stick v paddles
Dec 7, 2009, 10:11 AM
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stick v paddles
Fella's.
Here's a Road & Track article f/ 11/19/09 that a member on 1addicts posted about stick v paddles gear boxes that I thought you'd all be interested in. Sorry if it's a repost... Here's the text in case the article on-line get locked up.
When you talk about the thrill of driving, it’s hard to ignore its active elements: feathering the throttle, trail braking, turning the steering wheel into a gentle bend, or grabbing a clean heel-toe downshift, for example. But lately, it seems like these connections are being reduced or even eliminated. Cable throttle linkages are replaced with potentiometers and wires, steering is electronically boosted and transmissions shift for themselves. While these changes are supposed to increase driving enjoyment, we asked ourselves, which is better—pushing a clutch and manipulating a lever or pulling a paddle?
To find out, we rowed through these transmissions back to back and went into analysis mode. The criteria would be simple: shift times, ease of operation and how well the system meets driver expectations over a short, but tight, autocross course. Our subjects would be a pair of 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions—the GSR features a 5-speed manual gearbox, while the MR sports a 6-speed twin-clutch sequential gearbox called TC-SST (Twin Clutch Sport Shift Transmission) that can be actuated via steering wheel paddles or a center console-mounted shifter. For the purpose of diversity, a pair of 2009 Porsche Cayman S models, with and without PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe), as well as a pair of 2010 Lamborghini Gallardo Balbonis, equipped with a gated 6-speed manual and 6-speed e.gear system, made cameos.
Manual
The manual-equipped GSR was the first through our course. The familiarity with the shifter’s H-pattern gates and clutch was comforting. Downshifting into 1st as you approached the tight corners was easy and second nature with the Evo’s lateral torque biasing system pushing the car through to the next straight.
If you drive a manual transmission enough, you begin to develop a rhythm. While you’re looking ahead to the entry of the upcoming corner, you’re searching for turn-in, brake and shift points. When you reach those points, you begin rev-matching back through the pattern. Heel-toe, slide the lever, release clutch, heel-toe again, slide the lever again, release the clutch and throttle up. As the tach needle sweeps close to the limiter, push the clutch in while pulling back on the shifter. It’s easy enough, but at the same time, it’s a complicated and coordinated dance with three pedals, a steering wheel and gearshift lever.
As a bonus, it’s a user-adjustable system. The shifts are as hard or as smooth as you want them to be. You don’t have to wait for a computer to dictate when you can shift, and you even get feedback—shift feel changes as the transmission oil gets hot!
Even still, the twin-clutch automated manual does have its advantages. A consequence for all this flexibility is that the clumsy of foot or hand can also miss a shift. But more critically, we were approximately 1 second faster in the MR than the GSR on a 50-sec. course. This was an immediate drop and the data show that significant time was gained at launch and in all the hard acceleration areas. Being able to keep both hands on the wheel and the ability to consistently utilize left-foot braking was a factor as well.
One thing we noticed with the Evo MR TC-SST and Porsche PDK systems was an inconsistency that seemed to be based on transmission temperature. After six runs, our Evo MR would not execute a launch-control acceleration run and our Cayman S PDK began to exhibit slower upshifts with lazy clutch actuation; other times it would shift early. Not an issue while driving around town, but disconcerting when you’re lined up at a competition event.
And so it stands: If driving is about operating a vehicle, the standard transmission is the better choice; you have full control and it’s a much simpler system. For the driving enthusiast, it’s the clear choice.
Paddle-Shift Manual
Say what you will, but the fastest and the most consistent way to swap gears is with a paddle-shift manual transmission. Period. Just as with anti-lock brakes, no human foot can cycle the brakes as quickly as a computer to slow down the car. And taking technology to its fullest potential, the fastest way around a racetrack could be with a computer at the helm, not a human. But before my email box gets spammed with complaints about how a Road & Track editor can profess such a concept, please allow me to explain.
