You did watch this video about just how much noise the RC6 pads make on the street before installing them, right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL0PnCYrYa8

I'm guessing "No". :-)

 

Fyi:

 

I didn't see the video or really read past the first couple of pages of the thread to be honest. I had my mind set on these a year ago. The noise does suck, but I love the pads performance. We'll see how long I can last until I cave and grab the RC5+.

-Acree

 

I've used RC5+, RC6, and RC6E pads. All of these pads change after you run them through a couple of heat cycles on the track.

Before track use, they tend to have a very high friction coefficient and noisy. I'd guess they would wear the rotor pretty quickly, too. After the track, the friction coefficient is lower (less "grabby") and they are quieter.

 

First, I'm glad the pads are working so well for you!

Keep in mind however that the RC6E is going to be a blend of the RC6 and RC5+ performance. You get bite that is very close to the RC6, with lower noise closer to the RC5+, and longer wear. For those who love the bite of the RC6 and don't want to give it up, my advice would be to run a set of RC6E before jumping to the RC5+. They are more expensive, but they also wear longer and will take more of a beating on the track than the 5+. They may be just what you're after.

 

that is awesome when you have noise You know you have a good pads for real ... LOL

 

Hi Guys,
I wanted to let you know that effective June 1, 2011, prices on all CL Brakes Sintered Racing Brake Pads will increase 5%. Again, this price increase is universal for all four CL compounds, for all applications.

If you've been tracking your car and are running low on pads, please get your order in now to avoid the price increase on your next set of CL's.

Also, if you've been on the fence about trying CL's, now is probably a good time to give them a shot before the price goes up.

You can search by vehicle here.

Evo VIII, IX, and X applications are all available in all compounds.

Thanks.

 

We will be stocking up as well....

 

I wanted provide a quick review of the RC6E pads. I went to the Glen yesterday, my first full blown track day and I wanted to ensure the car stopped. After conducting some research, I settle on these pads.

I have never used track pads so I have nothing to compare them to; however, I can say RC6E always gave me confidence at the Glen. I never faded the pads at all and reached speeds of 110 on the front and back straights.

I do have complaint...I began to suffer from uneven pad transfers during my 3rd session. The steering wheel would shake violently at speeds above 70 when applying the brakes. The rotors had two distinct regions with the inner area, closer to the hub, having more pad material. The outside had the nice and even blue-ish lines, the inside not so much. I will upload phone pics. Why would this happen? I followed to bedding procedure and it didn't happen until after two sessions.

My brake set is as follows:
- RC6E pads all around
- Girodisc one piece directional vane front rotors
- Girodisc stock replacement rears
- Ti shims on the front
- ATE fluid...fresh
- SS lines

All the stuff was brand new. I did not use the stock shims on the front as I thought the Ti shims took their place.

 

Here is my experience with the RC6E pads being used for both front and rear brakes. My car is an all stock IX MR, except for these pads and the 245/45 Dunlop Star Spec tires. I installed the pads at the same time as installing a fresh set of Centric blank rotors on the front. The new Centric blanks were sprayed with brake cleaner and wiped down on installation. The rear rotors are my used stock Brembo (Mitsubishi?) blanks that shipped with the car.

Fresh, the RC6Es measured 8.5mm of pad material for the fronts, and 10mm for the rear. My prior front pads were the normal RC6s and they came with 10.5mm of pad material, so I was a little disappointed with the RC6Es. If they still wear long, I suppose this is a non-issue.

No antisqueal grease was used when I installed the pads. The pads were NOT bedded before my first HPDE session, which turned out to be a mistake.

Street behavior: pads are VERY screechy on the street, particularly once they have warmed up. They present a super firm pedal, and they have good torque when cold, though perhaps not as much as the RC6s did before. The pads seem to be taller than any other I have used so far, and ride on the inside and outside rotor lip that they rear rotors have. The brake dust also seems a bit more sticky than the RC6s, and has mild caking characteristics and is harder to wash off :-(. I drove maybe 300 miles on the pads before my track day.

