NASA ST2 Time Attack Race Car vs Modded Street Car
Dec 21, 2012, 07:50 PM
#1
NASA ST2 Time Attack Race Car vs Modded Street Car
Hey guys, I was given the idea to ask some questions here in this forum regarding my race car purchase...pending.
Do any of you have a dedicated track car (full cage, harnesses, gutted interior, exposed shifter, etc) and drive it on the street for occasional fun? Can any of you post pics of your track monsters if you also drive them on the street (weekends)?
I have always taken a car, kept it a garage queen, and modded the heck out of it and competed at the top level of DE events, auto-X, and local track days. I have my BMW and PCA race license, but never had the dedicated track car. Favoring the DE fun track day events, I am contemplating NASA time attack for additional fun. Probably no more than 5-10 track days for me in a year if that. I have young kids who love cars and the EVO 4 door is a good deal for me, but the track car kind of ruins that with full cage and no rear seats. So.......I'm stuck. Do I add rear seats and soften the suspension and buy this well sorted race car?
I know every EVO is 500whp on here, but finding one that lasts is another story. I'm sure most of us have had this question before going ***** deep into a race car. I would love to hear your thoughts from those who have made this move. Thanks.
Do any of you have a dedicated track car (full cage, harnesses, gutted interior, exposed shifter, etc) and drive it on the street for occasional fun? Can any of you post pics of your track monsters if you also drive them on the street (weekends)?
I have always taken a car, kept it a garage queen, and modded the heck out of it and competed at the top level of DE events, auto-X, and local track days. I have my BMW and PCA race license, but never had the dedicated track car. Favoring the DE fun track day events, I am contemplating NASA time attack for additional fun. Probably no more than 5-10 track days for me in a year if that. I have young kids who love cars and the EVO 4 door is a good deal for me, but the track car kind of ruins that with full cage and no rear seats. So.......I'm stuck. Do I add rear seats and soften the suspension and buy this well sorted race car?
I know every EVO is 500whp on here, but finding one that lasts is another story. I'm sure most of us have had this question before going ***** deep into a race car. I would love to hear your thoughts from those who have made this move. Thanks.
Dec 21, 2012, 08:44 PM
#3
There are a few threads on here about whether the Evo is even a desirable car given the state of NASA's time trial rules - I would definitely check those out - one example.
Dec 22, 2012, 08:58 AM
#4
Evolved Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cedarburg, WI
Posts: 963
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a race car that can still be used on the streets. Do i ever really drive it on the streets except for testing something out, NO. I ran the car with a roll bar for many years and it was much more enjoyable to drive around every once in a while with it setup like that. Once the cage went in, it became much more of a PIA to actually take the car out. Getting in and out sucks, you will have to answer alot of questions anytime you are at a stop and obviously, its not all that safe. And you should NEVER even consider taking your kids in the back seat of a car with a cage or roll bar!
FWIW, every rally car out there is street legal! (headlights/turn sig/tailights/front window defrost/windshield wiper and fluid. I didn't realize you needed window washer fluid and pump in rally till the other day) and The thing to look out for in a road race car would be to actually make sure it is street legal. If i had built a true road race car, that stuff would be gone.
There are plenty of times i regret not having a sports car that i can actually drive around. If i were to ever get another sports car, in addition to the race car. I would just put a roll bar in it and call it a day.
One more thing, NASA and the SCCA do something called Time Trials. Time attack is used by a few other groups. Also, i'd say the majority of the guys that race their cars a fair amount, don't have 500hp.
FWIW, every rally car out there is street legal! (headlights/turn sig/tailights/front window defrost/windshield wiper and fluid. I didn't realize you needed window washer fluid and pump in rally till the other day) and The thing to look out for in a road race car would be to actually make sure it is street legal. If i had built a true road race car, that stuff would be gone.
There are plenty of times i regret not having a sports car that i can actually drive around. If i were to ever get another sports car, in addition to the race car. I would just put a roll bar in it and call it a day.
One more thing, NASA and the SCCA do something called Time Trials. Time attack is used by a few other groups. Also, i'd say the majority of the guys that race their cars a fair amount, don't have 500hp.
Last edited by jerdeitzel; Dec 22, 2012 at 09:26 AM.
