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2020 POTUS Campaign thread

 
Old Apr 30, 2017, 03:05 PM
  #8251  
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Originally Posted by WestSideBilly View Post
Yep, with a bonus of shoveling some money into his pocket.
It would not be out of character if he had figured out some back door way to extract a speaking fee
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Old May 1, 2017, 06:38 AM
  #8252  
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Originally Posted by WestSideBilly View Post


I just wanted to use that to be a dick

The estate tax exists for a single purpose, which is to prevent generational wealth accumulation within families. Unhindered inter-generational wealth accumulation leads to families of people with immense wealth (and, by proxy, immense power) who have no association to the knowledge/effort that was required to create it. In other words, you end up with tons of Betsy DeVoses, Ivanka Trumps, and Rebekah Mercers (not picking on conservative women, as there are plenty of men who fall in the same category, just the first 3 names that came to mind). This was a huge problem throughout history, where the (usually) 3rd generation has massive idle wealth and power and generally abuses the **** out of it.

The double taxation is a red herring. There is constant double taxation. You are taxed on income, and the post-tax income is taxed when you use it on just about everything. If your post tax income buys real property, you are taxed on gains when you sell that property, and your post income-post gains money is taxed again when you use it. If you use your income to start a business, your profits will get taxed, and then your after tax revenue will get taxed again once you distribute it to yourself.

"Double taxation" is a stupid argument, I expect better of you.
I get the purpose of the estate tax, my understanding was not the issue. I said I don't agree with it, it's not effective, and we could easily recoup the losses (~$20 billion annually) through a 5% increase in income tax for the top 5%. How many wealthy families has this prevented from passing on unearned wealth from generation to generation "where the (usually) 3rd generation has massive idle wealth and power and generally abuses the **** out of it"? It simply doesn't work.

The double taxation issue isn't a red herring, and the examples you provided are all false equivalencies. In all those examples, you are purchasing or selling something. This is the transfer of wealth to the person of your choice in the event of your death. It's entirely different.

You're also ignoring the crux of my argument, which is that this is a losing issue. It's used to swing voters who already think there's too much government overreach, and the optics on this one are terrible. Liberals need to learn from 2016 by listening to moderates a little more. There is no high moral ground to attach to this tax, it doesn't work anyway, and it is a PR nightmare used against those who support it.
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Old May 1, 2017, 09:38 AM
  #8253  
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It's weird that you think a tax which affects the 0.2% wealthiest estates is a losing issue for Democrats, or that moderates are particularly relevant.
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Old May 1, 2017, 10:32 AM
  #8254  
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"Moderates" that voted for Trump in this past election aren't really moderates
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Old May 1, 2017, 10:57 AM
  #8255  
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Originally Posted by WestSideBilly View Post
It's weird that you think a tax which affects the 0.2% wealthiest estates is a losing
issue for Democrats, or that moderates are particularly relevant.
It's weird that you think a tax which affects the 0.2% wealthiest estates can't be distorted by the right into a real issue
that the "real" Americans need to be concerned about in their futures, thereby making it an issue at voting time.

That's the problem with 'The American Dream' .... everybody is waiting for the day when they'll be rich, and things like
the estate tax will be a problem for them

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Old May 1, 2017, 11:44 AM
  #8256  
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Originally Posted by mikesevo8 View Post
It's weird that you think a tax which affects the 0.2% wealthiest estates can't be distorted by the right into a real issue
that the "real" Americans need to be concerned about in their futures, thereby making it an issue at voting time.

That's the problem with 'The American Dream' .... everybody is waiting for the day when they'll be rich, and things like
the estate tax will be a problem for them
The GOP has been better at "branding" issues for my entire adult life. Labeling it the death tax was quite effective, as was using the imagery of a family losing their farm when grandpa kicked the bucket. Some day liberals will be better at branding; maybe linking the estate tax to an older person who is widely disliked and maybe has a child who has used that wealth to get access to levers of power that they have no qualification to have... can't think of anyone off the top of my head though.