Laguna Seca Event with 5 sessions, 1h45m
Session 1:
The braking response was much weaker than I expected on the first laps. I had to start braking much earlier than with the RC6s. Then, a few laps in I got pad transfer that caused judder and steering wobble under braking. After the session, I looked at the rotors and all 4 corners showed lots of shmeering pad transfer. I was surprised to see this on the back rotors too!

Following 4 sessions:
Brake judder continued all through the day. It was disconcerting in the 1st and 2nd sessions, then for the 3rd-5th sessions I decided to just ignore it and drive hard anyway. During the beginning of the day the judder felt distributed between both front rotors. By the later sessions the front-right judder cleared up and just front-left judder remained, becoming even more accentuated through the day. When braking for right turns, with slight right turning input, the judder was so strong as to disrupt the balance of the car and upset the suspension. It also shook the steering wheel. On left turns the judder was less intrusive.

The brake pedal was firm through all sessions, and I believe the initial weaker torque improved throughout the day. I would say these pads are good on the track, but not as face-ripping as the RC6s. They still hold their own though, and if it were not for the pad transfer I would be happy with them.

Between sessions, I would let the brakes cool and then try to scrub the rotors with some quick 40mph-5mph stops. These may have helped clear the front right transfer.

After my track day, I inspected the rotors and noticed that the pad transfer only occurred on the outside 50% of the swept rotor area (the area closest to the rotor's outside edge). The inside 50% looks clean! I don't know if this is because the outside area moves faster, or if it is because the OEM shims may have concentrated the braking pressure on the tops of the pads. The front pads have worn down to a taper of 7mm (rotor edge) - 8.25mm (rotor center). (All my pads have worn tapered in the Evo.)

Street behavior post track:
While there is still a goodly amount of pad material on the rotors, the braking is much quieter. I also noticed that the RC6Es are less firm in the pedal after the event. The rear pads have worn away some of the rotor lip I had on the rear rotors. After driving the pads home, some of the screech has returned. The pads still have judder that I can feel at hwy speeds, and can hear at lower speeds. I will try to sand away some of the pad build-up to fix the problem.

Sanding notes:
The rotors have the most pad transfer on the outside face for the front-left corner, the outside face of of the front-right rotor also has transfer. After removing the transferred pad material using 80 grit garnet paper, I can see that the front left rotor has surface heat cracks under the areas of largest pad smear. Interestingly, the back-side of the worst rotor looks fine, has little pad transfer and instead of being darkest on the outer 50% is darkest in the center of the swept area. (Could my caliper be applying pressure unevenly?)

Sears Point Event #1 with 4 sessions, 1h20m

The sanding cleared up the judder from Laguna Seca. I also made sure to bed the pads before the event. The pads performed very well, no fade and no pad transfer. The front pad thickness is now worn in a tapered fashion so that each pad has 6.5mm to 7.5mm of material depending on which edge of the pad I measure. The rear pads have 9.0mm to 9.5mm pad material left.

Sears Point Event #2 - Two Days with 8 sessions, 2h30m

Two very wet days at Sears Point. For more than half of the time, it was actively raining while I was on the track. The brakes performed their braking duties admirably this weekend. I had a super firm pedal at all times, and had good immediate braking torque at all times too. The braking strength was plenty to lock up my wheels in the wet conditions, but I could modulate the brakes too.

I did not have any brake fade or pad transfer, but then again speeds and temps were reduced with the wet weather. The front pads have worn to a tapered 6mm-7mm measurement, and one of the front pads shows evidence of some pad surface shmeerage. The rear pads have between 8mm to 9mm of material.

