Camber, Caster, KPI, Steering Angle, AND YOU!
Dec 22, 2016, 07:43 AM
#33
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
It's a stud/bolt with mis-spacers in it for the uniball. Prob plenty strong.
Dec 22, 2016, 08:18 AM
#34
Ahh, I see. The area that looks to have a grove for the snap ring does worry me a bit still but at least its down at the top of the spherical bearing. The wheel bearing mount is definitely catching my eye too. 7075 isn't any stiffer than 6061 and there's a lot of stiffness to be gained or lost in that area.
It might all be fine but of course I have my own perspectives. I wonder what their load and stiffness requirements were in the design.
It might all be fine but of course I have my own perspectives. I wonder what their load and stiffness requirements were in the design.
Dec 22, 2016, 01:06 PM
#37
Wisefab parts are pretty much exclusively used by race cars, so am sure the Evo setup is en evolution of tested proven strong setups.
The lower ball joint looks just like what Momentum and Racefab use, and what Ross, APT, Barbour, and countless many more, have used successfully racing.
But, to take proper advantage of the setup you need front and rear paired.
Its somewhat all-or-nothing, otherwise say OEM rear roll-center and more will be out of sync.
So its $5K decision, not $2000.
If you exhausted all other options to go faster than its an obvious choice.
The lower ball joint looks just like what Momentum and Racefab use, and what Ross, APT, Barbour, and countless many more, have used successfully racing.
But, to take proper advantage of the setup you need front and rear paired.
Its somewhat all-or-nothing, otherwise say OEM rear roll-center and more will be out of sync.
So its $5K decision, not $2000.
If you exhausted all other options to go faster than its an obvious choice.
Dec 22, 2016, 01:28 PM
#38
Wisefab parts are pretty much exclusively used by race cars, so am sure the Evo setup is en evolution of tested proven strong setups.
The lower ball joint looks just like what Momentum and Racefab use, and what Ross, APT, Barbour, and countless many more, have used successfully racing.
But, to take proper advantage of the setup you need front and rear paired.
Its somewhat all-or-nothing, otherwise say OEM rear roll-center and more will be out of sync.
So its $5K decision, not $2000.
If you exhausted all other options to go faster than its an obvious choice.
The lower ball joint looks just like what Momentum and Racefab use, and what Ross, APT, Barbour, and countless many more, have used successfully racing.
But, to take proper advantage of the setup you need front and rear paired.
Its somewhat all-or-nothing, otherwise say OEM rear roll-center and more will be out of sync.
So its $5K decision, not $2000.
If you exhausted all other options to go faster than its an obvious choice.
By the time you replace all the stock bushings, switch to Evo X front hubs/arms, you really are only another $2-3k short of the wisefab stuff. I'll start a new thread about it when I get some more time. I haven't unboxed the rear hubs/arms yet. so far everything is exceeding my expectations.
Dec 22, 2016, 01:37 PM
#39
But, to take proper advantage of the setup you need front and rear paired.
Its somewhat all-or-nothing, otherwise say OEM rear roll-center and more will be out of sync.
So its $5K decision, not $2000.
If you exhausted all other options to go faster than its an obvious choice.
I absolutely disagree with this. First, The front and rear roll center drop at much different rates, front at 3:1 and rear closer to 1:1. Lowering an evo increases front roll couple while leaving the rear nearly static. So first thing to fix is getting the roll couples back to stock.
Second thing to fix is the camber loss in bump the front has when lowered significantly. 2" of correction changes from camber loss to upwards of 0.5*/in of gain.
Third is the bump steer correction when adding caster. I always had issues with driving in ruts which with the roads around here was really sketchy. On stock uprights I have 2deg more caster than stock. With the new plan, I'll have 5degs more than stock. Bump steer is huge at that point.
Correcting the rear, you're basically resetting the camber gain you have to be careful not to drastically decrease roll moment that is still near stock level. Add to that, we have way more rear grip than we need because of the weight/tire ratio. Optimizing the rear for more grip just isn't necessary. I actually want more rear roll couple so I can run more rear bar which does help the front.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing, not at all. In fact, I absolutely think upgrading can be a path forward and all things work together. There's a place for a full package, but most people are upgrading one at a time to see the difference.
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MrAWD (Dec 22, 2016)
Dec 22, 2016, 01:38 PM
#40
Wisefab's full kit is $5800+Shipping.
By the time you replace all the stock bushings, switch to Evo X front hubs/arms, you really are only another $2-3k short of the wisefab stuff. I'll start a new thread about it when I get some more time. I haven't unboxed the rear hubs/arms yet. so far everything is exceeding my expectations.
By the time you replace all the stock bushings, switch to Evo X front hubs/arms, you really are only another $2-3k short of the wisefab stuff. I'll start a new thread about it when I get some more time. I haven't unboxed the rear hubs/arms yet. so far everything is exceeding my expectations.
Dec 23, 2016, 04:58 AM
#41
Well look at it this way
Evo X arms $400?
Dallas Knuckle $1750
Camber/Castor Plate $500
RCK $200
Front LCA Bush $100
PSRS $275
Rear Arms $525
So $3750 to get even sorta close? I think it makes perfect sense to go with the Wisefab depending on where you're at in your build.
Evo X arms $400?
Dallas Knuckle $1750
Camber/Castor Plate $500
RCK $200
Front LCA Bush $100
PSRS $275
Rear Arms $525
So $3750 to get even sorta close? I think it makes perfect sense to go with the Wisefab depending on where you're at in your build.
Dec 23, 2016, 07:02 AM
#42
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
What camber/caster plate is $500?
You also don't need rear arms. My cars get plenty of camber with stock rear arms. They're also not $525 if you do buy them.
I also wouldn't bother buying Evo X arms.
You also don't need rear arms. My cars get plenty of camber with stock rear arms. They're also not $525 if you do buy them.
I also wouldn't bother buying Evo X arms.
Dec 23, 2016, 08:35 AM
#44
EvoM Guru
iTrader: (1)
Yeah, you don't need the RCK with Dallas's knuckle.
Dec 23, 2016, 09:04 AM
#45
Well look at it this way
Evo X arms $400?
Dallas Knuckle $1750
Camber/Castor Plate $500
RCK $200
Front LCA Bush $100
PSRS $275
Rear Arms $525
So $3750 to get even sorta close? I think it makes perfect sense to go with the Wisefab depending on where you're at in your build.
Evo X arms $400?
Dallas Knuckle $1750
Camber/Castor Plate $500
RCK $200
Front LCA Bush $100
PSRS $275
Rear Arms $525
So $3750 to get even sorta close? I think it makes perfect sense to go with the Wisefab depending on where you're at in your build.
So, more like $2,500.