J. Fast

Luck, and skill, is that not the mystique that's the draw to the hill? Absoultely!

While I absolutely agree with you about the triangulation and impact studies regarding rally spec cages, what you're elluding to is 100+ cars fully stripping out, cutting out their cages, and a complete reclassification and restructuring of the race. I don't think that's gonna happen.

You know as well as myself in simply looking at some of the time attack cars you were thinking... "hrm... that's safe for here? Okay. If that's what the rules say and they passed tech."

I do like the idea of the chair. A kirkey 99200 or something along those lines is much better than the floor. Same with foot bars to keep from getting your feet ripped off.

With guardrails, nets, and etc the peak just wouldn't be the same. There are also very few styles of chassi that will allow the bar design of said rally cages due to the height and width of the door. In some chassis with a third down bar thru the X you'd essentially be buidling a death trap because the door exit points will essentially become a 18" square opening.

Do you believe the current system and safety requirement is flawed?

RoumKoTeam

iTrader: (2)

Wow that is a bad one. These guys are very lucky especially the codriver. That b pillar is just scary to look at. For everybody discussing rally vs road cages, I had a customer once come into my shop asking about cages. He asked me what happens if your going sideways and hit a pile of logs and one comes through the window, can we build some bars closing off the windows? You guys should realize this is a race car not a tank. Every accident is different, one cage will work better then the other in different accidents. Sometimes less bars work better then a car full of bars. This cage worked, the guys are alive that's all that matters. I have built many cages and have seen many bad accidents, ones that I cant talk about. I have a few opinions about this cage but will discuss it with Kevin if he wants the opinions but not on here.

Acree

iTrader: (8)

LOL?!

-Acree

COBB Tuning

The biggest thing is that everyone seems to be alright and are going to make speedy recoveries. Most of our team in Plano knows Jeremy pretty well and are quite relieved to know he and his co-driver are doing well!

SamsonEvoX

After reading the comments about cage design, it would seem that in order to survive a monumental crash like Jeremy and Yuri had in the future, you would need a combination of a rally cage, NASCAR cage and NHRA cage. I just wonder how heavy the car would be after all of this. And, people are talking about crumple zones which would just about rule out an Evo VIII/IX.

Even with the best safety, we have seen crazy accidents like Senna's, Dale Earnhardt's and Dan Wheldon's. I recently read of Stirling Moss, that great Formula 1 driver lashing out at today's racers because he said part of racing is cheating death and they race in relative safety, free from being worried about burning to death or wadded up into a big ball.

I am 60 years old, have been to many different kinds of races, have watched many races since 1966 and have played around at the amateur level. The one thing I have seen is that no matter how safe and well built a car is, nobody can predict what will happen when a race car does not crash according to theory. There have been too many freak crashes over time that no car design could have stopped the mayhem that resulted.

Very few people have tested out the safety of a car at Pikes Peak and lived to tell about it like Jeremy and Yuri. I still feel that Kevin D. did an amazing job with his cage. Hopefully, the organizers for Pikes Peak will analyze all of this and prescribe more stringent car design as set forth by Dave K.

One more note: We are all talking about cage design for cars, but did anyone pay attention to the crazy speeds of Carlin Dunne and his Ducati 1200S? Wonder what would have happened to him had he gone off in the same spot that Jeremy did? I think we all know that a bike is the least safe vehicle on the climb, yet they are allowed to race. I just hope that this accident will not change how the race is run. Racing has always been risky and will continue to be. That is the thrill of competing and watching it.

jerdeitzel

iTrader: (9)

This is the whole thing right here. Hillclimbing is a unique and fragile sport. This is not Hillclimbing in in EU or anywhere else. We are in the US where the legal system rule. There has and will always be talk about how the hill is too dangerous now that there are no dirt sections. There will be people who think that the cars need restrictors and other things to make it safer (which was already required at Mt washington) . There will be people who want to make stronger cages required.

Once this road became fully paved they knew that it was going to start attracting guys and girls for other form of motorsport. The biggest worry was that someone with little experience on this hill would come in a huge HP car and fly off a cliff. Well, that has happened!

If there are things that need to be done to keep the race "the way it is" then i'm all for it. People think Pikes peak is some huge corporation that puts on and makes a ton of money doing these races. This is NOT true and most of the people that run these event are volunteers. It really is still very grass roots racing and if something VERY bad does happen, then the hillclimb can be in jeopordy.

SamsonEvoX

This is exactly my point. The race is run as a grassroots event, not a big sanctioned event like NASCAR, Grand Am or ALMS. Pikes Peak is unique and in a sense, it is not right to just call it a hillclimb. This is not hillclimb. It is a major test of endurance of both driver and car and the perils are at every corner.

One thing that has forever changed the event is going from dirt/gravel to entirely paved. As you said, paving the entire course [after the Sierra Club and environmentalists had their way] has brought in a new kind of racer. I actually saw pictures of formula type cars on the course, something that would never have happened previously. Rod Millen said that paving the entire course would put an end to the race and in a way, I agree. It is not the same and with the much higher speeds, I think there is less margin for error. This is not a proper road course with runoffs and barriers. I would think that with all the switchbacks and hairpin turns, drivers with rally backgrounds would probably do better than road racers.