Then it rained very hard over night between the events, and I had to drive some very dirty roads to get to my lodging. Long story short, the brake dust is severely caked on my wheels. My wheels have turned a dirty rust brown/orange, and are covered in rough, oxidated grit. In the nooks and crannies of my wheels deposits of brake dust and road dirt have accumulated several mm thick! I tried washing the wheels with car wash soap and a wash rag, and was not able to get the brake dust off. I tried a bug and tar remover, and even a clay bar and this stuff is not coming off. I'll have to try a wheel specific cleaner next. It looks like the RC6Es are not easy cleaning after all!

Additionally, the RC6E dust got all over the sides of my car, and also turned rough and rusty, but not so thickly caked. The buildup is particularly noticeable on the ledges were water could sit (like the door frame) and on forward facing surfaces like the leading edge of my door handles. Thankfully, this dust was able to be removed using a clay bar.

Thunderhill Event - 2 Days (well, 1 day with 2 drivers) with 12 sessions, 3h25m

Each driver had 4 dry and 2 damp sessions. I was only able to partially bed the RC6E brakes prior to the event, and I got moderate brake judder after 3 sessions that lasted the rest of the day. 5mm-6mm of pad material remain after this event. Both inside pads have smearage and look overheated.

Willlow Springs (Big Track) Event - 2 Days with 9 sessions, 4h15m

This track is relatively easy on the brakes. I only experienced very minor brake judder, similar to what you would feel with a misbalanced wheel from rubber pickup. After this event I had 4.5mm-5mm left on the pads.

Laguna Seca Event #2 - 1 Day with 4 sessions, 1h20m

Used new Hankook R-S3 tires. I bedded the pads prior to the event. The pads did not have as much bite as I wanted and I overwhelmed them causing braking performance to fade off. I had a few large misses of the apex on turn 2 because the pads would not let me late brake as much as I wanted to. Pads could not max out tire grip. On the bright side, the pads still stop when overwhelmed, but less rapidly. Probably due to the overworking of the pads I got pad transfer again, but it was not as severe as with my last Laguna event. I had to do cool off laps in order to get the pads back. I would not buy the pad again due to lack of bite and resulting pad transfer problems. Once pulled, the pads look rather glazed, center seam is filled. The lip on the rotor is getting rather close to the pad backing, otherwise they probably have one more event in them. The pads measure 3.5mm-4mm remaining.

Summary

The RC6Es are good on the track, without fading issues but with some pad transfer issues if not bedded properly. They have good bite, but lack some of the torque that the RC6s have. My front RC6s had lost 5.5mm of pad material after 2 days at Watkins Glen and 1 day at Laguna Seca. My front RC6Es have lost 2mm of pad material after 1 day at Laguna Seca, 1 day at Sears Point, and 2 more wet days at Sears Point. These may not be perfectly comparable amounts of track exposure, the WGI days would have been more severe than the Sears Point days. Once I wear all the way through the pads, I will post again about the lifespan of the pads.

(10/2012 update) Ultimately, I got 9 days, 875 minutes of use of of the RC6Es. Here is how that wear compares to some other other pads I have used. PFC97s: 6 days, 440 mins. RC6s: 5 days, 505 mins. RC6Es 9 days, 875 mins. DTC-60s 4 days, 490 mins. After trying some other pad options like the DTC-60s and Raybestos ST-43s, I would not go back to the RC6Es as they just don't have the torque I desire for track use. The RC6Es felt underpowered and unable to use the full braking grip of the Hankook R-S3 tires I was using later in the pads' lives. As a result of my frustration with the braking power, I ended up overheating the RC6Es and getting massive pad transfer.

The RC6Es also are perfectly streetable; they bite right way and stop the car right away. However they are VERY loud on the street. Using antisqueel grease quiets them for a few days, but is only a temporary solution.

If you care about the cosmetics of your wheels and paint, you might want to stay away from the RC6Es. The dust from these pads quickly turns to a rusty mess when exposed to moisture and sticks on painted surfaces. I have pretty much given up on ever cleaning my wheels from this dust.