Dec 22, 2012, 12:36 PM
#5
A slightly modded street EVO is faster than 90% of the cars I encounter on track. For the coin a Z06 is about the only car that compares both on the street and track. At least that has been my experience.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
Dec 22, 2012, 07:12 PM
#6
A slightly modded street EVO is faster than 90% of the cars I encounter on track. For the coin a Z06 is about the only car that compares both on the street and track. At least that has been my experience.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
Both a track car and street car can have super stiff springs, pulled fenders, very large wheels with slicks, loud exhaust, and gutted interior.
I've done the whole street/track evo, and while fun, its about 30% of the fun I have been having with my full track evo. Yes i have to trailer it to the track, yes I have about 40 hours of work in it before each event. But that’s what makes it THAT much more fun.
Driving around a track with no competition gets old.
Dec 23, 2012, 07:17 AM
#7
A slightly modded street EVO is faster than 90% of the cars I encounter on track. For the coin a Z06 is about the only car that compares both on the street and track. At least that has been my experience.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
It's also funny to think about the actual difference in lap time. Most super mod full race cars area only about one or two seconds faster on the average track. Really think about that... one thousand one one thousand two .... for that you lose most of your streetabilty and lighten the wallet significantly.
Trending Topics
Dec 23, 2012, 12:10 PM
#8
That's a tough one.... As long a I don't roll I think the factory chassis is safe. I'm still nervous when late braking and I bet that wouldn't change even with fire suppression and a cage.
I think it comes down to how competitive you are. I'm an 80/20 rule kind of guy. It would make me sick to have to give my flawless evo and my wallet an abortion just to pick up that extra 20% of performance and lets even say safety.
Our crew tends to convoy together to events where we are at least 4 or 5 deep in EVOs, STIs and other imports. The in route shenanigans tend to provide as much fun as the events themselves! That and I really really like to joy ride between events. An on/off ramp here and there or "spirited" drive through some twisties can help take the edge off of a crappy day. Now if you were daily driving an M3 and had the EVO for track duty that would be different.
I think it comes down to how competitive you are. I'm an 80/20 rule kind of guy. It would make me sick to have to give my flawless evo and my wallet an abortion just to pick up that extra 20% of performance and lets even say safety.
Our crew tends to convoy together to events where we are at least 4 or 5 deep in EVOs, STIs and other imports. The in route shenanigans tend to provide as much fun as the events themselves! That and I really really like to joy ride between events. An on/off ramp here and there or "spirited" drive through some twisties can help take the edge off of a crappy day. Now if you were daily driving an M3 and had the EVO for track duty that would be different.
Dec 27, 2012, 09:32 PM
#9
Absolutely great feedback. I'm shocked at what decision I'm leaning towards. A street car. Thought the track, caged car was it!!! Crap. So many cars today have more power......makes me question the EVO at all some days. Especially if we are talking street toy mostly. I don't have the time or wallet to go Big ***** competitive even though I got contract on a great race car. Thank you guys.
Butt Dyno: I love that T-shirt. I can laugh at myself! It would go good with my other shirt: "Sex Instructor. First lesson free."
EvoM members are the best.
Butt Dyno: I love that T-shirt. I can laugh at myself! It would go good with my other shirt: "Sex Instructor. First lesson free."
EvoM members are the best.
Dec 28, 2012, 06:34 AM
#10
Funny this thread came up; I was just talking about this to my girlfriend the other day.
My Evo is a dedicated track car. It hangs out in the garage until each event; I prep it, go race, go over it again and then put it away until the next event.
There are a few cons to this;
- you need a truck and trailer (I don't mind this as much, as I like DDing a truck)
- need room to store said trailer
- spend a lot of time prepping the car (since you only drive it at events, you have to make time to go over the car and figure out any problems/kinks - when you DD the car everyday you have more time to figure this out)
I do miss DDing a car, but lately I've been driving my brothers Evo IX - as he lost his license - and I forgot how much fun it is, especially in the snow.
I will say that I feel much safer driving around my big dually than the little Evo.
My Evo is a dedicated track car. It hangs out in the garage until each event; I prep it, go race, go over it again and then put it away until the next event.