There has always been controversy about how much technology should come between the driver and car, and whether that technology enhances or detracts from the driving experience. This debate can be addressed by asking more specific questions. If the singular goal is to get around the track as fast as possible, then the transmission should be mechanized. Witness the shift times of the pair of Evos we used in our test. The paddle-shift manual on average took about 0.25 sec. to shift, while the conventional manual gearchanges were closer to 0.40 sec. No human can match a machine’s consistency and accuracy. Further, the Evo’s TC-SST helped maintain the car’s forward momentum as it changed up through the gears, an added bonus for quicker acceleration. The advantages of paddle shift not only proved themselves in our autocross test—you can see the evidence in any top-rung racing series where mechanized transmissions have become the norm.
If the question, however, is how much enjoyment can be had with a paddle-shift transmission, then the argument can become convoluted. Accelerating the quickest and recording the fastest lap time for the ultimate adrenaline rush? Paddle shift wins. Want to feel more accomplished and connected with the car as you perform heel-toe downshifts? Manual wins. A pair of Lamborghini Gallardos we had recently came with both types of transmission. For the street, I’d pick the Gallardo with the gated shifter so I can be part of the process of making the car accelerate, brake and corner and at the same time hear the clicks from the metal shift gate as I try to match the engine speed and gear. For the track, give me the paddle shift, because I want to go as fast as possible.
So, in fact, there isn’t a debate. It’s all about what you are looking for and for what purpose.
I've mainly had sticks in my modern cars, with the exception of the '03 Passat W8 which had VW's then new steptronic - shifts were slow and jerky and wouldn't down shift when you wanted it to. Haven't driven the X MR w/ SST, but I've driven a GT-R, e90 M3 w/ M-DCT and a Porsche 911 Carrera w/ PDK, and I really like the idea of twin clutch auto gear boxes w/ paddle shifters. I like not having to take one hand of the wheel to shift, and I miss a gear now and then on a MT. When I'm tired and lazy, it'd be nice to just put it in drive and go home.
Saying all that, I'd find it really hard to give up the 6MT in my 135i. All the arguments about being more involved and having ultimate control are so true. It'd be really interesting to be able to drive two Evo X's built exactly the same way - either a GSR or an MR - one with 6MT and one w/ 6SST.
Here's a Road & Track article f/ 11/19/09 that a member on 1addicts posted about stick v paddles gear boxes that I thought you'd all be interested in. Sorry if it's a repost... Here's the text in case the article on-line get locked up.
When you talk about the thrill of driving, it’s hard to ignore its active elements: feathering the throttle, trail braking, turning the steering wheel into a gentle bend, or grabbing a clean heel-toe downshift, for example. But lately, it seems like these connections are being reduced or even eliminated. Cable throttle linkages are replaced with potentiometers and wires, steering is electronically boosted and transmissions shift for themselves. While these changes are supposed to increase driving enjoyment, we asked ourselves, which is better—pushing a clutch and manipulating a lever or pulling a paddle?
To find out, we rowed through these transmissions back to back and went into analysis mode. The criteria would be simple: shift times, ease of operation and how well the system meets driver expectations over a short, but tight, autocross course. Our subjects would be a pair of 2009 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolutions—the GSR features a 5-speed manual gearbox, while the MR sports a 6-speed twin-clutch sequential gearbox called TC-SST (Twin Clutch Sport Shift Transmission) that can be actuated via steering wheel paddles or a center console-mounted shifter. For the purpose of diversity, a pair of 2009 Porsche Cayman S models, with and without PDK (Porsche Doppelkupplungsgetriebe), as well as a pair of 2010 Lamborghini Gallardo Balbonis, equipped with a gated 6-speed manual and 6-speed e.gear system, made cameos.
Manual
The manual-equipped GSR was the first through our course. The familiarity with the shifter’s H-pattern gates and clutch was comforting. Downshifting into 1st as you approached the tight corners was easy and second nature with the Evo’s lateral torque biasing system pushing the car through to the next straight.
If you drive a manual transmission enough, you begin to develop a rhythm. While you’re looking ahead to the entry of the upcoming corner, you’re searching for turn-in, brake and shift points. When you reach those points, you begin rev-matching back through the pattern. Heel-toe, slide the lever, release clutch, heel-toe again, slide the lever again, release the clutch and throttle up. As the tach needle sweeps close to the limiter, push the clutch in while pulling back on the shifter. It’s easy enough, but at the same time, it’s a complicated and coordinated dance with three pedals, a steering wheel and gearshift lever.
