robyn402

iTrader: (3)

lol thanks its been a long week

evo_soul

I am putting together a semi interview style Q&A session between myself and the creators of pulstar plugs, some of the questions are specific between their product and our lancer(and related) engines.

Are there any questions that you think deserved to be asked in regards to their product.

let me know, the cut off is the 21st

Blacksheepdj

iTrader: (88)

Sweet! I'll be interested in hearing his opinions/claims about the 4B11, especially.

evo_soul

one small section of spark theory that I am thinking about is the benefits to the CVT, and the lancers High TQ low RPM profile. Since our CVT operates at very low levels, I believe/speculate that these plugs, may produce a higher performance curve from low end to high that will be distinct enough to warrant a closer performance look and possible tuning applications.

I think that the MIVEC and the CVT will be an interesting test for fuel economy figures. As well as trying to achieve good peak HP and TQ figures with the either transmission.

I consider myself impartial but can be guilty of being optimistic. The science behind the plugs if they hold up is one thing, but with any product, quality and durability something else. This is where companies like NGK and Bosch have the advantage in their product quality, they have worked out problems, refined their product. Its the advantage you have when you are segment leader. Should the product show promise, then Pulstar has another advantage of holding patents for the technology, the next evolutionary step, even if Pulstar has quality issues, if the technology is proven, it will make Pulstar a take over target and or an investment target with people wanting to invest.

Something to think about.

But here we are, testing phase, stomping ground. If I see gains, I will post it, If I dont , I wont hesitate to lead the suffering old dog behind the shed shotgun in hand. If my results are inconclusive, then they will be reported as such.

My testing will expand to Lancer 4b11, the EVO X, RSX and Type S, and finally a Subaru WRX STI. before you boo me for the STI, its only because the dyno shop is a Subaru Haven that I have access to so many in one place.

Hydrolikz

Subaru WRX STI


jus playin'

evo_soul

would it make you feel better if i tested the WRX last lol, apparently the shop when i first told them about it, they said no out right when working with some of the Subarus results in an hour to do a plug swap, its that complicated and tedious.

Although i havent worked with Subarus much but I think its because of the way their engine is mounted. its a different style for a block i guess.

In the end they agreed

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

It's the fact it's a boxer motor. You have to remove the intercooler and the intake manifold just to get to the spark plugs.

arnold16890

iTrader: (3)

just saw an ad of Pulstar in Popular Science mag, and it led me to searching here and finding this thread.
Props to evo soul for putting so much effort in testing these plugs, i'll be patiently waiting for your results.

greatgonzer

iTrader: (3)

Ok... I have these Pulstar plugs in my EVO IX. I actually even live in the city (Albuquerque, NM) that invented them and went down personally to the factory to see them being made and talk with the owner and fabricators.

Here is my experience.

1: awesome guys to talk with, Mike, Nathan, ect... all know thier stuff. Nathan is an ex-XSpower employee who now works for Pulstar. All of them were great, showed me around the factory and we talked for nearly 2 hours.

2: they gave me a set of plugs. I drove home (about 30minutes) got home and tried to install them. Realized that they gave me the wrong plugs. Too short. They gave me the base Lancer plugs and not the EVO plugs. I returned the next day and they told me that they would have the correct ones gapped and ready for me.

3: I got the correct size. They appologized and said that thier part numbers were incorrect and that they were accidentally giving out EVO guys the wrong plugs by sending them stock Lancer plugs. ok, at least I found this out prior to putting them in my vehicle.

4: I then installed the correct plugs. Ran great (for about a week). They my EVO started mis-firing terribly with the CEL light coming on. I removed the plugs and found that they were all gapped differently. Some at 50! another was set to 42, the others were both in the 30s?!!! They guys at pulstar told me that they had gapped them for me at 26? I felt stupid. I should have checked the Gap prior to inserting them into the engine. Now I will never really know if Pulstar hag gapped them correctly orginally or if there was something else going on. what was happening? So I re-gapped them and put them back. in.

5: awesome power re-juvinated my EVO. It felt like it had new legs (for about another week). Then the mis-fire came back. I pulled the plugs and the gap was way off again. I looked closely at the plugs and noticed that the tips are being eaten away causing my gap to increase. After only a month with these $100 plugs and the tips are blasting themselves apart....

So today I am going to take them all out. Check them very carefully to ensure that what I say is the truth. Then I will put back in NGK and go back to pullstar and ask them some more questions... I so much want to be a believer of this product... But lets see. If they only last a month before the tip wears down. then that is an expensive lesson...

Blacksheepdj

iTrader: (88)

Thanks for the very good, professional review. Sorry to hear about the troubles with them. That's a definite negative for Pulstar, and unfortunately it's something that evo soul will never find in his dyno testing (which is the long-term ownership testing).

nunyas

iTrader: (2)

sounds like the plugs might be "too hot" for the boosted Evo engines...

evo_soul

lol never say never, we have enough plugs to go around and test in a lancer and other cars,

I will be popping a pair in my mazda as well as one of the EVOSOUL cars, lol I have 30,000 km on my car after 6 months, beleive me, I will get some long term testing going on.

But at the same time, if I dont see the performance gains on the dyno. That said, I am going to approach it in a little bit of a more fair approach. on my dyno day I will be doing ECU resets and running the each plug time NGK, NGK premium and Pulstars. But then there will be learned 100km driving sessions where the car will have properly adjusted itself to the current setup.

Under EVO X testing, I am still working out details with Mitsubishi HQ with what I can and can not due. But its likely at this time I will not be able to do extensive EVO X testing.