The bottom line is that we may see more specialized cars being mandated in the future. This may preclude street class cars from competing if the organizers should decide that they want rolling tanks going up the hill. Crumple zones and cages built for roll over, front impact, side impact and whatever may necessitate a specialized design.

Robevo RS

iTrader: (16)

I think Greg we can agree they guardian angel had at least 50% responsabilty they survived or at least not seriously injured in this accident.
But in my opinion everybody build they car the way they want it, as long as it fits in teh specs.
I dont really care too much how they run it, i did try to convince them, after Dave pointed out the "missing A pillar bar", great thing it wasnt the issue in this case.
I know why i wanted rally cage, besides the rules requiers it for the evo. Even when we were talking about it to build an only a hill climb car.
Did you notice how nothing left on the car vs the other crashes? Basically got stripped down to the shell and the cage.
Also it is wierd they didnt requierd any arm restarints or window net. As i am guessing. We had to have a arm restraints at Mt Washington to compere hill climb to hill climb.

spdracerut

iTrader: (2)

I was actually watching both races during Senna's and Earnhardt's accidents. Keep in mind the death of those two racers spurned a lot of safety improvements in the cars.
Regarding Senna's crash and resulting changes:
http://www.fastcompany.com/1774254/e...ula-one-racing

Re Dale's crash:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1...call-for-sport

After Dale's crash, the HANS device became mandatory, among many other changes.

The NHRA does not run the full 1/4 mile anymore due to a death a couple years ago.

Re: Jackie Stewarts comments. I don't know if Jackie was talking to this same point, but a TV commentator made the point that the racers of old were much more respectful of each other. Now, due to the increased safety of the cars, the drivers are much more willing to bump each other causing crashes. They never did that back in the day due to much more likely possibility of death.

SamsonEvoX

Gotta challenge a couple of things here. First of all, F1 cars have gone to higher and higher noses, not for safety, but to improve the aerodynamics of the air back to the rear wing. Hence, the ridiculous noses on the cars this year. The FIA mandated a change in design so that the nose would not spear the driver.

And, the Audi R18's have high fenders on their cars only because they are running rear tires on the front. It was not done for safety. Same applied to the Peugeot 908.

What is crazy about both Senna's and Dale's accidents is that they did not have impacts that one would associate with being catastrophic. I saw both races live when the drivers died and everyone was amazed when both Senna and Dale died. The good thing that came out of Senna's accident was major improvements in crumple zones and the FIA has continued to improve safety to the point that there has not been a fatality since 1994. Had Dale Sr. been wearing a HANS device, he probably would have lived. But that is how Dale was. He lived on the edge and knew he was taking risks. And, the NHRA has shortened the course to 1000 ft. for Top Fuel and Funny Car I believe. The speeds were getting ridiculous.

As for Jackie Stewart, he probably did more for safety and is responsible for more lives being saved than any other person in racing. Drivers in F1 were dying almost weekly it seemed. Burned to death, catastrophic head trauma, legs smashed etc. His emphasis on safety first touched on tracks cutting down trees, lining with guardrail, having doctors, nurses and ambulances on site and have emergency crews at the ready. Later, he shifted his emphasis on the cars themselves.

I am all for safety. I have grieved too many times over drivers I have admired who have been killed. I am just wondering though how this will impact Pikes Peak. Are we talking about only one kind of car running in the future that has all the added safety features that have been discussed in this thread? I just can't see an Evo IX running here if they are going to mandate that the cars can fly off the track like Jeremy's car and survive the crash.

jerdeitzel

iTrader: (9)

http://jalopnik.com/5934725/how-pike...ive-ever-raced

SamsonEvoX

^ Epic article. Nailed it right on the head. His last statement is most telling: " Someday it will be a race of only professionals in carbon fiber monocoques..."

apex electric

I just returned from my trip to Pikes Peak. I was up at Devils Playground were the video was taken. Later I will post some pictures that will give you some perspective of the altitude and the mountain. My plan was to make the summit so I could congradulate the riders and drivers. I had just decided at 1pm that I could not wait any longer for fear of storms that arrive around 3pm every day. There were big electrical storms on the mountain late Friday and Saturday. While hiking up to the 14,100' summit I noticed that the cars had stopped for a long time. It was not till later that I heard what had happened. Devils Playground is about 12,500 feet up and were they left the road is around 12.000 feet. I met and talked to Jeremy earlier and was elated when I heard they had been released from the hospital without life threatening injuries. I'll post later when I recover from the trip and spending a few days in the high altitude. I drove up the mountain Sunday morning in a rental car and could not believe the course and terrifying drop offs. I consider myself a good race car driver but I do not think I could race up that mountain!! The skill and bravado required to attempt that mountain is incredible.. The event is second to none! It was one of the best times I ever had.

J. Fast

^^ohh boy do I have an epic story about why Caswell didn't race in a car owned by a guy named HRD, Don Walker. Got the Skinny from Carapetyan while pounding beers on the hill. He withdrew because the car was a death trap. It'll come out later...

macspeed702

iTrader: (7)

i feel really bad about the car so much money and time gone in the car. how bout we start donation through paypal. on a new evo build. ill be the first to send u some funds. every dollar will count