Anyone want some Aero work by Andrew Brilliant?
May 19, 2016, 09:44 AM
#16
years ago a buddy or mine told me about this super smart andrew kid that designed a body kit for a 2g dsm. he was so excited because he was getting the entire body kit for "only 8k" at the time i thought he was CRAZY for spending that kind of money on a body kit some kid designed - little did i know haha!
too bad we cant buy a complete kit he designed like that for our cars for that price!
As far as the 3-5 seconds from everything i've read and spoken to my buddy with the 2g i believe it.
too bad we cant buy a complete kit he designed like that for our cars for that price!
As far as the 3-5 seconds from everything i've read and spoken to my buddy with the 2g i believe it.
May 19, 2016, 10:18 AM
#17
years ago a buddy or mine told me about this super smart andrew kid that designed a body kit for a 2g dsm. he was so excited because he was getting the entire body kit for "only 8k" at the time i thought he was CRAZY for spending that kind of money on a body kit some kid designed - little did i know haha!
too bad we cant buy a complete kit he designed like that for our cars for that price!
As far as the 3-5 seconds from everything i've read and spoken to my buddy with the 2g i believe it.
too bad we cant buy a complete kit he designed like that for our cars for that price!
As far as the 3-5 seconds from everything i've read and spoken to my buddy with the 2g i believe it.
May 19, 2016, 10:29 AM
#18
For those who haven't yet - listen to the podcast when you have time. Pretty amazing and sheds light on how he has dramatically lowered the entry cost to world-class aerodynamics.
http://doitforaliving.net/057-andrew...your-race-car/
http://doitforaliving.net/057-part-2...rew-brilliant/
May 19, 2016, 10:37 AM
#19
Does
mean that's not good, or not believable?For a well prepped car like yours, think of what dropping 4 seconds could mean. That would probably put you in NASA track-record territory at every track you visit, right? For instance if my car picks up that much time - that would take me from a 1:27 at Autobahn to a 1:23-ish. Same at Mid-Ohio.
I'm not trying to sell anything here. I don't get a deal by signing more people up. I'm just excited about the prospects and the opportunity to work with someone at this level.
May 19, 2016, 11:01 AM
#20
Off topic: What are the goals for your car these days? Still TTU? Unlimited class Global Time Attack?
Last edited by RJones; May 19, 2016 at 11:17 AM.
May 19, 2016, 11:29 AM
#21
Granted, but wouldn't we be left with a 30-40k design? I'm curious how it's gonna get made let alone affordable? It'd be interesting to see what just a 3 second package looked like. We know he already has CT9A scans, so it's not like we should have to redo that (specifically). The A standard bumpers are OEM, Voltex, or Cwest which i'm sure he also has. In my specific case bumping doors or going into the liter is always a chance so watching one fender, $5k, and 3 months of labor go poof is not all that attractive. What is is the standard front/rear designs to see how much we can improve for the least amount of $ and EASILY replaceable. Level 2 being the side air T/A stuff. Because as some of you know bonding panels is not something you want to do twice let alone once .
.Originally I wanted to not have him come here and just do everything remotely because I was like "well he already scanned an evo, why can't he just use that to base my designs off of?" After talking with him for 2 hours and multiple emails I kind of understand why he can't do that. Here are a couple thoughts:
First, every car is different and even seemingly miniscule and inconsequential differences can cause huge changes in air flow. One example he gave was one of his customers increased his track width a bit with different offset wheels. This caused them to have to change 70% of the aero design to take that one little change into account. So subframes, control arms, engine bay differences, etc can all change "optimal" aero dramatically.
Second, and this is just my thought, nothing AB told me -- the scan data and resulting design is probably "intellectual property" and belongs to the customer who paid for it. I'd be pissed if I paid big bucks for him to scan my car and spend a month on CFD to design a custom splitter and then next month he goes and sells that splitter design to a competitor of mine for 1/3 of what I paid for all the design work. He does not design and manufacture his own parts to sell like Voltex, APR, Varis, etc. His work is basically contract work for each individual or team. Yes, he could design a complete widebody kit or a step by step Staged aero package (like Buschur had "stages" of power packages back in the day) -- but he doesn't seem to be interested in being a manufacturer at this point.
