
Day to day E85 in the X
It drives like a normal car. With more power
. The HUD displays the wrong MPG, so don't go by that. You'll get 150-180 miles on a tank. If you have a test pipe it will smell sweeter rather than the gassy smell. You also won't have as much smoke blowing out your tailpipe(s).If you live far-ish away from an E85 station you will need to consider this. You might need to carry gas cans with you if you drive a lot. Securing them is important.
People at gas stations might look at you funny and the station people might run out and try to warn you. I've not it happen yet though
.Right now, without an accessport, there's no real map switching unless you're carrying a laptop all the time. If you HAVE to run pump gas (93) for a short term, you can, but you will have to stay out of boost. Short shift, 3500rpm max. Light throttle. Get E85 back in there as quickly as possible. If you do have a pump gas map, try and run the tank as low as possible. Get to 0 bars left and then keep on going. Then fill up with gas and switch maps.
Cold starts are an issue with E85. You might have to crank longer. There are some things in the tune you can tweak to help this (although the maps for the X might not have these tables yet, I've not looked). Hot starts can also be an issue. When starting cold, you have to warm the car up. It feels very boggy when it's not warmed up.
One huge issue: In some parts of the country, the E85 blend changes from E80ish to E70 in the winter months. You'll see your AFRs go rich when this conversion happens. You will need to change your tune when/if this conversion happens because the timing and AFR you tuned for will no longer be correct or safe on this fuel. You might need to head back to your tuner and get a third map.
Tracking with E85
You're going to use a LOT of gas. 30-50% more per session than you used to with pump gas. It is very unlikely that your track will have E85 available. Bring E85 with you. Lots and lots of E85. Think 20-30g a day assuming 4 25 minute sessions. Also expect to be going wicked fast on the straights
And you'll have more torque to pull out of corners.ok that's enough for now. As we flush out more details I'll update the post.
Last edited by goofygrin; Dec 30, 2009 at 09:00 PM.
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Dec 15, 2009, 12:16 PM
#12
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If running rich were a big problem then we'd find many stock Evos sitting on the side of the road. I'm tuned on 70 and won't be worrying about running 80+ in the Summer.
The only thing I'd add to the FAQ is that your stock clutch might hate you, especially in the Winter. lol.
The only thing I'd add to the FAQ is that your stock clutch might hate you, especially in the Winter. lol.
Dec 15, 2009, 01:23 PM
#13
Good job Mr Goofster! A couple of items re the Blaqops single pump kit. It comes with the in-tank sock. It also replaces the under-hood fuel line with one that incorporates a fuel filter.
BTW, I have made the switch with the Cobb AP and the car runs great.
BTW, I have made the switch with the Cobb AP and the car runs great.
Dec 15, 2009, 02:45 PM
#14
Evolving Member
The only thing I would add is a re-tune is a must after the first E-85 tune. Everyone out of GST, myself included picked up around 20 hp on the re-tune. Figure the fist tune is actually a 80% 20% mix.
