ABS in winter?
Dec 4, 2005, 07:03 PM
#16
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yeah thats what ive found as well, if i push them just before abs kicks in, it will stop alot quicker then with abs. at this point im debating pulling the abs fuse. not sure what i really think of it.....
Dec 5, 2005, 07:28 AM
#18
Personally I don't like ABS.....something about putting the car in complete control of braking bothers me. The only time it has activated for me is hard braking on a track (and I could NOT turn when it activated, it almost pushed me off the track)......and I forced it on last winter in a parking lot to see how it worked. It worked ok I guess.....but I can do without it. I have been through enough winters to not drive like a dumb **** in the snow and ice. MT and FWD is enough for me.........
I think I just realized I am a control freak!
I think I just realized I am a control freak!
Dec 5, 2005, 02:07 PM
#20
My driving experience "at the track" is very limited. I do however speak from a lot of experience driving in the snow. ABS is a great thing to have when trying to stop with no traction.
Here's something to consider - the moment your ABS is engaging is simply the moment your brakes/tires would have otherwise locked up and lost all traction. Its a simple fact locking up your brakes, albeit on ice or otherwise is not the most efficient way to to stop your vehicle quickly. Now it could be that some drivers are more comfortable with the feel of their cars without ABS, but I challenge those same drivers to find me documented evidence of a car actually stopping more quickly without it. Comfort can make up for a whole lot when it comes to driving your best, dont get me wrong - but the question was "ABS in winter?" and the answer in my mind would most certainly be YES. Anything that allows you to stop faster on ice is a good thing....on ice.
If you are getting "pushed off the track" by your ABS, this says to me that you were going way too fast going into the turn to begin with. Braking going in/ accelerating on the way out has been the most commonly executed methods I've noted for best cornering. I dunno about you guys but I rarely see anyone slamming on their brakes mid turn.
Just seems to me that if you're getting to the point where its engaging for you, its doing you a favor, not messing up your experience. Disabling that safety feature seems a bad idea as its being done by the people who need it the most - ie the people locking up otherwise.
Here's something to consider - the moment your ABS is engaging is simply the moment your brakes/tires would have otherwise locked up and lost all traction. Its a simple fact locking up your brakes, albeit on ice or otherwise is not the most efficient way to to stop your vehicle quickly. Now it could be that some drivers are more comfortable with the feel of their cars without ABS, but I challenge those same drivers to find me documented evidence of a car actually stopping more quickly without it. Comfort can make up for a whole lot when it comes to driving your best, dont get me wrong - but the question was "ABS in winter?" and the answer in my mind would most certainly be YES. Anything that allows you to stop faster on ice is a good thing....on ice.
If you are getting "pushed off the track" by your ABS, this says to me that you were going way too fast going into the turn to begin with. Braking going in/ accelerating on the way out has been the most commonly executed methods I've noted for best cornering. I dunno about you guys but I rarely see anyone slamming on their brakes mid turn.
Just seems to me that if you're getting to the point where its engaging for you, its doing you a favor, not messing up your experience. Disabling that safety feature seems a bad idea as its being done by the people who need it the most - ie the people locking up otherwise.
Last edited by boozeup&riot; Dec 5, 2005 at 02:21 PM.
Dec 6, 2005, 08:14 AM
#22
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Doesn't the EBD system determine how to apply the braking pressure from the abs sensors?
Originally Posted by DangerousDan
Does pulling the abs fuse disable the EBD? haven't gotten an answer yet, thought I would repost
Dec 6, 2005, 08:39 AM
#23
Originally Posted by boozeup&riot
I challenge those same drivers to find me documented evidence of a car actually stopping more quickly without it.
Dec 6, 2005, 01:07 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Myszkewicz
Any situation where locking up the tire would build up snow, gravel, whatever in front of the tire.
Dec 6, 2005, 02:19 PM
#25
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I agree with boozeup&riot that the coefficient of friction betwen the tire and the roadway is highest when a wheel is threshold braking, or at the point immediately prior to lockup. Would the plowing of loose material in front of the locked tire possibly aid in slowing the vehicle sooner? Maybe, but not much unless you ran off into a gravel or sand trap, and it certainly doesn't outweigh the benefit of being able to steer while braking, which ABS affords. You may very well lose most of this benefit on ice, however, since your momentum is travelling in a certain direction. That being said, I'll still take ABS in foul weather any day of the week.
Dec 6, 2005, 04:26 PM
#26
Originally Posted by boozeup&riot
I'm happy to retract my comments about the whole thing if someone can provide any evidence (printed documentation, like a link or something) at all to substantiate the claim that ABS is inferior to non abs in low traction situations.
Here's a LINK, since you guys want to be spoon-fed, or you can just read the quote below.
Originally Posted by NHTSA
Do cars with ABS stop more quickly than cars without?
ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.
ABS is designed to help the driver maintain control of the vehicle during emergency braking situations, not make the car stop more quickly. ABS may shorten stopping distances on wet or slippery roads and many systems will shorten stopping distances on dry roads. On very soft surfaces, such as loose gravel or unpacked snow, an ABS system may actually lengthen stopping distances. In wet or slippery conditions, you should still make sure you drive carefully, always keep a safe distance behind the vehicle in front of you, and maintain a speed consistent with the road conditions.
Dec 6, 2005, 05:48 PM
#27
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Taken from report number DOT HS 808 875 NHTSA Light Vehicle Antilock Brake System Research Program Task 4: A Test Track Study of Light Vehicle ABS Performance Over a Broad Range of Surfaces and Maneuvers
"This study found that for most stopping manuevers on most surfaces, ABS-assisted full pedal brake application stops were shorter than those made with the ABS disabled. The one systematic exception was on loose gravel where stopping distances were increased by an average of 27.2 percent overall. Additionally, the vehicular stability during testing was almost always superior with the assistance of ABS."
One of the tests also included wet grass, where ABS stops were shorter for 7 of 9 vehicles used.
There are stats out there to reinforce anyones position on a particular subject.
If you are not a fan of ABS, good for you. I am a fan of ABS, good for me. I really think that the real concern is the tires making contact with the roadway. All the ABS, ESC, LSD, TSC, etc. can be phenomenal or garbage depending on what's providing that contact patch with the dry, wet, snowy, icy, or slushy road.
"This study found that for most stopping manuevers on most surfaces, ABS-assisted full pedal brake application stops were shorter than those made with the ABS disabled. The one systematic exception was on loose gravel where stopping distances were increased by an average of 27.2 percent overall. Additionally, the vehicular stability during testing was almost always superior with the assistance of ABS."
One of the tests also included wet grass, where ABS stops were shorter for 7 of 9 vehicles used.
There are stats out there to reinforce anyones position on a particular subject.
If you are not a fan of ABS, good for you. I am a fan of ABS, good for me. I really think that the real concern is the tires making contact with the roadway. All the ABS, ESC, LSD, TSC, etc. can be phenomenal or garbage depending on what's providing that contact patch with the dry, wet, snowy, icy, or slushy road.
Dec 6, 2005, 05:56 PM
#28
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I had a rs W/O ABS and a MR now with it... I am for the ABS it is much safer 90% of the time you have no idea what the driver infront of you will do, 100% of the time you never know if a deer or UFO (not ET type) will fall in your path. ABS helps if you use it right!
Dec 6, 2005, 06:16 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Joe Spingler
There are stats out there to reinforce anyones position on a particular subject.
I will agree that ABS is fine in most situations. All I'm saying is that there are other situations where a car would stop quicker - NOT necessarily with more control - without ABS.