Track Shoes
Jun 8, 2014, 10:23 AM
#1
Track Shoes
Okay, its true, if you're doing track stuff at least once every couple of weeks, you get to a point where a separate wheel and tire combo is needed. I spent a long time searching and asking around for 16x7 rims that weren't $1k or salt corroded. Anyway, I noticed in Kijiji a shop in Toronto selling these Konig Lightning for $80 each. Hey, not super light (a bit over 16 lb) but a great deal (for expensive Canada) and safer than used! Got the Federal 595 RSR's ($650 all in shipped to my door) mounted and ready to go now. I'll probably do the wheels swap in my driveway before I leave for the track, and see how that is instead of hauling to Shannonville and changing there. I'll report soon how it all works out.
Last edited by RalliartN; Jun 8, 2014 at 10:28 AM.
Aug 27, 2014, 06:40 AM
#7
Update
The track-day season is just about over for me, one Saturday left in September. Attended a lot of events this year.
Performance
A bit slidey when cold but they heat up within two laps. Very predictable and controllable - I can drift the rear end to make two adjacent corners seem like one long corner. Super grip when hardest braking, never invoked ABS lockup. Wow - just big meaty grippy trustworthy things to drive on.
Life and Maintenance
Basically, I took off the daily driver wheel set and installed this wheel/tire combo in my driveway before each track event. I drove to the track on them, about 1 hour one way. Nice highway ride, actually.
At each install I would rotate the wheels left-front-to-left-rear and right-front-to-right-rear. Being a front wheel drive, the rears hardly wore at all so this evened things up.
The outside of the left front tire always wears first and fastest. After several events I had a shop dismount the tires from the wheels and swap the tires left-to-right and right-to-left, so the outside of a left tire became the inside of a right tire. I just did this one time.
So near the end of the season, one tire has corded (see pic). Another is very close to it. Two others are in pretty good shape, worn fairly evenly, and will be okay for another couple track days if mounted on the rear.
That slit across the tire is normal for a used RS-R, doesn't always occur but can, and is not a flaw or a danger sign. Keep driving on it.
Summary
Can't beat'em for the money. I've just ordered more online for next year - it's the only way I can get them and the lead time is 60-90 days(!) because they are direct from the manufacturer. Oh well, at least they'll be fresh. I ordered six for $1,015 CDN total, shipping and taxes all in from a Canadian supplier. I think this price is good for Canada where we get ripped a new one for all car stuff especially tires. (I saw online in California they go for $75 each... oh God). Six tires will allow me to creatively rotate and flip to make it through more than a full season.
Performance
A bit slidey when cold but they heat up within two laps. Very predictable and controllable - I can drift the rear end to make two adjacent corners seem like one long corner. Super grip when hardest braking, never invoked ABS lockup. Wow - just big meaty grippy trustworthy things to drive on.
Life and Maintenance
Basically, I took off the daily driver wheel set and installed this wheel/tire combo in my driveway before each track event. I drove to the track on them, about 1 hour one way. Nice highway ride, actually.
At each install I would rotate the wheels left-front-to-left-rear and right-front-to-right-rear. Being a front wheel drive, the rears hardly wore at all so this evened things up.
The outside of the left front tire always wears first and fastest. After several events I had a shop dismount the tires from the wheels and swap the tires left-to-right and right-to-left, so the outside of a left tire became the inside of a right tire. I just did this one time.
So near the end of the season, one tire has corded (see pic). Another is very close to it. Two others are in pretty good shape, worn fairly evenly, and will be okay for another couple track days if mounted on the rear.
That slit across the tire is normal for a used RS-R, doesn't always occur but can, and is not a flaw or a danger sign. Keep driving on it.
Summary
Can't beat'em for the money. I've just ordered more online for next year - it's the only way I can get them and the lead time is 60-90 days(!) because they are direct from the manufacturer. Oh well, at least they'll be fresh. I ordered six for $1,015 CDN total, shipping and taxes all in from a Canadian supplier. I think this price is good for Canada where we get ripped a new one for all car stuff especially tires. (I saw online in California they go for $75 each... oh God). Six tires will allow me to creatively rotate and flip to make it through more than a full season.
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Aug 27, 2014, 09:03 AM
#8
@RalliartN, when you say you did many events how many approximately ?
I wonder if there may be another tyre that would last a little longer even if they are still replaced annually. At the same time, if you are getting 6 of them now you must REALLY like the performance of these tyres.
I wonder if there may be another tyre that would last a little longer even if they are still replaced annually. At the same time, if you are getting 6 of them now you must REALLY like the performance of these tyres.