As a bonus, it’s a user-adjustable system. The shifts are as hard or as smooth as you want them to be. You don’t have to wait for a computer to dictate when you can shift, and you even get feedback—shift feel changes as the transmission oil gets hot!
Even still, the twin-clutch automated manual does have its advantages. A consequence for all this flexibility is that the clumsy of foot or hand can also miss a shift. But more critically, we were approximately 1 second faster in the MR than the GSR on a 50-sec. course. This was an immediate drop and the data show that significant time was gained at launch and in all the hard acceleration areas. Being able to keep both hands on the wheel and the ability to consistently utilize left-foot braking was a factor as well.
One thing we noticed with the Evo MR TC-SST and Porsche PDK systems was an inconsistency that seemed to be based on transmission temperature. After six runs, our Evo MR would not execute a launch-control acceleration run and our Cayman S PDK began to exhibit slower upshifts with lazy clutch actuation; other times it would shift early. Not an issue while driving around town, but disconcerting when you’re lined up at a competition event.
And so it stands: If driving is about operating a vehicle, the standard transmission is the better choice; you have full control and it’s a much simpler system. For the driving enthusiast, it’s the clear choice.
Paddle-Shift Manual
Say what you will, but the fastest and the most consistent way to swap gears is with a paddle-shift manual transmission. Period. Just as with anti-lock brakes, no human foot can cycle the brakes as quickly as a computer to slow down the car. And taking technology to its fullest potential, the fastest way around a racetrack could be with a computer at the helm, not a human. But before my email box gets spammed with complaints about how a Road & Track editor can profess such a concept, please allow me to explain.
There has always been controversy about how much technology should come between the driver and car, and whether that technology enhances or detracts from the driving experience. This debate can be addressed by asking more specific questions. If the singular goal is to get around the track as fast as possible, then the transmission should be mechanized. Witness the shift times of the pair of Evos we used in our test. The paddle-shift manual on average took about 0.25 sec. to shift, while the conventional manual gearchanges were closer to 0.40 sec. No human can match a machine’s consistency and accuracy. Further, the Evo’s TC-SST helped maintain the car’s forward momentum as it changed up through the gears, an added bonus for quicker acceleration. The advantages of paddle shift not only proved themselves in our autocross test—you can see the evidence in any top-rung racing series where mechanized transmissions have become the norm.
If the question, however, is how much enjoyment can be had with a paddle-shift transmission, then the argument can become convoluted. Accelerating the quickest and recording the fastest lap time for the ultimate adrenaline rush? Paddle shift wins. Want to feel more accomplished and connected with the car as you perform heel-toe downshifts? Manual wins. A pair of Lamborghini Gallardos we had recently came with both types of transmission. For the street, I’d pick the Gallardo with the gated shifter so I can be part of the process of making the car accelerate, brake and corner and at the same time hear the clicks from the metal shift gate as I try to match the engine speed and gear. For the track, give me the paddle shift, because I want to go as fast as possible.
So, in fact, there isn’t a debate. It’s all about what you are looking for and for what purpose.
I've mainly had sticks in my modern cars, with the exception of the '03 Passat W8 which had VW's then new steptronic - shifts were slow and jerky and wouldn't down shift when you wanted it to. Haven't driven the X MR w/ SST, but I've driven a GT-R, e90 M3 w/ M-DCT and a Porsche 911 Carrera w/ PDK, and I really like the idea of twin clutch auto gear boxes w/ paddle shifters. I like not having to take one hand of the wheel to shift, and I miss a gear now and then on a MT. When I'm tired and lazy, it'd be nice to just put it in drive and go home.
Saying all that, I'd find it really hard to give up the 6MT in my 135i. All the arguments about being more involved and having ultimate control are so true. It'd be really interesting to be able to drive two Evo X's built exactly the same way - either a GSR or an MR - one with 6MT and one w/ 6SST.
Dec 7, 2009, 10:19 AM
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Wouldn't swap to a GSR if someone gave me a million dollars. I <3 my MR and my TC-SST. About the only thing I wish it had, were multi-capable paddles. As in, I with both paddles could do both up and down shifting. If you watch a rally car driver, you'll notice it's all paddle shifting on the right, pull to up shift, and push to down shift. If you could shift both directions with both of the paddles, that would be ideal!