There are a few cons to this;
- you need a truck and trailer (I don't mind this as much, as I like DDing a truck)
- need room to store said trailer
- spend a lot of time prepping the car (since you only drive it at events, you have to make time to go over the car and figure out any problems/kinks - when you DD the car everyday you have more time to figure this out)
I do miss DDing a car, but lately I've been driving my brothers Evo IX - as he lost his license - and I forgot how much fun it is, especially in the snow.
I will say that I feel much safer driving around my big dually than the little Evo.
Dec 28, 2012, 01:10 PM
#11
I'm glad someone else is also thinking about track vs street. If we could, we would all have a track only evo and a street only evo.
Only having budget for one version, the street is better money spent for me.
Now, time to find that IX RS with everything but a cage.
Only having budget for one version, the street is better money spent for me.
Now, time to find that IX RS with everything but a cage.
Dec 29, 2012, 04:39 PM
#12
The EVO is just to darn easy to keep streetable and dominant at the same time. You can go from full on street car to near track mode in no time at all.
After you get the power where you want it... good coilovers and alignment... R-comps then all you need to do is start the 60 minute diet of pulling seats and junk in the trunk.
Sure you could screw up your street car by yanking out the carpet, dry icing the insulation, gutting the dash, removing the A/C and install a soon to leave you stranded mini battery but that won't really make a bit of difference unless the entire platform has been professionally dialed in.
Personally.... I think a 400WHP with Ohlins, ST47 pads, hoosiers on stock BBS rims and the above quick and dirty weight reduction items will get you 95% of the way to 100% satisfied. The other 5% will eventually place you in pendulum mode... I love my car - I hate my car - I love my car ......
After you get the power where you want it... good coilovers and alignment... R-comps then all you need to do is start the 60 minute diet of pulling seats and junk in the trunk.
Sure you could screw up your street car by yanking out the carpet, dry icing the insulation, gutting the dash, removing the A/C and install a soon to leave you stranded mini battery but that won't really make a bit of difference unless the entire platform has been professionally dialed in.
Personally.... I think a 400WHP with Ohlins, ST47 pads, hoosiers on stock BBS rims and the above quick and dirty weight reduction items will get you 95% of the way to 100% satisfied. The other 5% will eventually place you in pendulum mode... I love my car - I hate my car - I love my car ......
Dec 29, 2012, 06:04 PM
#13
Evolved Member
iTrader: (9)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Cedarburg, WI
Posts: 963
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you are pretty much spot on with that comment!
Its fun to go to an event and run times faster then pure race cars. The issues come up tho. First off, you will **** off a few people doing that. (not a huge deal). You will also get harassed about not having a full cage in your car if you keep doing that long enough. And, IMO a 400hp EVO is far too fast to actually not listen to what they are telling you about having a cage. If your in it for fun, then its easy to go out there and run 90% and have fun. Once you cross that line, you had better be prepared to save your *** some day.
Its fun to go to an event and run times faster then pure race cars. The issues come up tho. First off, you will **** off a few people doing that. (not a huge deal). You will also get harassed about not having a full cage in your car if you keep doing that long enough. And, IMO a 400hp EVO is far too fast to actually not listen to what they are telling you about having a cage. If your in it for fun, then its easy to go out there and run 90% and have fun. Once you cross that line, you had better be prepared to save your *** some day.
Dec 29, 2012, 08:18 PM
#14
Like others have said, you can do DE's and have a lot of fun, and still keep the car very streetable. Like most others I started doing a DE1 event just to see what it was like to drive on a track.
Somewhere about DE3 I decided I wanted to compete in TT. So I started pushing, monitoring laptimes, analyzing my videos. When you get to that point you will start to run into problems trying to keep the car dual purpose. For me I truly enjoyed driving my Evo on the street. But, on the track is where I can really explore what the car can do. Something you cannot do on public roads without being a hazard to yourself and everyone around you.
And honestly, once I made the decision to just let it be a track car, it was liberating. I am free to run all kinds of variations of extreme alignments that would destroy street tires learning the 'setup' as mentioned above. No more keeping a seperate set of street pads/rotors as well as another set of street wheels/tires. With whiteline bushings all around, the PSRS, Rear diff hard bushings, pretty stiff coilovers with tophats, most of the interior removed, etc the car becomes something you don't want to 'cruise' around in anyway. And my car is still nowhere near a full on ST2 prepped racecar as you mentioned.