You should talk to him. He's easy to get ahold of on the phone. What if he said based on your ruleset and your desire to not have expensive wings and bumpers and canards sticking out to get broken, he could design an aero solution that would cut 30HP worth of drag off your car at 80mph and double your downforce? That would pay big dividends over a 10 or 20 or 30 lap race. . . just an idea. . .
May 19, 2016, 11:32 AM
#22
Oh don't get me wrong, I was just saying "affordable" is a relative term. I was thinking this would be somewhere on the order of $10-15k, which seems reasonable to me given the service. But for a lot of people that's not affordable.
Off topic: What are the goals for your car these days? Still TTU? Unlimited class Global Time Attack?
Off topic: What are the goals for your car these days? Still TTU? Unlimited class Global Time Attack?
Yes, it will be a TTU and GTA Unlimited class car.
May 19, 2016, 04:05 PM
#24
Evolved Member
$4-7k is a steal! If the gains were there, which I believe is totally possible. AB does some cool stuff!!!
May 20, 2016, 07:02 AM
#26
Ya thats part of the problem, I've never really been done building the car because I change things so often as the field changes. Like the oil pan I did has a different shape under the car which technically would affect things then. I have 3 different wheels that I run, I've yet to find a knock-off bumper that I like so I just invested in OEM only for Greg to go post that technical bulitin 2 weeks later. If we had a stable rule base and I had at least a year in development on that/tire I'd jump all over it.
However I have to believe that there's no way for it not to get copied unless you just keep it in the garage and never race it lol. That's 25% of the sport right there, find out the fastest guys secrets and duplicate them lol. But I personally would still share the "issues" with the Evo shape and why this or that are needed to combat the issues, why a carnard has to have a vertical edge, all that.
However I have to believe that there's no way for it not to get copied unless you just keep it in the garage and never race it lol. That's 25% of the sport right there, find out the fastest guys secrets and duplicate them lol. But I personally would still share the "issues" with the Evo shape and why this or that are needed to combat the issues, why a carnard has to have a vertical edge, all that.
May 20, 2016, 08:14 AM
#27
No data or info will be shared publicly as all work will be bound by an NDA. I've noticed that out of all his customers out there (even Evos) no one really posts in depth info on what was done to the car. Best you can find are some third party pictures for most of the stuff.
If you listen to his podcast you may understand better why looking at what works on a different car and trying to duplicate it just doesn't work out the way you expect it in many situations. Like with flat floors. . .
If you listen to his podcast you may understand better why looking at what works on a different car and trying to duplicate it just doesn't work out the way you expect it in many situations. Like with flat floors. . .
May 20, 2016, 02:27 PM
#28
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This sounds really interesting. I will definitely be listening to that podcast. I had no idea you could see such gains from aero. I agree, it's a great investment. I have no interest in this work myself (stock aero here) but I would be curious to see the result 
Aug 8, 2016, 11:56 AM
#29
Well, I had a great visit with Andrew Brilliant. We spent the first day down at Pure Tuning discussing the build with Aaron and Keith. It's a 3 hour drive down and back so I had a lot of time to learn from Andrew. We discussed aero theory, his past work, history of the west coast car scene of the 90's and early 2000's, geopolitics, Japanese culture.
Once at the shop we looked at general design idea and how to fabricate the parts, how to mount them, my rear-radiator setup, etc. I have to say, pretty much everything I thought I knew (based on looking at other race car aero and talking with folks with some aero background) was wrong. Going into this I had set in my head a certain design for everything that I thought would be close to optimal. Well we ended up changing the intercooler air routing from what I originally thought would work. We changed the rear radiator air routing, changed the underbody of the car, pretty much changed everything.