Aug 27, 2014, 05:17 PM
#10
2006_RA, I did 3 full lapping days, 3 half days, and many evenings some of which were long track some short track and some drag strip. I usually had friends with me (you met some of them) and one in particular I let drive the car when I was resting between sessions, so the car didn't stop very much. I tend to drive over the friction limit when I can so the car slides a bit, and this is hard on tires.
Yes, I really like these tires. Grippy yet so safe to slide at speed. Then again, the RA is an amazingly balanced and easy to control car.
You hit the nail on the head about maybe there is a better wearing tire - it is a conundrum. I've tried Toyo T1-R and BFG Comp 2, which are summer tires wear rated at what, 340 UTOG. They have similar wear patterns and a bit less life in them when tracking as compared to the Federals. They would all last longer if I could stop the crazy outer left tire wear. If I can swing it I will get coilovers next year and try more front camber than the -1.5 I have now; maybe that is the ticket to even tire wear. Anyway, you have always given sound advice, what do you think?
Hmm, another approach to consider: Federal has the 595 EVO which is 240 wear rated and cheaper ($114 CDN from Canadian supplier) than the RS-R's. Could try those to see if they would be okay on the track and thus lower operating costs. Our American friends might think we're nuts fussing about these costs but in Canada everything fun is expensive to do.
Lanzer, I would totally use these as daily driver if I lived in the USA since the prices are so awesome there. These aren't just the Dunlop Star Spec's retarded cousin standing in the corner over there. The only thing I can't comment on is tire life on the street.
Yes, I really like these tires. Grippy yet so safe to slide at speed. Then again, the RA is an amazingly balanced and easy to control car.
You hit the nail on the head about maybe there is a better wearing tire - it is a conundrum. I've tried Toyo T1-R and BFG Comp 2, which are summer tires wear rated at what, 340 UTOG. They have similar wear patterns and a bit less life in them when tracking as compared to the Federals. They would all last longer if I could stop the crazy outer left tire wear. If I can swing it I will get coilovers next year and try more front camber than the -1.5 I have now; maybe that is the ticket to even tire wear. Anyway, you have always given sound advice, what do you think?
Hmm, another approach to consider: Federal has the 595 EVO which is 240 wear rated and cheaper ($114 CDN from Canadian supplier) than the RS-R's. Could try those to see if they would be okay on the track and thus lower operating costs. Our American friends might think we're nuts fussing about these costs but in Canada everything fun is expensive to do.
Lanzer, I would totally use these as daily driver if I lived in the USA since the prices are so awesome there. These aren't just the Dunlop Star Spec's retarded cousin standing in the corner over there. The only thing I can't comment on is tire life on the street.
Last edited by RalliartN; Aug 27, 2014 at 05:22 PM.
Sep 3, 2014, 05:33 AM
#11
RalliartN, to revisit our conversation at Shannonville regarding coilovers, if you are going to continue track days so frequently, and given that you have access to wheel alignment facilities and what not, coil overs may well be worth your while.
Sep 7, 2014, 05:50 AM
#14
Okay, had a Touge event yesterday afternoon. Ran the dd BFG Comp-2's to try to toast them. After one session I said screw it and swapped to the two front Federal RS-R's I brought along just in case. They are so trustworthy I discovered I won't tolerate anything else. Had to be careful of rear end squirreliness after that but wtf. Super glad I've ordered the batch for next year.
Damn you guys are spot on. The LSD is mandatory, wheel-spin is really the weak link, I've got to find a used manual tranny to drop one into. And a trailered-in prepped Civic was turboed and he ran as quick as the Lambo (okay its not a total horsepower track like Mosport but you get the idea) - the RA needs more powa. And those various turd Hondas with big wings drive like go-karts so I need coil-overs too. Guess I'll just take the planks off the garage pit, park over it for the winter, and see what happens. Oh, there's an aluminum flywheel sitting here waiting its turn - would be nice to wind up the engine quicker down the straights.
Thats what this stupid tire thing has done. As fun and controllable as the RA is, I'm finally driving so it is limiting me and not the other way 'round. Kind of like riding in novice on the old RZ350 then being ready to step up to superbike.
Damn you guys are spot on. The LSD is mandatory, wheel-spin is really the weak link, I've got to find a used manual tranny to drop one into. And a trailered-in prepped Civic was turboed and he ran as quick as the Lambo (okay its not a total horsepower track like Mosport but you get the idea) - the RA needs more powa. And those various turd Hondas with big wings drive like go-karts so I need coil-overs too. Guess I'll just take the planks off the garage pit, park over it for the winter, and see what happens. Oh, there's an aluminum flywheel sitting here waiting its turn - would be nice to wind up the engine quicker down the straights.
Thats what this stupid tire thing has done. As fun and controllable as the RA is, I'm finally driving so it is limiting me and not the other way 'round. Kind of like riding in novice on the old RZ350 then being ready to step up to superbike.
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