You indirectly make a good point though. Most people are clueless about the relative scales of wealth. I suspect there are a lot of people who are nowhere close to the threshold who are looking at it and thinking they could lose 40% of it.
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Old May 1, 2017, 11:52 AM
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LOL. Liberals are great at branding. Gun control. "Free" healthcare. "Free" college. LGBTQ (mostly the T part). Gender BS. Islam. "Illegal" immigration. How basically being a white male makes you a terrible person. Should I go on?
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Old May 1, 2017, 11:55 AM
  #8258  
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Originally Posted by Nsomniac View Post
The double taxation issue isn't a red herring, and the examples you provided are all false equivalencies. In all those examples, you are purchasing or selling something. This is the transfer of wealth to the person of your choice in the event of your death. It's entirely different.
I suppose.

However, it is taxed almost identically as the gift tax, which is incurred on the donor when s/he gives large sums of money to someone other than their spouse. There's no association with death, even though it's just transferring the estate before the estate holder dies.

Coincidentally, not a political football.
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Old May 1, 2017, 11:58 AM
  #8259  
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Under our current tax structure, without the estate tax you are privileging inherited income over earned income. Period.

We have an exclusion under the income tax umbrella for gifts and inheritances. That only makes sense when you have the estate/gift tax working together, so that this income doesn't actually escape taxation.

I'm all for meaningful tax reform... but slashing the estate tax under the current system is completely pointless and counterproductive at a time where the wealth gap is near its highest and only continuing to increase.
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
LOL. Liberals are great at branding. Gun control. "Free" healthcare. "Free" college. LGBTQ (mostly the T part). Gender BS. Islam. "Illegal" immigration. How basically being a white male makes you a terrible person. Should I go on?
What the **** are you on about now?

Gun control is exactly as it sounds; legislation intended to control the ownership and use of guns.

Free healthcare means you don't pay out of pocket.

Same for free college.

T means trans. Liberals didn't invent that term.

I have no clue what you mean by "gender BS" but I assume it's something bigoted or at least ignorant as all hell.

Islam is the name of the religion.

Illegal immigration is accurate.

Good to see that Monday has started off with another bizarre rant from you.
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:07 PM
  #8261  
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
LOL. Liberals are great at branding. Gun control. "Free" healthcare. "Free" college. LGBTQ (mostly the T part). Gender BS. Islam. "Illegal" immigration. How basically being a white male makes you a terrible person. Should I go on?


you're such an ignorant POS
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:08 PM
  #8262  
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Originally Posted by ambystom01 View Post
What the **** are you on about now?

Gun control is exactly as it sounds; legislation intended to control the ownership and use of guns.

Free healthcare means you don't pay out of pocket.

Same for free college.

T means trans. Liberals didn't invent that term.

I have no clue what you mean by "gender BS" but I assume it's something bigoted or at least ignorant as all hell.

Islam is the name of the religion.

Illegal immigration is accurate.

Good to see that Monday has started off with another bizarre rant from you.
They've managed to get a large portion of the population to believe gun control works and the 2a doesn't say what it says.


Anything the .gov pays for is not "free".


The thing with trans and gender identity crap becoming a "real" thing. Treating a mental illness as if someone actually is what they "think" they are.


Islam, as in, Islam isn't violent, it's only a small part that is. Even though a large percentage of islam won't publicly denounce Sharia law, or terrorist action.


And the thinking that Illegal Immigration is somehow OK, and enforcing current immigration law is somehow racist or whatever.


Mean while, turning off poeples' brains makes them more open to the leftist ideology. Makes sense.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a6695291.html
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:09 PM
  #8263  
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
LOL. Liberals are great at branding. Gun control. "Free" healthcare. "Free" college. LGBTQ (mostly the T part). Gender BS. Islam. "Illegal" immigration. How basically being a white male makes you a terrible person. Should I go on?
You just listed everything you don't agree with and/or a bunch of random issues. That's not branding.