Andrew showed us his newest design idea - something he's been working on for YEARS but only recently got it perfected. We'll have to wait to see what the CFD data shows, but according to what he's seen on other cars so far it should make so much front downforce (with little drag) that it's going to be hard to find a wing big enough to match it. The underside and rear of the car are going to be completely different than I had thought. I can't wait to get the design and start building it.
The second day of his visit we spent at my buddy Jacob's shop finishing up the laser scanning and discussing more fabrication ideas. If anyone is in need of laser scanning or world-class fabrication please check him out. He's on Instagram as "jacob_rogers"
Once at the shop we looked at general design idea and how to fabricate the parts, how to mount them, my rear-radiator setup, etc. I have to say, pretty much everything I thought I knew (based on looking at other race car aero and talking with folks with some aero background) was wrong. Going into this I had set in my head a certain design for everything that I thought would be close to optimal. Well we ended up changing the intercooler air routing from what I originally thought would work. We changed the rear radiator air routing, changed the underbody of the car, pretty much changed everything.
Andrew showed us his newest design idea - something he's been working on for YEARS but only recently got it perfected. We'll have to wait to see what the CFD data shows, but according to what he's seen on other cars so far it should make so much front downforce (with little drag) that it's going to be hard to find a wing big enough to match it. The underside and rear of the car are going to be completely different than I had thought. I can't wait to get the design and start building it.
The second day of his visit we spent at my buddy Jacob's shop finishing up the laser scanning and discussing more fabrication ideas. If anyone is in need of laser scanning or world-class fabrication please check him out. He's on Instagram as "jacob_rogers"
Aug 8, 2016, 05:57 PM
#30
Evolved Member
Well, I had a great visit with Andrew Brilliant. We spent the first day down at Pure Tuning discussing the build with Aaron and Keith. It's a 3 hour drive down and back so I had a lot of time to learn from Andrew. We discussed aero theory, his past work, history of the west coast car scene of the 90's and early 2000's, geopolitics, Japanese culture.
Once at the shop we looked at general design idea and how to fabricate the parts, how to mount them, my rear-radiator setup, etc. I have to say, pretty much everything I thought I knew (based on looking at other race car aero and talking with folks with some aero background) was wrong. Going into this I had set in my head a certain design for everything that I thought would be close to optimal. Well we ended up changing the intercooler air routing from what I originally thought would work. We changed the rear radiator air routing, changed the underbody of the car, pretty much changed everything.
Andrew showed us his newest design idea - something he's been working on for YEARS but only recently got it perfected. We'll have to wait to see what the CFD data shows, but according to what he's seen on other cars so far it should make so much front downforce (with little drag) that it's going to be hard to find a wing big enough to match it. The underside and rear of the car are going to be completely different than I had thought. I can't wait to get the design and start building it.
The second day of his visit we spent at my buddy Jacob's shop finishing up the laser scanning and discussing more fabrication ideas. If anyone is in need of laser scanning or world-class fabrication please check him out. He's on Instagram as "jacob_rogers"
Once at the shop we looked at general design idea and how to fabricate the parts, how to mount them, my rear-radiator setup, etc. I have to say, pretty much everything I thought I knew (based on looking at other race car aero and talking with folks with some aero background) was wrong. Going into this I had set in my head a certain design for everything that I thought would be close to optimal. Well we ended up changing the intercooler air routing from what I originally thought would work. We changed the rear radiator air routing, changed the underbody of the car, pretty much changed everything.
Andrew showed us his newest design idea - something he's been working on for YEARS but only recently got it perfected. We'll have to wait to see what the CFD data shows, but according to what he's seen on other cars so far it should make so much front downforce (with little drag) that it's going to be hard to find a wing big enough to match it. The underside and rear of the car are going to be completely different than I had thought. I can't wait to get the design and start building it.
The second day of his visit we spent at my buddy Jacob's shop finishing up the laser scanning and discussing more fabrication ideas. If anyone is in need of laser scanning or world-class fabrication please check him out. He's on Instagram as "jacob_rogers"