On the safety thing, I have the Autopower Race bar, seats and 6-pts. But I was just speaking with someone earlier this evening about going ahead and fully caging the car, even though I just TT and it is not required. On good tires, with decent suspension, solid brakes and even 350'ish AWHP, an Evo is a VERY fast track car. Plenty fast enough to get away from anyone. Especially if you like to push yourself.
Somewhere about DE3 I decided I wanted to compete in TT. So I started pushing, monitoring laptimes, analyzing my videos. When you get to that point you will start to run into problems trying to keep the car dual purpose. For me I truly enjoyed driving my Evo on the street. But, on the track is where I can really explore what the car can do. Something you cannot do on public roads without being a hazard to yourself and everyone around you.
And honestly, once I made the decision to just let it be a track car, it was liberating. I am free to run all kinds of variations of extreme alignments that would destroy street tires learning the 'setup' as mentioned above. No more keeping a seperate set of street pads/rotors as well as another set of street wheels/tires. With whiteline bushings all around, the PSRS, Rear diff hard bushings, pretty stiff coilovers with tophats, most of the interior removed, etc the car becomes something you don't want to 'cruise' around in anyway. And my car is still nowhere near a full on ST2 prepped racecar as you mentioned.
On the safety thing, I have the Autopower Race bar, seats and 6-pts. But I was just speaking with someone earlier this evening about going ahead and fully caging the car, even though I just TT and it is not required. On good tires, with decent suspension, solid brakes and even 350'ish AWHP, an Evo is a VERY fast track car. Plenty fast enough to get away from anyone. Especially if you like to push yourself.
Dec 30, 2012, 11:40 AM
#15
Evolving Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a phenomen I call 'full circle' when it comes to DDs and tracking a car. Many people who stay in the sport long enough will experience it. Some take 10 years to come full circle- some do it in 2 years.
For me, I love my 500hp , dd Evo. I drive it in the winter- in stock suspension and brake form- and I drive it to and from the track in the summer.
Yeah, there are days I wish my car was gutted and lighter- to go even faster.
There are days I wish I had a cage so I could go 10/10th on my favorite dicey tracks....
But I am glad that I can decide with a moments notice to join a track day or lapping evening because my car is ready and parked at work.
Full circle-
-Discover track days
-Decide more power and stiffer suspension is good
-Want more- gut car- no compromise brakes and suspension cuz I am fed up of swapping pads
-Car is finicky, gonna buy truck and trailer to bring dedicated track car and not worry about break downs and offs
-This is the ****- have place for spare tires- place to sleep at track days wow, why didn't I think of this earlier?
-Hmm where to store the truck and trailer. Damn this thing is never where I need it.
- Just want to do a quick local tarck day- too lazy to pin trailer- start skipping track days
-Wow this is a pain planning for tack days- wish I kept my daily drivers track car
- Sell truck- trailer-dedicated tarck car
-buy all purpose dd with track capability, start having fun again!!
Full circle!
For me, I love my 500hp , dd Evo. I drive it in the winter- in stock suspension and brake form- and I drive it to and from the track in the summer.
Yeah, there are days I wish my car was gutted and lighter- to go even faster.
There are days I wish I had a cage so I could go 10/10th on my favorite dicey tracks....
But I am glad that I can decide with a moments notice to join a track day or lapping evening because my car is ready and parked at work.
Full circle-
-Discover track days
-Decide more power and stiffer suspension is good
-Want more- gut car- no compromise brakes and suspension cuz I am fed up of swapping pads
-Car is finicky, gonna buy truck and trailer to bring dedicated track car and not worry about break downs and offs
-This is the ****- have place for spare tires- place to sleep at track days wow, why didn't I think of this earlier?
-Hmm where to store the truck and trailer. Damn this thing is never where I need it.
- Just want to do a quick local tarck day- too lazy to pin trailer- start skipping track days
-Wow this is a pain planning for tack days- wish I kept my daily drivers track car
- Sell truck- trailer-dedicated tarck car
-buy all purpose dd with track capability, start having fun again!!
Full circle!