Full-Race's new R14 build thread
Apr 15, 2011, 01:04 PM
#1
Full-Race's new R14 build thread
Hi everyone, it's been about 1 year since our last update on my R14 (AWD-RB26 swapped S14 240SX). We got that car pretty well developed but its at the point where it cant go too much farther and still be a "Street car". I've been so busy with the BorgWarner EFR turbocharger development that there's been no time to work on my personal projects... so ive been itching to build a dedicated ultra-lightweight track prepped race car to see what Full-Race and this R14 swap is really capable of. This thread will document that journey with photos and info. The biggest initial hurdle is to retain a full 240sx chassis, and move the engine back 7" using a lightly modified off-the-shelf R14 kit.
The next challenge to design a front suspension that will provide improved performance and be much less weight than modified skyline front suspension:
Our target is to be on the track, next Feb/March 2013. please leave comments and let us know what you think!
__________________________________________________ __________________
1) we started by organizing all the parts required for the build:
^^donor R32 GTR clip, purchased for $3800 on ebay
^^complete R32 GTR rear suspension with factory LSD and ATESSA pump, included with the clip
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails
^^R14 transmission mount
^^^the crossmembers and suspensions disassembled from the R32 GTR clip, ready for a lookover and installation into R14.2
^^^base model S14 (no sunroof) stripped down completely shell stripped
^^^placed on rotisserie
2) Before we start we needed to know how far back can the RB26 move without losing AWD? This will provide proof of concept for the vehicle and also allow us to identify the exact location for the engine/transmission
^^^first we needed to cut the RB26 Front differential/oilpan combo down to length. Fortunately Full-Race has some GIANT bandsaws here for cutting our thickwall merge collectors before CNC machining. The entire RB26 diff fit perfectly
^^^next, we did a test fit on the shortened front diff moved 6.75" forwards
^^^what it will look like in the car
3) Next we prep the chassis. I have built many cars of the years, and the worst part is always prepping the chassis. Removing sound deadening, undercoating, rust protection etc is dirty and laborious. I considered acid-dipping this chassis, but heard many horror stories of cars that continue to leak acid from the seam sealer for many months after the has already come back from paint. My good friend Andrew Wojteczko from Auto Analyzer in Canada suggested to media blast the chassis - so we took it to "The Stripping Shop" in Phoenix, AZ. these guys had the entire chassis immaculate and ready for fabrication.
^^S14 chassis stripped of all paint, undercoating and sound deadening. Ready for installation of R14 kit.
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on passenger side
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on drivers side
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, verifying alignment with stock subframe bolts
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, alignment verified
^^punch alignment marks to guide drillbit
^^start drilling new subframe bolt holes, a 1/2" unibit drillbit and a good quality 1/2" high-speed-steel drillbit is your best friend here
^^checking GT-R subframe fitment
^^clamping down R14-LHD steering rack
^^R14-LHD steering rack installed
^^trans mount test fitted
^^R14 kit installed, ready for engine mockup
4) Next we have to make clearance for the engine/transmission from the firewall and trans tunnel. We decided that we want this swap to come out factory, so the only way to do that was to surgically remove the entire firewall/floor from the GTR-Clip we had here, and graft that into the S14 chassis, except moved back 7".
^^we cut up the remains of the gtr clip, carefully removing the floor, firewall and trans tunnel. We cut much more than we actually needed initially, to make sure that what we did need would be intact
^^^next we cut up the S14 with fresh R14 conversion, to remove the firewall and transmission tunnel
^^^smallish S14 tunnel compared to giant hulking R32 floor, will make working on the car MUCH easier, especially now that we have a getrag 6 speed trans form an r34 gt-r
5) Now it is time to get the motor in it's new home, 7" back. I believe very strongly in clean swaps, so I wanted to do this as OEM factory as possible. We used the stock motor mounts and stock motor mount bracket, just relocated the point:
^^ OEM skyline motor mount and bracket VS the new 7" back position. you can see the stock GT-R mount point on the right, and the Full-Race fabricated mount point on the left.
^^engine getting dropped into place
^^fabricated passenger side bracket, had to do this to clear differential
^^GTR floor in place before getting prepped for installation
^^another view of how far back this engine now sits
6) Front suspension is a critical element for GT-R's. The stock R32 nissan suspension works, and is simple but is not lightweight, and can not give high performance at very low ride heights. The R33/R34 suspension was vastly improved over R32, however it still is not light enough nor does it follow the exact path that we are looking for. the following pictures help explain this better
^^stock R32 GT-R front susp
^^stock R32 GT-R + R34 GT-R front spindles
^^R14 front susp, basically the same as stock R32 GT-R
^^^another R14 we built, and a different view
^^^basic idea for new suspension setup. Still using stock GTR lower control arm, spindle/hub and brakes
^^GT-R spindle, with upper section removed
^^GT-R spindle next to new spherical bearing
^^GT-R spindle lug machined down to accept spherical bearing
^^GT-R spindle w/ spherical bearing inserted on lug
this is where we stand on this, lots more work to come this weekend/next week
7) Once the firewall is contructed and chassis is rolling, we will send it to Get Nuts Labs in Las Vegas, NV for rollcage and chassis stiffening. some of their work:
and some others i really like:
we will take a hybrid of these photos and make sure it is very lightweight, stiff and most importantly SAFE for our driver. Lots of pics to come of this soon.
