My experience with ttp engineering
Mar 29, 2009, 05:59 PM
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My experience with ttp engineering
My name is Jeremy, and my dealing with Scott @ TTP engineering
I was in Orlando on vacation/work (drive a handicap guy around ) and
I purchased a Forge b.o.v. and matching waste gate actuator, and shorty antenna from TTP. The blow off valve spring wasn't right, and the waste gate actuator was set way to high, also they installed the forge shorty antenna for the 8/9 gen, the x gen. is different. He had the waste gate set so high ( even though he said he would have it set at the lowest possible setting ) and that was Prior to me getting parts installed. It made the car through 5 different codes. I was told the only way to fix it was to get a re-tune, never once said, that he could just adjust it, until I complained via PM. He also never said why he had it set so hight, knowing that I didn't want it tuned, I just had it tuned 3 weeks prior. So I did not want a tune. I told him that before I even came in to get the said parts installed. He new that it was throwing the codes and said, just drive it easy! Even though I had over a 1000 miles to drive home with my mother, and Jim ( handicap guy back to Maryland ) The car would through over boost, and over qt. codes, as well as 3 others and that was with Jim and my mother in the car ( so I wasn't driving hard at all! I WILL NEVER BUY FROM AGAIN!
And if you think I'm just blowing it out of proportion.
Here's a complete copy of my Pm's with TTP. Nice know what his personal feeling of the EVO X MR is before you have him work on your! I know if he would have told me he thinks the evo x Mr's are " garbage " I would have never had him touch my car!!!! THEY COULDN'T EVEN INSTALL THE RIGHT ANTENNA!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsr426
Hello,
I was in there yesterday getting the bov, and wastegate accuator put on my MR, and Its not working out at all. it went into limp mode on the way home from dinner, sport mode at 3,000 or so rpm, in 3rd gear. If I would have known that I'd be throwing codes I NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE THIS TO MY CAR. I did the shut on and off as you suggested but it won't go back to normal. I've tried this about 10 times now considering its 12 a.m. and nothing. I just want the oem parts back on please, and Ill just have to have the parts reinstalled just prior to retuning. It was my understanding that when we had talked about this on the phone, (when you were checking to see if I was still coming) that it wouldn't interfear with my cars existing tune to this extent. Oviously Ill pay for the parts to get removed, just give me a call as soon as I can get in there. I have to drive a 1000 miles home, I can't have any limp mode happening on the way home. I don't want to have to worry about that while I have my mother and a mentally challened guy in the car....that's enough to deal with alone.
Jeremy Rohrs
I understand your concern. If you would like, we can reduce the loading on the WGA to slow the spoolup characteristics and it should resolve the AccessPort torque mismatch programming that your tuner has loaded. The car would have to cool in any event.
You are not allowing the ECU to power down when trying to reset the limp mode. The dash has to power down and you have to wait about 25 seconds for this to transpire.
ME:
Ok, first and formost why is the actuator set a anything buuuut the lowest possiblr rate? You new I was having the problem? Why didn't you do that yesterday when I was throwing all those codes?Luis used to work for Forge, the manufacturer of the actuator installed in your vehicle. He knows how to install the unit.
SCOTT @ TTP WRITES:
The problem lies not in the actuator, but in the Accessport boost mapping in which we have no access to modify as you left your AP at home and do not have it with you. The Evo X is a complex vehicle with an even more complex ECU.
The actuator minimum spring rate is 19psi, regardless of the preload of the turnbuckle. The stock actuator crack pressure is 11-13psi.
We had to wait hours in order for the car to cool to the point to be able to work on it to start with. Making additional changes to the actuator turnbuckle loading would have created an additional 2-3 hours wait for you which would have had to be reversed once you were getting your AP retuned. We softened the hardness of your valve to improve driveability and provided tips to prevent and deter engine codes until you could get back to your accessport.
The boost maps need to be modified in the ECU and we tried to access that information for you however your Accessport locks out the ECU.