Its because of the same point nunyas has mentioned. Its the plug temperature issue.

Plustar due to the fact that they are a new company has a limited product line, they just cant make plugs for every application. hense the establishment advantage to NGK and the other premium plug makers.

If plustar can pull victories out of the lower end car market, then should be able to develope plugs for different applications, made of sterner stuff. When you control the patent, you have a bit of time to get your house in order

evo_soul

modified mag has just finished up their 350z review of the plug and are going to expand their testing to other lines.

read the blurb from what I think is their april mag

http://www.sailvc.com/news/Modified-...%20Grounds.pdf

evo_soul

Preview Part 1 (Speculation and Theory)

This article might jump around a bit, the points I raise should prove useful when it comes to evaluating Pulstar Spark Plugs.

After spending all night on the phone talking a friend who was enjoying a Kirin Beer for lunch half a world away. After he finished rubbing in my face that he was having the time of his life working on the Galant Fortis (lancer) and EVO X for track events, we shifted the subject to these Pulstar Spark Plugs. In Japan, there hasnt been much official talk about it, but he has heard them mentioned. After going over how the plugs work (http://www.pulstarplug.com/howtheywork.html), we started throwing ideas around and discussing what could this mean for the Mitsubishi. Or more specificly what does this mean to the Lancer and its 4B engine family.

Enter Mivec : What is it?

MIVEC is a engine related technology developed by Mitsubishi involving variable valve timing. Before stepping into the Mitsubishi world I was really only familure with other incarnations of this idea with Toyota's VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing with intelligence) or Honda's VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control). . Now of course its not a new technology and its not something exclusive to just these three companies, each company has a different way of going about this, some better then others in different aspects or categories, so it really depends on what your goal is. For more information about Variable Valve Timing, view the general information wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VVT.

Getting back to Mivec, where things get more with the MIVEC version is its new generation that the system doesnt just involve working with the intake valves but now also applies it to the exhaust valves. "The intake and exhaust cam timing is continuously independently controlled and provide four optimized engine operating modes” For more on this generation MIVEC in detail straight from Mitsubishi click here. http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/cor...006/18e_09.pdf

Now tying this all back to the pulstar plugs and combusion what is unknown, at least to me and those around me, is what is the possible + and - with such a complex timing system. Its hard to say for sure how the engine will react. Shooting this exact question to my friend on the phone "Japanese Wonder" he speculates that should the engine not react negatively to the plugs firing pattern, [a slightly delayed, intense, but brief electrical discharge], it should work very well if the computer [ECU] can detect the gain or increase in efficency. There are 3 possible outcomes.

1. The time is off and the computer is unwilling to too stupid via programing to compensate for this type of plug.
2. The computer will not detect the combustion performance increase and act as it was before not compensating by retarding or advancing normal timings. (Increasing performance at the cost of fuel economy)
3. The computer will detect the additional performance and attempt to formulate a more fuel effiecent timing solution. (moderate but balance gain between fuel economy and power)

We both agree that the 3rd outcome is most likely. My own view on this says there is another factor here that may prove very beneficial to those who have the new Lancer. The benefit comes to the 4B11 and 4B12's that have CVT (Continously Variable Transmission) equipt.


Enter CVT : The second Brain

I spoke about the CVT in a previous thread recently, https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...73&postcount=3
The CVT is kind of like a hero's useful sidekick that sometimes can get in the way. What I mean by that is, Mitsubishi has designed this new lancer with a transmission that observes the drivers and attempts to anticipate what the driver wants based on how he drives.

Here is an example that will make the point clear. The software monitors a driver that is for the most part passive = aka grand ma. the software watches how you accelerate, monitors how often you use the breaks and profiles you. Now lets say at a stop light, she switches seats with her 16 year old grandson Billy that drives like a maniac. If the car is in D mode (automatic variable) this car is not gonna want to drive the way he wants, that transmission is going to work counter to what his habits are, at least for the short term until the software adapts itself to how the new driver drives.

Two reasons why I make this point, 1. is to show how complicated the Lancer set is and how involved the ECU(s) can be. 2. to make everyone mindful that the CVT's job is to be as fuel efficient as possible above all else. What you get is a CVT working MIVEC's strengths and applying a LOW RPM / high torque / High Performance solution to the situation.
. Its very possible that these plugs may really shine in the low RPM range all the way up. And for those who opted to buy the CVT know very well what low RPM is all about. With moderate passiving driving habits, your Lancer would probably never see an RPM speed above 2500 RPM. a TQ upgrade here would be greatly appreciated.

A look ahead

If these spark plugs perform as they are intended and MIVEC does its job, I could honestly beleive we might have a winner on our hands. BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, I shouldnt get my hopes up to high, with so many variables, this may not work, or it may work with marginal performance gains. I currently have a series of tests lined up for evaluating the fuel economy and performance of the pulstars vs. our OE NGKs. A side by side road evaluation for a set distance with two identical Lancer GTS's no advantage, no slip stream driving, just multiple laps between two set points.
The only way to figure out performance, is to throw that bad boy on the dyno.

More to come.....

ambystom01

iTrader: (7)

IMO people are taking these plugs way too seriously. I wouldn't be surprised if they increased performance slightly due to a timing effect (ie. they indirectly advance the timing) but they're not some godsend that requires a dissertation to figure out. As for the ECU compensating for them, that's entirely possible as well; I'm not sure how sensitive the ECU is in regards to perceived knock or timing advances and how it deals with these things.