The GOP has successfully pulled off USA PATRIOT act (wide scale surveillance state that relies on knee-jerk patriotism), Obamacare (tying a generally misunderstood and complicated bill to a president that was disliked by conservatives), death panels (some bureaucrat in DC is going to kill your Granny!), the death tax (being punished for dying! The horrors!), Swift Boating (W was a war hero, Kerry was a fraud), trickle down economics (lulz)... and on and on and on...

The only thing liberals have really branded was Occupy Wall Street, which was a weak attempt to give a name to massive income inequality that accomplished nothing. Democrats have not been able to tie gun control laws to anything since the Brady Bill, despite crazy peoples' repeated attempts. "Free" college and "free" healthcare are ideas that don't gain traction because Democrats generally are terrible at selling their ideas.
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by letsgetthisdone View Post
They've managed to get a large portion of the population to believe gun control works and the 2a doesn't say what it says.
Ah yes, that's certainly not a biased opinion at all. We've been over this; the evidence supports gun control as an effective tool to reduce gun deaths. Whether that is consistent with 2A is another issue, and one that is far from settled given the complex legal factors that need to be taken into account. Nobody has determined, definitively, what 2A means.

Anything the .gov pays for is not "free".
You missed my point. Nobody who gives it any serious thought thinks it is actually free. It's free in the same way the police are free, or roads are free.

The thing with trans and gender identity crap becoming a "real" thing. Treating a mental illness as if someone actually is what they "think" they are.
Congrats on showing your ignorance. We've been over this; the science isn't settled on what transgender feelings even are. Calling it a mental illness is premature and inconsistent with various lines of evidence.

Gender identity is a separate thing, albeit with overlap.

Islam, as in, Islam isn't violent, it's only a small part that is. Even though a large percentage of islam won't publicly denounce Sharia law, or terrorist action.
Only a small part of Islam is violent. That is a fact. A large percentage Islamic do denounce terrorist activities, and do not support Sharia law. Of course this gets ignored by the news sources that want to push the message that Islam is anti-American.

And the thinking that Illegal Immigration is somehow OK, and enforcing current immigration law is somehow racist or whatever.
You're relying on a strawman argument here.

Mean while, turning off poeples' brains makes them more open to the leftist ideology. Makes sense.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...-a6695291.html
What the **** is this even about?

Edit: I read the article. Jesus **** man, you're really showing your ignorance here. They didn't "turn off peoples' brains".

As you, hopefully, know, brains work through electrical impulses. Magnetic fields impact electrical fields. What they effectively did was use magnets to impact specific parts of the brain. Here, they temporarily shut down the posterior medial front cortex, associated with responding to threats, and noticed a response.

You're reading far too much into the study.

It's also worth pointing out that Conservative views are associated with decreased education and intelligence, at least if you want to rely on a study posted in a newspaper.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/...article543361/

Last edited by ambystom01; May 1, 2017 at 12:24 PM.
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Old May 1, 2017, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by WestSideBilly View Post
You just listed everything you don't agree with and/or a bunch of random issues. That's not branding.


The GOP has successfully pulled off USA PATRIOT act (wide scale surveillance state that relies on knee-jerk patriotism), Obamacare (tying a generally misunderstood and complicated bill to a president that was disliked by conservatives), death panels (some bureaucrat in DC is going to kill your Granny!), the death tax (being punished for dying! The horrors!), Swift Boating (W was a war hero, Kerry was a fraud), trickle down economics (lulz)... and on and on and on...

The only thing liberals have really branded was Occupy Wall Street, which was a weak attempt to give a name to massive income inequality that accomplished nothing. Democrats have not been able to tie gun control laws to anything since the Brady Bill, despite crazy peoples' repeated attempts. "Free" college and "free" healthcare are ideas that don't gain traction because Democrats generally are terrible at selling their ideas.
Don't forget the laughable "pro-life" that should actually be called "pro-birth".
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