ME:
Dude, i saw how much the Wastegate actuator was set!!!! What were you guys thinking?? you told me you would have him set it at the lowewst possible setting, Not in the middle!!!!, there was literally more than 1 inch it could have been backed out!!!! WHAT WERE YOU DOING?, TRYING TO BLOW MY CAR UP? OR SCARE ME INTO A TUNE!!!!! AND THEN DRIVING IT THAT HARD BACK AND FORTH in front of your shop, KNOWING IT WAS OVER BOOSTING and throwing codes!!! You have some nerve calling your self a tuner..... It's people like you that give Pro Tuners a bad name! And don't think for one second that this is over, people are going to hear about what you did!!!!![/quote]
SCOTT @ TTP WRITES:
I am not going to have an intelligent intellectual conversation with someone that does not know what they are talking about. I've been working on these turbo Mitsu's for coming up on my 15th year now. Our tech worked for the manufacturer of the WGA and was the on site installer for the USA operations here in Orlando for years. A WGA fully backed out would boost LESS than wastegate pressure as the wastegate would be open all of the time. The stock wastegate actuator has preload itself however the spring rate is lower.
We could care less if we tuned your car, the MR'S ARE GARBAGE AND WILL NEVER MAKE ANY REAL POWER due to the SST transmission. We tune 5-7 custom tunes weekly and that is about our capacity. We only tried to access your ecu in order to fix the accessport maps which were mismatched in their expected torque and airflow maps for how the car was set up. I would not have had time to tune it that day.
I test drove the car in order to see what adjustments might be needed in order to reduce the airflow mismatch code from appearing. Overboost code does not mean the car is overboosting, it means the airflow mismatches what the ECU is expecting to see at a given RPM. We drove the car to locate what condition would initiate the code and see what driving style would alleviate it. Evidently you could not refrain from driving it more aggressively than we advised.
Best of luck to you going forward.
I was in Orlando on vacation/work (drive a handicap guy around ) and
I purchased a Forge b.o.v. and matching waste gate actuator, and shorty antenna from TTP. The blow off valve spring wasn't right, and the waste gate actuator was set way to high, also they installed the forge shorty antenna for the 8/9 gen, the x gen. is different. He had the waste gate set so high ( even though he said he would have it set at the lowest possible setting ) and that was Prior to me getting parts installed. It made the car through 5 different codes. I was told the only way to fix it was to get a re-tune, never once said, that he could just adjust it, until I complained via PM. He also never said why he had it set so hight, knowing that I didn't want it tuned, I just had it tuned 3 weeks prior. So I did not want a tune. I told him that before I even came in to get the said parts installed. He new that it was throwing the codes and said, just drive it easy! Even though I had over a 1000 miles to drive home with my mother, and Jim ( handicap guy back to Maryland ) The car would through over boost, and over qt. codes, as well as 3 others and that was with Jim and my mother in the car ( so I wasn't driving hard at all! I WILL NEVER BUY FROM AGAIN!
And if you think I'm just blowing it out of proportion.
Here's a complete copy of my Pm's with TTP. Nice know what his personal feeling of the EVO X MR is before you have him work on your! I know if he would have told me he thinks the evo x Mr's are " garbage " I would have never had him touch my car!!!! THEY COULDN'T EVEN INSTALL THE RIGHT ANTENNA!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsr426
Hello,
I was in there yesterday getting the bov, and wastegate accuator put on my MR, and Its not working out at all. it went into limp mode on the way home from dinner, sport mode at 3,000 or so rpm, in 3rd gear. If I would have known that I'd be throwing codes I NEVER WOULD HAVE DONE THIS TO MY CAR. I did the shut on and off as you suggested but it won't go back to normal. I've tried this about 10 times now considering its 12 a.m. and nothing. I just want the oem parts back on please, and Ill just have to have the parts reinstalled just prior to retuning. It was my understanding that when we had talked about this on the phone, (when you were checking to see if I was still coming) that it wouldn't interfear with my cars existing tune to this extent. Oviously Ill pay for the parts to get removed, just give me a call as soon as I can get in there. I have to drive a 1000 miles home, I can't have any limp mode happening on the way home. I don't want to have to worry about that while I have my mother and a mentally challened guy in the car....that's enough to deal with alone.
Jeremy Rohrs
I understand your concern. If you would like, we can reduce the loading on the WGA to slow the spoolup characteristics and it should resolve the AccessPort torque mismatch programming that your tuner has loaded. The car would have to cool in any event.