8) DCCD Pro -- most people on this forum dont care about subaru swaps, but anyone who does a late model STi swap into an old skool subaru will require some way to control the center differential (torque split). The R14 swap is no different. I came up with a clever solution which allows us to tweak torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not as responsive to changing conditions as an active g-sensor system. As a result i started to research what STi enthusiasts do and how to get around this hurdle... that's when i stumbled upon DCCDpro.com and met Jeff Reid, the owner.
FAQ: http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3
install details: http://dccdpro.com/main/wp-content/d...DPro%20UNI.pdf
online store page: http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?m...8ab8b2d7334966
I sent a test rig to jeff which he could hook up on his laboratory bench and experiment with:
and after several months of experimentation jeff has the system functioning perfectly. He will make a few small tweaks before sending me the formal prototype but we are well on our way to having a mappable and functional active-center-differential.
thanks for reading, feel free to post up feedback/ideas. btw - my front suspension project will be done for 2wd S-chassis also
The next challenge to design a front suspension that will provide improved performance and be much less weight than modified skyline front suspension:
Our target is to be on the track, next Feb/March 2013. please leave comments and let us know what you think!
__________________________________________________ __________________
1) we started by organizing all the parts required for the build:
^^donor R32 GTR clip, purchased for $3800 on ebay
^^complete R32 GTR rear suspension with factory LSD and ATESSA pump, included with the clip
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails
^^R14 transmission mount
^^^the crossmembers and suspensions disassembled from the R32 GTR clip, ready for a lookover and installation into R14.2
^^^base model S14 (no sunroof) stripped down completely shell stripped
^^^placed on rotisserie
2) Before we start we needed to know how far back can the RB26 move without losing AWD? This will provide proof of concept for the vehicle and also allow us to identify the exact location for the engine/transmission
^^^first we needed to cut the RB26 Front differential/oilpan combo down to length. Fortunately Full-Race has some GIANT bandsaws here for cutting our thickwall merge collectors before CNC machining. The entire RB26 diff fit perfectly
^^^next, we did a test fit on the shortened front diff moved 6.75" forwards
^^^what it will look like in the car
3) Next we prep the chassis. I have built many cars of the years, and the worst part is always prepping the chassis. Removing sound deadening, undercoating, rust protection etc is dirty and laborious. I considered acid-dipping this chassis, but heard many horror stories of cars that continue to leak acid from the seam sealer for many months after the has already come back from paint. My good friend Andrew Wojteczko from Auto Analyzer in Canada suggested to media blast the chassis - so we took it to "The Stripping Shop" in Phoenix, AZ. these guys had the entire chassis immaculate and ready for fabrication.
^^S14 chassis stripped of all paint, undercoating and sound deadening. Ready for installation of R14 kit.
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on passenger side
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed on drivers side
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, verifying alignment with stock subframe bolts
^^R14 conversion kit frame rails installed, alignment verified
^^punch alignment marks to guide drillbit
^^start drilling new subframe bolt holes, a 1/2" unibit drillbit and a good quality 1/2" high-speed-steel drillbit is your best friend here
^^checking GT-R subframe fitment
^^clamping down R14-LHD steering rack
^^R14-LHD steering rack installed
^^trans mount test fitted
^^R14 kit installed, ready for engine mockup
4) Next we have to make clearance for the engine/transmission from the firewall and trans tunnel. We decided that we want this swap to come out factory, so the only way to do that was to surgically remove the entire firewall/floor from the GTR-Clip we had here, and graft that into the S14 chassis, except moved back 7".
^^we cut up the remains of the gtr clip, carefully removing the floor, firewall and trans tunnel. We cut much more than we actually needed initially, to make sure that what we did need would be intact
^^^next we cut up the S14 with fresh R14 conversion, to remove the firewall and transmission tunnel
^^^smallish S14 tunnel compared to giant hulking R32 floor, will make working on the car MUCH easier, especially now that we have a getrag 6 speed trans form an r34 gt-r
5) Now it is time to get the motor in it's new home, 7" back. I believe very strongly in clean swaps, so I wanted to do this as OEM factory as possible. We used the stock motor mounts and stock motor mount bracket, just relocated the point:
^^ OEM skyline motor mount and bracket VS the new 7" back position. you can see the stock GT-R mount point on the right, and the Full-Race fabricated mount point on the left.
