Yet Another Direct Port Thread
Nov 19, 2009, 06:43 AM
#1
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Yet Another Direct Port Thread
Looking to go with a direct port setup, but have a couple questions first. Currently I'm running dual nozzles with an HS5 setup (ie aquamist). The nozzles screw into an adapter that I can't find a part number on. It's the same thing the blanking plug would screw into if you dediced to remove a nozzle. What's the purpose of this adapter? Why not just mount the nozzles directly into the IC piping or manifold runner? Since the original kit came with the adapter, that's why I used them. 
I've seen a lot of people start this, but haven't found a thread with anyone who finished. Has anyone in the evo community finished this project and would like to share their impressions/results?
I've seen a lot of people start this, but haven't found a thread with anyone who finished. Has anyone in the evo community finished this project and would like to share their impressions/results?
Nov 20, 2009, 04:14 PM
#2
I have finished this. It works great, my testing and results will be posted closer to the new year as I am waiting for more supporting mods. I will be offering a full install service once I become a vendor here in a month or so. I have all necessary parts to do this.
Should be used with little to no amounts of methanol. Special jets are required. Since water doesn't burn well upgraded coil packs are a must!
You need a lot of supporting mods, time and well money and this can be done with great benefits. But 2 well place jets can do just fine with a 50/50 mixture.
As for the adapter its to make switching jet sizes easy, also it convert the jet from British pipe thread to National pipe thread... cheaper than providing a tap in each kit.
LMK what your thinking of doing...
Evan Smith
Should be used with little to no amounts of methanol. Special jets are required. Since water doesn't burn well upgraded coil packs are a must!
You need a lot of supporting mods, time and well money and this can be done with great benefits. But 2 well place jets can do just fine with a 50/50 mixture.
As for the adapter its to make switching jet sizes easy, also it convert the jet from British pipe thread to National pipe thread... cheaper than providing a tap in each kit.
LMK what your thinking of doing...
Evan Smith
Last edited by esevo; Nov 20, 2009 at 04:17 PM.
Nov 21, 2009, 03:15 PM
#3
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My plans are to go from two nozzles to direct port. Checking plugs shows I'm not getting even meth flow to all cylinders. More meth is reaching the cylinders farthest from the throttle body, as the heavier droplets have a hard time making the left hand turn into the first cylinder.
Parts are on order and should be here Monday. I ordered through Howerton Engineering, dang those guys are fast!!!! Best of luck when you become a dealer. Competition can only make the market better, but I do need to give a "high five" to Howerton for their speed and ease of ordering.
I'll be running .4mm jets with combined flow slightly less than with the two nozzles currently being used. Looking forward to seeing how it responds. Supporting mods consist of 2.2l motor, GT35R, AMS VSR, headwork and all the rest of the goodies that go along with it. I know you're a big fan of water for direct port, but I'd like to try different combos as I'm a meth fan. It's going to depend on a lot of conditions, and one size probably doesn't fit all, weather, motor arrangement, tuning, etc. will all come into play when picking the right combo.
I'll take some pics once my setup is complete. I doubt I'll dyno the different combos, but just check knock status and see where I can add timing or take out fuel to get the best performance out of the car.
Good luck to you once you get the rest of the go fast goodies!!
Parts are on order and should be here Monday. I ordered through Howerton Engineering, dang those guys are fast!!!! Best of luck when you become a dealer. Competition can only make the market better, but I do need to give a "high five" to Howerton for their speed and ease of ordering.
I'll be running .4mm jets with combined flow slightly less than with the two nozzles currently being used. Looking forward to seeing how it responds. Supporting mods consist of 2.2l motor, GT35R, AMS VSR, headwork and all the rest of the goodies that go along with it. I know you're a big fan of water for direct port, but I'd like to try different combos as I'm a meth fan. It's going to depend on a lot of conditions, and one size probably doesn't fit all, weather, motor arrangement, tuning, etc. will all come into play when picking the right combo.
I'll take some pics once my setup is complete. I doubt I'll dyno the different combos, but just check knock status and see where I can add timing or take out fuel to get the best performance out of the car.
Good luck to you once you get the rest of the go fast goodies!!
Nov 21, 2009, 03:34 PM
#4
Howerton Engineering has a bar avaible that can take the one meth line and distribute it to four oulets. This would allow you to run up to four lines at equal pressure and not worry about leaks or one line can be plugged or used for a pressure gauge. It is recommended for the lines a little before the throttle body for best mixing and atomization though. I am very intrested in a direct port setup.
Last edited by mt057; Nov 28, 2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason: speeling
Nov 21, 2009, 04:05 PM
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I'm not seeing it on the website. Can you be more specific? Why would this bar be better than the 4 into 1 adapter, assuming you keep each of the 4 tubing runs the same length?
Howerton enigeering has a bar avaible that can take the one meth line and distribute it to four oulets. This would allow you to run up to four lines at equal pressure and not worry about leaks or one line can be plugged or used for a pressure gauge. It is recommended for the lines a little before the throttle body for best mixing and atomization though. I am very intrested in a direct port setup.
