Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

I'm looking into getting a kit soon, and as i'm readin trough pages in this seation of the forum i see alot stuff i'm not 100% sure on like:

What's the difference between the kits that are, single stage, dual stage, and progress? (also could you give an example of these?)

Also when reading about FailSafes most the companys (snowperformance aquamist (dds3)) they talk about how if the senor reads ANYTHING bad it activites a fail safe.... what i dont get is how the failsafe works? (at least if i keep using the stock ecu) i get how it would send a singal to a EM and then the EM would pull back boost... but if i'm using the stock ECU with a manual Boost controller could those systems really do anything for me?

Also are their only really two injection size #7 and #15?

when looking at different systems and the pumps they use... is it true that only certain pumps be used for certain liquids?

which brings me to my last question are their any proformance gains between Denatured Alcohol and Meth? (i know that both are alchols but everyone uses meth is it bc it's just better or what?)

Thanks,
Vince

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

The WI market place is full of system makers, quality and price spread are vast. You have to keep asking querstions until you understand how everything works to the last bolt as all makers claim their kits are the best.

99.9% of the current systems can run 100% methanol, short to medium term. Most systems are based on Shurflo pump to provide pressurised water to an atomosing nozzle.

Here is a breakdown, start from the simplest:
1) Single stage: the most basic system just inject at a fixed rate, triggered by manifold pressure
2) Two stage: same as above, but with two nozzles. the second nozzle normally triggers at a higher manifold pressure.
3) Progressive system type-1 (2-dimension): Comes with an electronic controller, it varies the pump speed in relationship to the manifold pressure, Air flow or throttle position. I would classify this type of system is 2-dimensional.
4) Progressive system type-2 (3-dimension): An electronic controller sends pulses to an inline valve, similar to a fuel injection system. By varying the pulse width, it controls the liquid flow. This type is normally more expensive but has a huge dynamic range and fast response time, straight intefacing with other engine controllers with a PWM output.

Failsafe: A module detects the continuity of liquid flow (noramlly it is an add on except for some aquamist systems, comes standard). Some system senses flow indirectly via other sensors and some reads the flow directly via a flow sensor. You need to watch out for this - not all failsafes give you full protection. The simplest form of protection a failsafe should offer is by lowering your boost pressure - it can be done with a few wires and does not require any commumication to the main ECU.


More detail of a failsafe mechanism can be read from here:
https://www.evolutionm.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=177646

I may not have covered everything, but keep asking.



Failsafe is important if you are tuning your engine

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

Ok so that's kinda my question you say you just wire it up... what extactly would i wire it too? (ill ask my question directly about the DDS3) If i wire it into _____ how would the _____ controll my boost? (still asking on Stock ECU with the stock boost controller discconnected)

Thanks for your help,
Vince

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

If you ask specifically about the DDS3, it make my life a great deal easier. Let me know the following wiring diagram makes sense. This is the junction box of the of the DDS3. I can discuss this in more detail if you want to continue in this vain.

On the left bottom terminals (p11, p12), the DDS3 splices into the existing wire from the factory ECU to control boost. When a fault is detected, the DDS3's relay disconnects the BCV and reduce the boost pressure to wastegate setting.





Ignore the rest of the diagram, this is just a typical example.

Ultimate CC

iTrader: (122)

If you want to know about the snow performance stuff just let me know...

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

soo that means I have to be using my stock boost controller still huh? .. what about people who bypast the factory boost controller with let's say a manual hallman boost controller... I couldn't use the DDS3?

evoone

iTrader: (8)

and FORGE or any other MBC

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

actually I would like to know how SP's failsafe works ...and how it would work with someone using a reflashed ECU with the factory boost controller bypasted and using a MBC

thanks
Vince

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

You do exactly the same thing. DDS3 just provide a voltage free contact for that purpose. It cannot tell the difference between the OE BCV or third part boost control valve.

The DDS3 can also active its own optional valve to lift boost (p9, p10) on top of the Factory boost. For more details of DDS3, download:

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/press/DDS3-manual.pdf

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

well in the diagram it shows that would need to be wired into a boost controller.... however if it's a Manual Boost Controller there's nothing to Wire in ... is there? soo we couldnt use it if we are using a MBC ... and we would need to get your boost controller or some other EBC?

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Well. you can. with a solenoid valve. the DDS3 can by-pass the MBC in the event of water fault. You need some electromechanical link somehow to make things work - the diagram below shows how it can be achieved.

The latest version of DDS3 can omit this interfacing relay to make life easier for those who has MBC. Didn't shhowe the entire wring diagram as the other section is not important.



I am sure you will eventually find something the DDS3 cannot do...

Rcebowl

iTrader: (3)

oo i wasnt trying to doubt the ability of the unit .. i'm trying to understand how it works and make sure i would be able to use it ... before i buy a product .. but thank you for your time and help that's extactly what i needed i know

EDIT:: it looks pretty much extactly what i'm looking for

SlowCar

iTrader: (4)

simplicity at its finest, no flow, low flow, too much flow = no boost

flow within the safe operating window = boost, boost and more boost

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

I welcome questions. Please don't stop here.

There are better things to come: If you in future you have a management that has a spare analogue input. You can use the flow sensor signal (0-5V) to trim your fuel and ignition timing. No flow = no trim - failsafe by nature. I believe someone on this board has already done it.

Richard

Richard L

iTrader: (5)

Slowcar,

I keep misplacing the link to your wonderful low-current "2/3" valve. Perfect for the MBC operation.

Richard