^^engine getting dropped into place
^^fabricated passenger side bracket, had to do this to clear differential
^^GTR floor in place before getting prepped for installation
^^another view of how far back this engine now sits
6) Front suspension is a critical element for GT-R's. The stock R32 nissan suspension works, and is simple but is not lightweight, and can not give high performance at very low ride heights. The R33/R34 suspension was vastly improved over R32, however it still is not light enough nor does it follow the exact path that we are looking for. the following pictures help explain this better
^^stock R32 GT-R front susp
^^stock R32 GT-R + R34 GT-R front spindles
^^R14 front susp, basically the same as stock R32 GT-R
^^^another R14 we built, and a different view
^^^basic idea for new suspension setup. Still using stock GTR lower control arm, spindle/hub and brakes
^^GT-R spindle, with upper section removed
^^GT-R spindle next to new spherical bearing
^^GT-R spindle lug machined down to accept spherical bearing
^^GT-R spindle w/ spherical bearing inserted on lug
this is where we stand on this, lots more work to come this weekend/next week
7) Once the firewall is contructed and chassis is rolling, we will send it to Get Nuts Labs in Las Vegas, NV for rollcage and chassis stiffening. some of their work:
and some others i really like:
we will take a hybrid of these photos and make sure it is very lightweight, stiff and most importantly SAFE for our driver. Lots of pics to come of this soon.
8) DCCD Pro -- most people on this forum dont care about subaru swaps, but anyone who does a late model STi swap into an old skool subaru will require some way to control the center differential (torque split). The R14 swap is no different. I came up with a clever solution which allows us to tweak torque split based off of hydraulic pressure. The problem with this is that it is not as responsive to changing conditions as an active g-sensor system. As a result i started to research what STi enthusiasts do and how to get around this hurdle... that's when i stumbled upon DCCDpro.com and met Jeff Reid, the owner.
FAQ: http://dccdpro.com/main/?page_id=3
install details: http://dccdpro.com/main/wp-content/d...DPro%20UNI.pdf
online store page: http://dccdpro.com/zcart/index.php?m...8ab8b2d7334966
I sent a test rig to jeff which he could hook up on his laboratory bench and experiment with:
and after several months of experimentation jeff has the system functioning perfectly. He will make a few small tweaks before sending me the formal prototype but we are well on our way to having a mappable and functional active-center-differential.
thanks for reading, feel free to post up feedback/ideas. btw - my front suspension project will be done for 2wd S-chassis also
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Jun 27, 2011 at 01:18 PM.
Apr 19, 2011, 03:40 PM
#3
Great Project!
Trending Topics
Apr 26, 2011, 01:15 PM
#9
just started another build thread for my daily-driver evo project if youre bored: https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/ev...ject-build.htm
Apr 26, 2011, 03:17 PM
#10
This is looking great. Can I ask why you guys chose the RB motor? Was the big factor wanting to do AWD? I know its potential, but ive seen alot of 240 guys with LS swaps, granted most of them drifters and I assume they want the torque of the LS. Any other big pros im missing? Forgive my ignorance, assuming it is ignorance 
Apr 26, 2011, 04:23 PM
#12
great question white97dsm - the reason we retained the RB engine was to keep AWD. This to me is the ultimate AWD configuration (ignoring R35 with trans in the rear, and 911TT with engine in the rear) and i already have plenty of RB experience to boot. If there was another option that made more sense and/or more power i would certainly consider it. As of right now the plan is to get the car out on the track and then next year we can think about really getting crazy with hybrid engines and custom suspension arms/subframes. I really want to keep it simple for now and get some track time.
KARo7 - i agree the RWD layout suits the S-chassis perfectly, its a great balance and a ton of fun to drive. I do have a RWD SR20 240 already, but that is my beater drift car project, for time attack and road course the awd platforum suits this chassis nicely and gives many possibilities for creative people like me
KARo7 - i agree the RWD layout suits the S-chassis perfectly, its a great balance and a ton of fun to drive. I do have a RWD SR20 240 already, but that is my beater drift car project, for time attack and road course the awd platforum suits this chassis nicely and gives many possibilities for creative people like me
Last edited by Geoff Raicer; Apr 26, 2011 at 04:32 PM.
Apr 26, 2011, 04:30 PM
#13
Apr 27, 2011, 02:10 AM
#14
Oh wow 2 awesome projects on the go at once - you're a lucky/crazy man.
I can now understand why you only sleep 2 hours a day
I have to disagree with you on one thing though Geoff....... the chassis prep is never the worst job..... it's always the wiring, always!
I'm kind of a little sad to see the battleship grey colour go. I love that colour and you car inspires me to paint my car that colour.
Well that's another subscription for me. Keep up the excellent work.
Edit - I see the grey r14 in the background.... nevermind lol
I can now understand why you only sleep 2 hours a day
I have to disagree with you on one thing though Geoff....... the chassis prep is never the worst job..... it's always the wiring, always!
I'm kind of a little sad to see the battleship grey colour go. I love that colour and you car inspires me to paint my car that colour.
Well that's another subscription for me. Keep up the excellent work.
Edit - I see the grey r14 in the background.... nevermind lol
Last edited by Kins; Apr 27, 2011 at 02:16 AM.
Apr 27, 2011, 05:24 AM
#15
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After the amount of hours you've put in, have you ever thought to yourself, "Maybe I should have just built my own car from scratch?" 
Seriously though, that is a very cool project. It will be an extremely unique car, and should be fast as stink too. I love, love, love the sound of an angry RB26. Nice work.
Seriously though, that is a very cool project. It will be an extremely unique car, and should be fast as stink too. I love, love, love the sound of an angry RB26. Nice work.