Nov 21, 2009, 06:08 PM
#6
4 into 1 is the correct way to do it.
As for mixtures, meth should only be used for viscosity purposes and antifreeze. If being used for power, save time and effort and switch to e85. Water in direct port will not atomize completly so there will be water droplets on the valve as it opens, so good ignition is a must to ignite the mixture. This will expel the most amount of heat allowing for the best power from a ideal afr.
.4mm is the wrong choice for DP. So you were mis led. Again it requires a special jet. .4mm is one to big, so too much cooling not enough heat to gain power. Two being a primary water injection even with distilled water, clogging still can be a serous issue especially when tuning at peak power, no mac valve will save it in time. So "special" jets are .3mm and have built in filters to prevent clogging. Not to mention needing 30 micron pre filter for extra prtection.
Sorry hope this helps!
Evan Smith
As for mixtures, meth should only be used for viscosity purposes and antifreeze. If being used for power, save time and effort and switch to e85. Water in direct port will not atomize completly so there will be water droplets on the valve as it opens, so good ignition is a must to ignite the mixture. This will expel the most amount of heat allowing for the best power from a ideal afr.
.4mm is the wrong choice for DP. So you were mis led. Again it requires a special jet. .4mm is one to big, so too much cooling not enough heat to gain power. Two being a primary water injection even with distilled water, clogging still can be a serous issue especially when tuning at peak power, no mac valve will save it in time. So "special" jets are .3mm and have built in filters to prevent clogging. Not to mention needing 30 micron pre filter for extra prtection.
Sorry hope this helps!
Evan Smith
Nov 21, 2009, 06:13 PM
#7
I spray 100% meth. I dont have many e85 stations right around the corner and drive alot. If I run out of meth I just turn down the boost.
I spoke about the adapter with Jeff, I think it is something he is considering offering and can aquire for those interested. I also spoke with him about having a y split connector that uses compression fittings but the 4 way bar would make that obsolete.
I spoke about the adapter with Jeff, I think it is something he is considering offering and can aquire for those interested. I also spoke with him about having a y split connector that uses compression fittings but the 4 way bar would make that obsolete.
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Nov 21, 2009, 08:23 PM
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I don't have access to a steady/easy supply of E85, hence the meth!
.4mm may be too big for water, but not for meth, so I was not misled. Step out of your box about water being the only way to go for dp. Not saying it isn't, but I'd rather do my own research and convince myself. It's the engineer in me. I've got the right fitlering on my system, so I think I'm ok there.
All input is appreciated, but there are no absolutes in this arena imo. Still too much to learn.
.4mm may be too big for water, but not for meth, so I was not misled. Step out of your box about water being the only way to go for dp. Not saying it isn't, but I'd rather do my own research and convince myself. It's the engineer in me. I've got the right fitlering on my system, so I think I'm ok there.
All input is appreciated, but there are no absolutes in this arena imo. Still too much to learn.
4 into 1 is the correct way to do it.
As for mixtures, meth should only be used for viscosity purposes and antifreeze. If being used for power, save time and effort and switch to e85. Water in direct port will not atomize completly so there will be water droplets on the valve as it opens, so good ignition is a must to ignite the mixture. This will expel the most amount of heat allowing for the best power from a ideal afr.
.4mm is the wrong choice for DP. So you were mis led. Again it requires a special jet. .4mm is one to big, so too much cooling not enough heat to gain power. Two being a primary water injection even with distilled water, clogging still can be a serous issue especially when tuning at peak power, no mac valve will save it in time. So "special" jets are .3mm and have built in filters to prevent clogging. Not to mention needing 30 micron pre filter for extra prtection.
Sorry hope this helps!
Evan Smith
As for mixtures, meth should only be used for viscosity purposes and antifreeze. If being used for power, save time and effort and switch to e85. Water in direct port will not atomize completly so there will be water droplets on the valve as it opens, so good ignition is a must to ignite the mixture. This will expel the most amount of heat allowing for the best power from a ideal afr.
.4mm is the wrong choice for DP. So you were mis led. Again it requires a special jet. .4mm is one to big, so too much cooling not enough heat to gain power. Two being a primary water injection even with distilled water, clogging still can be a serous issue especially when tuning at peak power, no mac valve will save it in time. So "special" jets are .3mm and have built in filters to prevent clogging. Not to mention needing 30 micron pre filter for extra prtection.
Sorry hope this helps!
Evan Smith
Nov 21, 2009, 11:12 PM
#10
I'm sorry,
but not being "In a box" or from a engineer stand point, dp has been done for years, and F1 and Wrc both prove it's positive effects from pure water. From the engineer who helped develop such kits for both types of racing I think he would know best what would obtain the optimum result same with knowing which of his product would be best suited for this kind of application.
