Originally Posted by duderr_666

i was just wondering are racing harnesses illegal? i live in canada and am wondering if it is illegal here

Originally Posted by JohnathanKong

I just installed racing seats with 4 point seat harnesses, and now people are telling me that it is illegal. Is this true?

Originally Posted by LanEvo

Yes. 4-point harnesses are totally illegal both on the street AND on the track. Nothing less than 5-point is allowed on the track (and only with adequate roll protection and proper mounting).

Originally Posted by JohnathanKong

One of my friends is telling me that I could get pulled over for using a 4 point seat harness. He said it's because cops are only trained to cut people out of 3 points in emergencies.

Originally Posted by LanEvo

The reason why they are illegal is because they are deadly. It's that simple.

Without the 5th belt (a.k.a., anti-sub strap) you will submarine under the seat in any sort of high-speed impact. Believe it or not, your stock 3-point belts are designed to protect you from submarining. This is why "tuner belts" are outlawed by the US DOT, the German TUV, Transport Canada, and every race sanctioning body in the world (including the SCCA and ASN/FIA). Schroth did manage to put together a 2" 4-point tuner belt system that got DOT approval. It relies on a break-away strap. Personally, I wouldn't go near it.

Emre

Originally Posted by Kayaalp

There's more to it than that. Generally speaking, 4-point harnesses can be more dangerous than your stock inertia reel 3-pointer in high-speed frontal impacts as there is no anti-sub strap. We're talking major intra-abdominal blunt trauma (ruptured spleen, liver lacerations, ruptured intraabdominal aorta, etc.) ... this is serious stuff. I'd rather have a bad craniofacial injury than that...you generally don't die from craniofacial injuries. I've spent enough time in trauma centers to stay away from 4-point systems in a road car.

Plus, if you have a harness bar in the car without proper roll protection, you've pretty much signed your own death certificate if you ever actually roll the car. With a stock 3-point belt, you have a chance of surviving: you can get pushed to the midline of the car by the roof as it comes down and be ok. Also, the seatbacks on ALL cars are designed to collapse. If the roof comes down, your seatback can collapse and flatten out. (I know at least 2 people who survived roll-overs this way). This can't happen if there's a steel bar behind you! You'll be broken in half as the roof folds you over it. Not pretty.

Also, if you go backwards into a wall at high speeds the seatback can sometimes collapse...or the seat mounting bolts can snap. This is how the ex-president of the COMSCC died. He spun his Corvette, went backwards into the wall and the mounting bolts on his seat broke. He flew backwards into his harness bar and it broke his neck.

Bottom line: if you are using a stock seat and have no roll protection...use the stock inertia reel belt. If you feel you need more protection, then use a proper 5-point belt with adequate roll protection (4-point bar at minimum). You can use your stock seat if you cut a slot for the anti-sub strap and use a seat-back brace like those sold through i/o motorsport to protect you if the seatback collapses.

Be safe.

Emre