You are not allowing the ECU to power down when trying to reset the limp mode. The dash has to power down and you have to wait about 25 seconds for this to transpire.
ME:
Ok, first and formost why is the actuator set a anything buuuut the lowest possiblr rate? You new I was having the problem? Why didn't you do that yesterday when I was throwing all those codes?Luis used to work for Forge, the manufacturer of the actuator installed in your vehicle. He knows how to install the unit.
SCOTT @ TTP WRITES:
The problem lies not in the actuator, but in the Accessport boost mapping in which we have no access to modify as you left your AP at home and do not have it with you. The Evo X is a complex vehicle with an even more complex ECU.
The actuator minimum spring rate is 19psi, regardless of the preload of the turnbuckle. The stock actuator crack pressure is 11-13psi.
We had to wait hours in order for the car to cool to the point to be able to work on it to start with. Making additional changes to the actuator turnbuckle loading would have created an additional 2-3 hours wait for you which would have had to be reversed once you were getting your AP retuned. We softened the hardness of your valve to improve driveability and provided tips to prevent and deter engine codes until you could get back to your accessport.
The boost maps need to be modified in the ECU and we tried to access that information for you however your Accessport locks out the ECU.
ME:
Dude, i saw how much the Wastegate actuator was set!!!! What were you guys thinking?? you told me you would have him set it at the lowewst possible setting, Not in the middle!!!!, there was literally more than 1 inch it could have been backed out!!!! WHAT WERE YOU DOING?, TRYING TO BLOW MY CAR UP? OR SCARE ME INTO A TUNE!!!!! AND THEN DRIVING IT THAT HARD BACK AND FORTH in front of your shop, KNOWING IT WAS OVER BOOSTING and throwing codes!!! You have some nerve calling your self a tuner..... It's people like you that give Pro Tuners a bad name! And don't think for one second that this is over, people are going to hear about what you did!!!!![/quote]
SCOTT @ TTP WRITES:
I am not going to have an intelligent intellectual conversation with someone that does not know what they are talking about. I've been working on these turbo Mitsu's for coming up on my 15th year now. Our tech worked for the manufacturer of the WGA and was the on site installer for the USA operations here in Orlando for years. A WGA fully backed out would boost LESS than wastegate pressure as the wastegate would be open all of the time. The stock wastegate actuator has preload itself however the spring rate is lower.
We could care less if we tuned your car, the MR'S ARE GARBAGE AND WILL NEVER MAKE ANY REAL POWER due to the SST transmission. We tune 5-7 custom tunes weekly and that is about our capacity. We only tried to access your ecu in order to fix the accessport maps which were mismatched in their expected torque and airflow maps for how the car was set up. I would not have had time to tune it that day.
I test drove the car in order to see what adjustments might be needed in order to reduce the airflow mismatch code from appearing. Overboost code does not mean the car is overboosting, it means the airflow mismatches what the ECU is expecting to see at a given RPM. We drove the car to locate what condition would initiate the code and see what driving style would alleviate it. Evidently you could not refrain from driving it more aggressively than we advised.
Best of luck to you going forward.
Last edited by jsr426; Mar 29, 2009 at 11:45 PM.
Mar 29, 2009, 06:13 PM
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Yea, it was absolutely Hilarius
when a 65 year old Handicap, Paranoid schizophrenic man, and my mother were in the car and it slammed into limp mode. Took over 30 minutes to get back to our vacation condo, normally about 10 minutes away. cause the car was struggling to do 30 mph. That would have been real cute, happening on my 1000+ mile trip back home.
Last edited by jsr426; Mar 29, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
Mar 29, 2009, 06:41 PM
#6
Now if you knew my relationship with scott you would know that I am always against anything he does and was once ****ed over by him in the past. Having said that you are completely wrong on the matter. The ecu is very sensitive and normally require a tune immediately after such parts are installed for these reasons. What psi are you hitting now? A wastegate will not cause you to over boost. Sounds like he actually did try and help with you overreacting. Lastly what are you doing beating on your car with a man with those symptoms that condition inside?