OK, for a million dollars, maybe I would. Then I'd go out and trade the GSR back in for an MR
OK, for a million dollars, maybe I would. Then I'd go out and trade the GSR back in for an MR
Dec 7, 2009, 10:27 AM
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manual tranny ftmfw. i couldnt force me to trade in for an auto evo. if i wanted a car to cruise around town without worrying about shifting i woulda bought a benz or a buick. driving evos is about driving experience and performance otherwise we wudnt put up with the ricer and race boy comments all day. if you wana really drive your car, get a stick.
however, just personal opinion of course
however, just personal opinion of course
Dec 7, 2009, 10:57 AM
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manual tranny ftmfw. i couldnt force me to trade in for an auto evo. if i wanted a car to cruise around town without worrying about shifting i woulda bought a benz or a buick. driving evos is about driving experience and performance otherwise we wudnt put up with the ricer and race boy comments all day. if you wana really drive your car, get a stick.
Dec 7, 2009, 11:08 AM
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I have had both and I like both but I feel that comments about one or the other is the be all end all are ignorant, unlike this well written (non-fanboy) article.
Dec 7, 2009, 11:16 AM
#7
having driven road race cars (real ones hee he) I would never choose to have a manual gearbox again if I was going for the best way around the racetrack..
anything high power i love paddle shift, i LOVE LOVE LOVE our GTR because of it.... I would probably take an evo x mr over my GSR...
that being said, i still love driving a manual gearbox!
cb
anything high power i love paddle shift, i LOVE LOVE LOVE our GTR because of it.... I would probably take an evo x mr over my GSR...
that being said, i still love driving a manual gearbox!
cb
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Dec 7, 2009, 11:27 AM
#8
Wouldn't swap to a GSR if someone gave me a million dollars. I <3 my MR and my TC-SST. About the only thing I wish it had, were multi-capable paddles. As in, I with both paddles could do both up and down shifting. If you watch a rally car driver, you'll notice it's all paddle shifting on the right, pull to up shift, and push to down shift. If you could shift both directions with both of the paddles, that would be ideal!
OK, for a million dollars, maybe I would. Then I'd go out and trade the GSR back in for an MR
OK, for a million dollars, maybe I would. Then I'd go out and trade the GSR back in for an MR
's) control.Me personally, I don't think I could go back to a manual and enjoy it for going as fast as possible. 5 speeds are great fun, but when it comes to being consistent and going quick, nothing compares to the dual clutch paddle shifters.
There are a lot of people who are ignorant (both ways) towards this issue. What bothers me is some of them dismiss the SST without ever trying it. Driving the SST in Super Sport mode with the Paddle Shifters is a whole new experience. Very mind blowing. Too bad they refuse to try it.
Last edited by migs647; Dec 7, 2009 at 11:30 AM.
Dec 7, 2009, 11:43 AM
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That is huge for this guy to say this... he has had a ton of problems with his car... but we're all convinced it was because of things out of his (and 's) control.
Me personally, I don't think I could go back to a manual and enjoy it for going as fast as possible. 5 speeds are great fun, but when it comes to being consistent and going quick, nothing compares to the dual clutch paddle shifters.
There are a lot of people who are ignorant (both ways) towards this issue. What bothers me is some of them dismiss the SST without ever trying it. Driving the SST in Super Sport mode with the Paddle Shifters is a whole new experience. Very mind blowing. Too bad they refuse to try it.
's) control.Me personally, I don't think I could go back to a manual and enjoy it for going as fast as possible. 5 speeds are great fun, but when it comes to being consistent and going quick, nothing compares to the dual clutch paddle shifters.
There are a lot of people who are ignorant (both ways) towards this issue. What bothers me is some of them dismiss the SST without ever trying it. Driving the SST in Super Sport mode with the Paddle Shifters is a whole new experience. Very mind blowing. Too bad they refuse to try it.
Also, any of you guys ever seen a pro rally car with a manual tranny these days? That says something that they don't exist anymore.
I'm definitely not biased, because I prefer a manual transmission, and my truck is a manual. But I like the TC-SST for what it is. I also like this article for pointing out the true differences between the two!
Last edited by Webman; Dec 7, 2009 at 01:04 PM.
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