Pictures:

Pad transfer after 1 session:



Pad transfer after 1 event:


Wheel after two wet days of HPDE:

 

anybody has a pedalbox without booster? i would like to hear that feed back. If no one, i will have it after jun 26th

 

subaruwrx420 and 286bhp,
Thanks for all of the detailed feedback. I don't have a clear answer on these pad transfer issues. Up to this point I think we've only had one other person ever have any issue of this sort.

One question I have for both of you...did you both wash your brake discs before they were installed on the car? Brake disc manufacturers always have an anti-rust coating on the discs to keep them free from oxidation while they're sitting on the warehouse shelves and in transit. If they didn't the iron would be a rusty mess. When you get new discs, you should always wash them with dish soap, water, and a rough sponge/pad. What exactly is in that coating depends on the manufacturer, but it can create judder and smearing problems at the pad and disc interface if it isn't removed prior to laying down brake pad material. A smearing of pad material is often seen if a pad material is rapidly taken above its temperature threshold, or if there is some contamination between the disc coating and pad. I've also seen this sort of thing happen with zinc and cad plated discs that were all the rage for a while in the aftermarket.

If you guys both email me some decent pics I can try to assess further details. There are so many factors involved, that it's often tough to pinpoint...I'll do my best to evaluate though.

As for brake dust...remember that these pads are an almost purely metal, full-blown race/track pad. The teams that run WRC generally don't worry about dust and noise, and that's where these pads were developed. While some aftermarket guys like us do use them on the street, they were specifically designed with only pure performance in mind. The upside to the high metal content is the excellent bite at all temps and overall track performance. If you are going to run them on a street car however, you should always try to keep the dust cleaned off as much as possible. Dust on the RC5+ is generally not as heavy as it is on the other compounds I ran them on the street for a while in various conditions without issue on my miata and my vette. I've been running RC6 on my street miata for a while now also (and in the rain), and haven't had any dust/rust issues either. I know a lot of other guys haven't had issues with dust, but they many were on the RC5+, and may have been on the RC6 as well. It may be that the RC6E dust is a little more harsh. I will see if I can find out any info on the specific composition of the RC6E that would make this occur.

Thanks again for the feedback. I'll do what I can to get to the bottom of these pad transfer cases. As I said, we've had almost no feedback of that sort. The reports of judder or vibration have been extremely low compared to other pad compounds/brands I've dealt with and sold in the past.

 

Hi Jeff,

I did not wash/scrub the new rotors before I installed them. I used brake cleaner on the disks and then wiped them down. I then put on a few hundred street miles with the disks and RC6Es before my track day.

The Centric blanks I got were the most basic, without any "added value" coatings on them to make them look pretty or avoid rust, but what you say about them still being coated with something so they don't arrive to the customer as a rusty mess make sense! Regardless, when putting together new RC6Es and new rotors, my personal experience is that some bedding (or perhaps the washing and scuffing you describe) might avoid pad transfer.

Brake dust: I have had PFC97s, RC6s, and RC6Es in my car, and of the three the RC6 dust seemed to be the mildest and the easiest to clean away. With the PFC97s, I also got rusty buildup on the wheels and paint work when I let the dust sit or get wet. With the RC6Es, the amount of the amount of rusty dust was taken to new levels!

I don't hold the dusting characteristics against the RC6E pads as it seems that most track pads produce the same results. It was just that the RC6 dust was so pleasantly easy to remove and I was hoping the RC6E dust would be the same. My goal with my review is to give fair warning to all others considering the RC6Es, so they aren't disappointed when they have to work at cleaning off the brake dust.

 

See post #202 where I posted this pic. Is this what your pad transfer looks like? I don't recall any shaking or judder though.

 

I've been on the fence about trying these, I'm currently using PF01 pads which I love but I would love to have the same performance with more life, as my last set only lasted me 3 track days before needing to be replaced.

how do these compare to the performance friction 01 compound?

My brake setup

PF 2 piece Rotors front
PF01 compound all the way around
NT01/R888/Star spec tires depending on the day