Long term results will show their signs. I have tried to offer proffesional, and well proven and tested results. The engineer in you should subscribe to SAE papers for more details... Good luck to you. It will work but not as well as 2 well placed 50/50 jets.
Respectfully
Evan Smith
but not being "In a box" or from a engineer stand point, dp has been done for years, and F1 and Wrc both prove it's positive effects from pure water. From the engineer who helped develop such kits for both types of racing I think he would know best what would obtain the optimum result same with knowing which of his product would be best suited for this kind of application.
Long term results will show their signs. I have tried to offer proffesional, and well proven and tested results. The engineer in you should subscribe to SAE papers for more details... Good luck to you. It will work but not as well as 2 well placed 50/50 jets.
Respectfully
Evan Smith
Nov 22, 2009, 07:17 AM
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esevo, as previously stated, the input is appreciated, so thanks.
Not doubting F1 and WRC work better on water, but they're not running 93 octane pump gas either, which is one of the self imposed limitations for me. If I was starting wth 98 octane fuel, water would probably by my choice. It's going to be hard to find an SAE paper or anything else that applies specifically to what I'm trying to accomplish with my car, and the constraints I put on my setup. This car is a daily driver, so I need an easy supply of base fuel I can stop and fill up with on the way to work any given day, I don't need 40+ psi of boost, but something north of around 30 psi would be nice, I don't want to be on the razor's edge that if something is slightly amiss, the motor grenades, I won't be breaking the motor down every year, etc., etc. Probably describes the bulk of readers here on evom.
So I read what is easily available, try to learn from others experiences, see how it applies to me, shape an opinion (not always the right one) and go from there. Your view helps, and it will be a simple matter of ordering smaller jets if/when I decide to go the route of pure water or a mix that needs a smaller jet.
Not doubting F1 and WRC work better on water, but they're not running 93 octane pump gas either, which is one of the self imposed limitations for me. If I was starting wth 98 octane fuel, water would probably by my choice. It's going to be hard to find an SAE paper or anything else that applies specifically to what I'm trying to accomplish with my car, and the constraints I put on my setup. This car is a daily driver, so I need an easy supply of base fuel I can stop and fill up with on the way to work any given day, I don't need 40+ psi of boost, but something north of around 30 psi would be nice, I don't want to be on the razor's edge that if something is slightly amiss, the motor grenades, I won't be breaking the motor down every year, etc., etc. Probably describes the bulk of readers here on evom.
So I read what is easily available, try to learn from others experiences, see how it applies to me, shape an opinion (not always the right one) and go from there. Your view helps, and it will be a simple matter of ordering smaller jets if/when I decide to go the route of pure water or a mix that needs a smaller jet.
Nov 23, 2009, 03:02 PM
#13
.4mm(120cc/min) nozzles would be for 25+psi, it should work fine with 100% meth. Just gotta get the tune right. Keep in mind if with that kinda setup, you're going to have to take out a decent amount of fuel to get your a/f's right, so you'll be on the edge if you kit fails.
A good failsafe will be a must(you have the dds3), maybe a map switching feature.
A good failsafe will be a must(you have the dds3), maybe a map switching feature.
Nov 23, 2009, 04:13 PM
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how could you tell that you're not getting even dispersion of water/meth by looking at the plugs? if you're really not getting good distribution then i'd say you need to find a nozzle that atomizes better or maybe move the nozzle father away from the intake manifold.
Nov 23, 2009, 06:11 PM
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The combined flow will be about 50 cc/min lower than the two nozzles I'm currently running, the tune will need to be changed but not by a drastic amount. Totally agree, a good failsafe is a must.
I'm using the DDS3 to trigger a map switch via my AEM. When the aquamist triggers and I'm within the proper flow window, it kicks me into a secondary map with a lot less fuel, so I'm happy with the way it'setup in that regard. I'm also using a MAC valve on the boost controller that functions off the same signal. Wrong flow of meth, no extra boost.... It works! As I had a high speed valve start to fail on me gradually and the failsafe kept me out of trouble, in the low boost mode on the fuel only map. Sweet!
I'm using the DDS3 to trigger a map switch via my AEM. When the aquamist triggers and I'm within the proper flow window, it kicks me into a secondary map with a lot less fuel, so I'm happy with the way it'setup in that regard. I'm also using a MAC valve on the boost controller that functions off the same signal. Wrong flow of meth, no extra boost.... It works! As I had a high speed valve start to fail on me gradually and the failsafe kept me out of trouble, in the low boost mode on the fuel only map. Sweet!
.4mm(120cc/min) nozzles would be for 25+psi, it should work fine with 100% meth. Just gotta get the tune right. Keep in mind if with that kinda setup, you're going to have to take out a decent amount of fuel to get your a/f's right, so you'll be on the edge if you kit fails.
A good failsafe will be a must(you have the dds3), maybe a map switching feature.
A good failsafe will be a must(you have the dds3), maybe a map switching feature.
Last edited by dubbleugly01; Nov 23, 2009 at 06:14 PM.