xi

Car and driver recently did a review between 3 of Michelin's tires and the results were really shocking to me.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...mparison_tests

Between the Pilot Sport A/S (UHP All Season), Pilot Alpin PA3 (Performance Winter), and X-Ice Xi2 (Studless Snow & Ice Winter), the only area where both winter tires performed well were in the snow. Despite what the industry keeps saying about winter tires having softer compound and better grip, the all season tires, even at 23F, did better than both winter tires in the wet and dry.

It would seem like while the Pilot Sport all season tires were more dangerous in snow, the studless winter tire was dangerous in similar amounts in the cold regardless of whether it was wet or dry out.

The other wrench in all of this was the fact that tirerack tested the Continental DWS all-seasons against the Pilot Sport A/S all-seasons and it blew them away. So I took the data and compiled it as percentages of the Pilot Sport A/S's performance. The results are even more surprising. On snow (maybe not on ice), the DWS all-season's seems better than the performance winter tires and almost as good as the studless winter tires. However, wet and dry braking was equal if not better than the Pilot Sport's.

I understand that these were 2 different tests, that's why I tried to put them in terms of percentage against the Pilot Sport A/S tires. Basically, what I'm getting is 2 things.

1. If your winters are mainly snow without much ice, you're much better off with the DWS's.
2. If your winters consist of mainly cold and wet/dry, studless winter tires are actually more dangerous.

mikesim

23F?! that's not even cold! that's barely freezing.

geez someone should re-run the test in colder weather. i know 23F is the most slippery condition (where you can have water and ice together), but try a DWS on dry frozen pavement like 0-10F and compare it to a true winter tire. what you get is the hockey puck effect. winter tires have extremely soft tread compounds for a reason.

xi

Well yeah, since you're in freaking winnipeg.

I have a friend up there and she frequently tells me of days when it's like -20F. But round here in the northeast (and for a lot of other places around the same latitude, our winters fluctuate ~20F give or take 20. Hell we have days in the dead of winter where it'll hit like 50F.

RGRA

The most important factor to keep in mind regarding tires is what geographical area you car will be driven in. These tests kind of prove that, but also brings up the point that there should be more unbiased comparison tests for the car geeks like us out there. I want to see the best all seasons tested against the best winter/snow tires at -20ºf, 0ºf & 20ºf in three separate tests. Like wise, the best all seasons tested against the best summer tires in 60ºf, 80ºf & 100ºf. People need to know what they are sacrificing or gaining with the tires they decide to roll with, and the tests we find out there leave us trying to combine tests like the OP did to make an educated decision. Like mikesim said, I wanna see how the DWS would preform @ 0ºf or even -20ºf. All the DWS tests could give a false sense of security to someone making a trek through the northern frontier, or they could hold their ground, but we really have no idea without test results to compare against other tires in those conditions.

xi

I totally agree. All we can do is make educated guesses at this point unless someone has the resources to go out and test this themselves. The car and driver test exposes certain misleading claims that tire manufacturers make, specifically the one that says that winter tires provide more grip on dry or wet ground below 45 degrees. The test shows that down to 20 degrees, the winter tires on dry and wet ground was as compromised as the all-seasons were on snow. It shows that in those conditions, the winter tires also give a false sense of security.

AcidReflux

Shocking results? I would expect this to be a known fact for anyone that ever had winter tires on their car...

It is true that winter tires sucks on wet warm asphalt. They are made to evacuate/grip snow and ice, not water. Your may even risk aquaplaning in heavy rain, not to mention premature wear if you keep them too long in the spring.

That being said, recommending all-season tires for anyone living north of Albany, NY is retarded. Although you may be fine 75% of the time with all-seasons, it's for the remaining 25% that you are going to be glad to have winter tires and not crap your pants, and your nice Recaros, in a snowstorm or when you get the hockey puck effect on a colder day.

Speaking of which, snow tires are coming on this week-end, and will stay until after Easter!

Mikesim, are winter tires mandatory in Manitoba?

xi

I was pretty surprised at the aquaplaning thing. Shouldn't all those sipes and grooves evacuate water really well?

I'm not recommending people above albany's latitude to use all seasons. It's not the "north of albany" thing that concerns me, it's the fact that tire companies recommend changing over when the temperature is below 45F. I guess for the millions of people who live below albany, they'll be driving around with a tire with dramatically longer stopping distances 99% of the time, which I think is a lot more dangerous considering the snow tires are just as bad in wet as a/s tires are in snow.

chlucero

iTrader: (2)

YAY Texas, I can keep Summer tires on almost all year long!!!!!!!!!!!

xi

boooo! ::nobeer::

Kieffer87

iTrader: (2)

Suprising...but nothing can be worse than the stock Advans in the snow

single94

great info

xi

Umm.. did consumer reports copy my post??

http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...nsumeristlinks

splattj

iTrader: (2)

I think one factor you're overlooking is that the performance of winter tires in the dry/wet is predictably worse whereas hitting ice or getting into snow/slush on summer/all-season tires is much more unpredictable.

Car and Driver's article seems to overwhelmingly favor winter tires for snow regions. If you don't drive long distances and live someplace with well maintained roads, you can certainly do well with all-seasons. Hitting black ice going 60mph on a dark highway will suddenly make the trade-off worthwhile, IMO.

Oh, and the stock Advans pretty much suck in all conditions from what I can tell.

Tpatterson

iTrader: (1)

I certainly wouldn't consider snow tires DANGEROUS in wet conditions. I've driven on snow tires in all conditions tons of times and IMO the trade off that you get for the extra snow traction that 25% of the winter is well worth it. Most people aren't gonna be pushing the car hard in cold wet conditions or in the dry on snow tires anyways, so they'll be perfectly fine for most, and can save lives in those dangerous snowy conditions. IMO all seasons are bad pretty much any time of the year

xi

I guess dangerous is a harsh word. What I'm saying is that every manufacturer and their mother says to switch over tires when it's below 40F because winter tires "perform better" without any qualifications.