Biggiesacks

A dyno is good, especially if your just looking for "theoretically fast", but if you want to actually go fast the other methods achieve real world results.

mines5

Fine tuning the power curve , setting up the fuel curve and listening to knock can be done in short time on the dyno as compared to road tuning. Some thing broke off, popped off , oil leaks , spills during a road tuning session will result in wastage of time while on a dyno you can fix that easily and save time.

The vehicle's true behavior and potential is unlocked on the road as well as owner's driving style.

How much time you guys take to ROAD TUNE a car from scratch to fully tuned ?

RightSaid fred

Half an hour.

MinusPrevious

iTrader: (3)

Ive been through no less than 5 road tunes by my Tuner. 1/2 to set-up (02 sensor / map sensor / lap top connection)

No less than 1 hour of actual road tuning (1.5 hours minimum)

RightSaid fred

Maybe you need a definition of the word "tuner"?

MinusPrevious

iTrader: (3)

He is (was) considered the best So.Cal Road Tuner (he retired). Thorough is his middle name

Heres his tune thread below which garnered much respect from the tuning pros & those in the know. This is why it takes at least an hour to tune!!!

https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ec...-tune-evo.html

Biggiesacks

I'm constantly messing around with my car using different mods and I just hit my usual spots for road tuning to get everything dialed back in. Sure beats paying a few hundred every time to rent a dyno. Also most tracks I know of have a test and tune night. For a tuner running a business a dyno makes sense, for the hobbyist tuning his own car it's a good option but not necessary to achieve your goals.

03whitegsr

iTrader: (8)

They all have value and different setups can benefit from one over the other.

A dyno has a huge benefit when getting the timing curve right. A degree here or there, you'll never pick up on the road. There is just too much filtering involved with calculating TQ/HP from RPM and that smoothing will hide these small changes in the error of the test method. On the dyno though, it can be plain as day if it needed that small change in timing. It's also good to be on the dyno if you are the type to pull plugs between runs. The motor doesn't get nearly as hot and you can have everything sitting easily ready to go. Hell, a second person can pull the plugs and have them ready after you review the log.

But the dyno doesn't accurately match mechanical load, airflow, and heat loads on an engine. That's where tuning on the road/track comes in. If the timing and fuel curves are right from dyno tuning, it's often simply a matter of shifting that whole curve up or down a bit to find that last bit of power on the track. Or if you find heat soak to be an issue on the road, you tweak the IAT based comps on the road, something you won't catch on the dyno. Or if you have a forward facing turbo, sorry, that dyno will NEVER match 100+mph airflow and it WILL impact your fuel map; you'll have to fix the fuel map on track. Or road racing and dealing with higher oil/coolant temperatures...it's going to be difficult to replicate on a normal dyno but can be easily seen in collected on track data.

But for the normal street Evo, 300-500HP car made for quick stop light pulls and freeway on ramps, street tuning can easily get the job done with far less expense then the dyno. Even 600+ HP cars can be done this way, although the data rate tends to get problematic when you only grab a short number of samples in a pull without resorting to 130+mph pulls on public roads.

4g63sidewinder

Always a check on the street is needed...Just to be sure

EvolTweetyBird

A dyno is good for getting a good base, but it's a controlled environment. On the street or track, it can be a whole nother story. What looked great on the dyno could be doo doo out in the real world. And it's a one time thing. Tomorrow can change everything.


My son and I race ours, and tune can change multiple times during the day. What works in the morning vs late afternoon may not. And our setups for the track would be near worthless on the street.

Dynos can't provide a real world, there are too many changes to deal with that a dyno can't provide. Airflow at high speeds on the car, track/tire/weather/fuel conditions just to name a few. Not even getting into engine mechanics or trans/diff gearing and set up.

Funny, I'm old school, we didn't have changes made with a couple clicks of a laptop. It was all done by seat of the pants driving and guessing a lot of the time. Sometimes seat of the pants can be better then any dyno.

I've set up race cars since I was a child, and between my son with his electronics wizz bang stuff and my seat of the pants, we work well together. Better then a dyno, either of us can drive a car, tell what's missing or off, and then together work out a fix. At Grid Life last year at Road Atlanta, we would have been screwed had we stuck with a dyno tune. Tinkering with a few things, and not just tuning, we cut 7 seconds off our lap time. That was seat of the pants tuning. Can't imagine the time or money it would have cost to dyno the car for all those tweaks, and even that wouldn't have corrected for suspension and such adjustments. Heck we detuned the engines performance to run faster.

There is more to getting the most out of your car then some dyno sheet. I love those folks, the one's waving their 500+ horsepower dyno sheets to impress everyone. Meanwhile we sit around 340, and smoke them on the track.