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Mar 29, 2009, 07:01 PM
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Now if you knew my relationship with scott you would know that I am always against anything he does and was once ****ed over by him in the past. Having said that you are completely wrong on the matter. The ecu is very sensitive and normally require a tune immediately after such parts are installed for these reasons. What psi are you hitting now? A wastegate will not cause you to over boost. Sounds like he actually did try and help with you overreacting. Lastly what are you doing beating on your car with a man with those symptoms that condition inside?
Right after I left another shop, he some how new where I went. Anyway he asked me " hey I know you just left so, and so's shop, he has a tendency to talk crap about me, just wanted to confirm that your still coming in tomorrow to get the parts installed/tune "
I said, I'm still coming in to get the parts installed IF there not going to adversely affect my current tune.
He assured me that he would set the waste gate to the lowest possible setting. He did not do that. Not a matter of opinion, there was over an inch of room that it could have been adjusted. They pulled the car around for me with the check engine light on! Didn't even test drive it to see if things were O.K. It was over boosting, over reeving, over temp. over torque codes.
How was I wrong? He's the " professional " and after he cleared the codes, and tried to see if he could access the ecu to be able to tune it for me, He NEVER ONCE TOLD ME HE COULD JUST ADJUST IT RIGHT THERE. HE JUST TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT EASY ON THE WAY BACK HOME????? COME ON, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
Excusse me??? I'm 32 years old, HAVENT EVER HAD A TICKET!!!!! so who are you to say I was beeting on the car. HE told me to keep it in sport mode! Which shifts the car at 5,000 rpm, It's an automatic, it shifts for you....... It happened at 40 mph, shifting into 3rd gear @ 3500 rpm!!!!!!!!, how is that beating on the car????
Last edited by jsr426; Mar 29, 2009 at 07:20 PM.
Mar 29, 2009, 07:12 PM
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THIS ISN'T WHAT I CONSIDER TO BE PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT!!!
I think it's great how he tells me, and I quote " We could care less if we tuned your car, the MR's are garbage and will never make any real power "
Well I'm glad my 40,000+ dollar EVO X is garbage! My current tune makes 295 whp,291 tq on a dyno jet. And would do 0-6- mph in 4.205 seconds, And that's on a very Conservative tune......how I like it, plus the car didn't even have 11,000 miles on it yet.
I think it's great how he tells me, and I quote " We could care less if we tuned your car, the MR's are garbage and will never make any real power "
Well I'm glad my 40,000+ dollar EVO X is garbage! My current tune makes 295 whp,291 tq on a dyno jet. And would do 0-6- mph in 4.205 seconds, And that's on a very Conservative tune......how I like it, plus the car didn't even have 11,000 miles on it yet.
Last edited by jsr426; Mar 29, 2009 at 08:00 PM.
Mar 29, 2009, 07:13 PM
#14
Right after I left another shop, he some how new where I went. Anyway he asked me " hey I know you just left so, and so's shop, he has a tendency to talk crap about me, just wanted to confirm that your still coming in tomorrow to get the parts installed/tune "
I said, I'm still coming in to get the parts installed IF there not going to adversely affect my current tune.
He assured me that he would set the waste gate to the lowest possible setting. He did not do that. Not a matter of opinion, there was over an inch of room that it could have been adjusted. They pulled the car around for me with the check engine light on! Didn't even test drive it to see if things were O.K. It was over boosting, over reeving, over temp. over torque codes.
How was I wrong? He's the " professional " and after he cleared the codes, and tried to see if he could access the ecu to be able to tune it for me, He NEVER ONCE TOLD ME HE COULD JUST ADJUST IT RIGHT THERE. HE JUST TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT EASY ON THE WAY BACK HOME????? COME ON, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I said, I'm still coming in to get the parts installed IF there not going to adversely affect my current tune.
He assured me that he would set the waste gate to the lowest possible setting. He did not do that. Not a matter of opinion, there was over an inch of room that it could have been adjusted. They pulled the car around for me with the check engine light on! Didn't even test drive it to see if things were O.K. It was over boosting, over reeving, over temp. over torque codes.
How was I wrong? He's the " professional " and after he cleared the codes, and tried to see if he could access the ecu to be able to tune it for me, He NEVER ONCE TOLD ME HE COULD JUST ADJUST IT RIGHT THERE. HE JUST TOLD ME TO DRIVE IT EASY ON THE WAY BACK HOME????? COME ON, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
