doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

Where can i get my hands on the service manual - anywhere free online?

might the EVO 8 then be a cheaper bet, or do we run into further problems with other aspects of that head being different (and possibly requiring custom work)? i seem to remember something about oil runners, or tapping something on the EVO 8 that you wouldn't need to do if you're mating the EVO 9 head with the 4G69 sb

it seems if it's the EVO 9 we go with, it's a strong possibility the EVO 9 harness is required.

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

Evo 8 head would cause you do lose Mivec. Ive heard of people adding mivec to 4g64 blocks with an Evo9 head. But I dont think Ive ever seen mivec added to an Evo8 head, I dont even know if that is possible honestly.

And I believe the oil things your talking about are oil squirters. The Evos has them in the 4g63 block to keep the pistons cooler. The 4g69 does not have them. But I have been told they can be added by purchasing the squirter, having the block tapped in a few places, and installing them. IIRC Mitsuorder did NOT add oil squirters when he built his block and he is pushing 700-ish HP. However I think I would enjoy the peace of mind knowing Im cooling the pistons as much as possible. Preference I guess.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

thanks man for the help. i'd feel better with the oil squirters too. i'll try to identify what is required to have this work.

i'm now reaching a bit of a grey area as far as the exhaust manifold and turbine setup is concerned. unfortunately the hope for a 'bolt-on' evo 9 manifold is not looking too good. I've been in touch with ETS and they are not sure that the 8" or so room i have (going off of the distance from stock cylinder head to the radiator, it could actually be LESS once you throw on the EVO 9 head) is going to be enough. Is there a way we can get the dimensions of the engine bay/chassis of the EVO to compare against my chassis (03 OZ rally), then look at the differences in size of the two cylinder heads (4g63T EVO IX vs. 4G69 ralliart) and see the actual room im going to have?

would this be available via the shop manual? where might i find this info?

GPTourer

With 2.4L builds falling out of favor, I'm beginning to wonder if this is a good idea for a big power build? My next project will involve an '05-'06 Outlander and I was considering this swap too. I know the 4G69 is not quite a 4g63 or a 4g64 block, but perhaps closer to a 4g63 with same deck height but larger bore. Just wondering if the coolant passages and such line up to where HG sealing won't be a problem.

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

Im pretty sure the Evos have a different radiator support so they have a slight bit more space forward the engine. I can try to double check for you though. I doubt the service manuals would be any help in that department. I have a friend with a VIII and I just met another guy from a local forum with one too. So I'll try to get a measurment for you sometime, if someone else doesnt supply the info before then.

Part number for the oil squirters is MN143460 I believe. And here are some pics of them:

Squirter


This is a 4g64 with an oil line tapped for the squirters. See the 4 holes.


And here is a 4g63 with them installed (rotated from the previous image)

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

4g69 passages do lineup to the 4g63 head. They are just much larger on the 4g69 but still in the same place. Mitsuorder used an Evo9 head gasket on his build.

4g63 has 1997cc, 85mm bore, 88mm stroke
4g64 has 2351cc, 86.5mm bore, 100mm stroke
4g69 has 2378cc, 87mm bore, 100mm stroke

I'll attached images so you could compare all three.
------ 4G63 -------------- 4G64 --------------- 4G69

GPTourer

Thanks, I'll look him up.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

awesome man you are providing us with some very useful information - highly appreciated!

i'll wait on that radiator to cylinder head measurement because from what i've read and discussed with a few fabricators, the spacing issue is going to probably be the #1 obstacle for me. not sure how that might pan out for someone with a Ralliart - not sure if the ralliart front has more space or not, but the OZ rally is pretty tight :/

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

LOL Ive studied a lot on everything I could imagine would be involved in the DOHC swap. Ive had intentions to pull this off for a long while now. Ive just been trying to get a few other projects under my belt, and for my financial situation to be a bit better before embarking on it.

Ralliart and OZ should have the same engine bay space. I was planning to switch to a half size radiator, and civic AC condenser so that I could have a forward mounted turbo and a lot more space to work with. I'll try to get those measurements for you if I can though.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

ya the half size rad is an option i've considered, but being that i've already bought the megan racing rad i have (from RRM), and as it turns out it's actually a great radiator... it'd be nice to be able to keep it... but i think a turbo is more fun haha

appreciate it man, thanks again

EDIT: how would the civic A/C condenser work - do you have any specific details as far as that's concerned?

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

i wonder if i go with the half radiator thereby freeing up a lot of space for the manifold/turbo setup, if even then i'm going to have enough room for a bolt-on manifold from somewhere like AMS or ETS... ETS wasn't very optimistic when i said the entire system had to be contained within an 8.0" distance.

i'm still anxious to hear the differences between the engine bay sizes/room available between the EVO's and our cars... i wonder how much less room we have to work with

Green_Bandit

iTrader: (25)

If you're worried about cool pistons from oil temp why don't you add an oil cooler. The Evo 9 is a straight bolt up. I'm actually using a 9 cooler as an atf cooler. Bolted up the same way.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

if i have the room for it, by all means. do you think this in conjunction to oil squirters is over-kill or not a bad idea

bakuro117

iTrader: (5)

Well an oil cooler would decrease overall oil temps. Oil squirters help to directly reduce piston temps though. Because during combustion the piston absorbs 80% of the excess heat, and that heat gets transferred through piston rings. Adding oil squirters cools the piston and rings, extending their life, and durability.

Adding an oil cooler would further increase this effect. and It would definitely not be over-kill because a stock Evo has an oil cooler AND oil squirters. So you can gather that the combination was definitely implemented to add life and protection to the engine.

However many people successfully run without one, or without the other, and many times without either. So it really just comes down to preference.

doncarbone

iTrader: (15)

thanks for the clarification. for as cheap as the squirters are, and being that an oil cooling kit would probably be relatively small and easy to install...it might be worth the time as i'll have the motor split and out of the vehicle anyway.

were you able to get those measurements of the EVO 9 cylinder head to radiator (for exhaust manifold and turbo setup space)? in my chassis, to my radiator...i have only 8" or so for the entire manifold/turbo setup.