High Fuel Consumption 88840013 modified ECU
 

Hi guys,

I need your help with one problem that I encounter about the car fuel consumption which is extremely high (around 9,25 gallon:1 in urban areas with no excessive driving and around 3,96 gallon:1 out of town, with the average speed of 87 miles/h).

Please tell me if this can happend because some wrong modifications of the ECU or because some bad misunderstanding of the mods installed on the car.

Thank you for your time reading this and I will be grateful to all of you for helping me with this.

Take care

That's gonna take a while to digest.

The issue is a combo of the first and last items in the quote above.

You suggest to give up the EIDS or to try to set up it again more accurate?I realy think that something inside the settings of the ECU is the problem.I send my map to somebody over here which deals with the settings of the cars and he said that my setup is very poor inside my ECU. My boost offset is increased with 0,2 bar and the limit pressure is also increased from 1,45 (1,2 bar) to 1.60 (1.4 bar).This is the only changed settings that he found inside my map.The rest of the map is stock.

could be incorrectly wired eids or o2 sensor issue , get it mapped properly too.

use evoscan log the fr o2 sensor it should read between 0.1 and 0.9 volts up and down continuously.

Hi Todd,

I will do this and I will reply back to you

Thanks for your suport man!!

Take care!

I've been active in the german evo-community for like 4 years now and I don't think I've ever heard Gatmo Motorsport mentioned in regards to anything evo-related...

What led you to them to begin with?

I'm not saying they don't know what they're doing, I'm sure they are professional... Just seems that going for a mail-in flash couldn't ever come close to either tuning yourself or physically visiting a tuner to get work done...

Hallo "germanracing",

I understand your point of view and you are right. It was my mistake that I present the problem like this because after reading this thred, everyone can understand that Gaetmo keep the blame for my problem. Not at all. I apologize for this and I want to say few things about this. I complete this in order to clear my mistake for people who knows who and what Gaetmo is doing in this field.

I hope I will be able to find and to fix my problem soon with somebody`s help.

Have a geat Day!

Isn't there a forum rule about posting vendor maps, or even images of them?

I do hope you sort it out though. I dont want to be the party pooper! :-)

Hi Martin,


If I did something wrong by posting those pictures please tell me.

I made it today from my ROM witch is something modified but not from a vendor maps I think.

I don`t want to do something that can bring repercussions to this forum.

As far I know my modified maps are not under copyright but you know better than me.

Hi Martin,

I delete the pictures

If someone will want to help me it will help without any pictures added.

Thanks

you got pm

If you made the map yourself then there is no problem at all, you just gave the impression that they were from the tuner.

I understant.....

Have a Good Day Martjin!!!!

then it isnt the maps its a sensor fault , did you log fr o2

Hi Todd.

I must buy the LM1 cable in order to do what you said or I cand read the values only with the cable that I have?

Tell me about the cable that I must use to read that O2 sensor......

Hi Todd,

I will make test write to ECU and Compare to ECU in order to be sure that everything will be ok.

About the O2 sensor read I will try after I will flash the map.

Take care

hi m8 yes test write first then write to ecu. just replied to your e-mail too {thumbup}

log with evoscan using the tactrix cable

a bit off tpoic
Hi there, just to clear some things Gaetmo Motorsport is Peter Gartner's company.
Who is Peter Gartner? This guy is the former chief engineer at TTE( Toyota Team Europe) WRC engine departement( also worked in F1, formula Ford and so on..). This guy invented ALS and LC as we know them today and he is the man when you want a ECU for gr.N4 rally EVO's. His only true competitor is Klaus Schwemmin from EMD also a fellow german engineer.
They both make their own ECU and maps( if you could see their RD departments). They use they own firmware on the ecu's. Just to have an ideea a Gaetmo ECU with maps in it (it has 4 switchable, and 2 levels of ALS) is around 6000EUR close to 8000USD(if you add some other options it goes even higher).
So what i'm asking you ? are you shure you send your ECU to Gaetmo or you jus took it to Racing Nick and he "sent it to Gaetmo"? Because althrough he is german the shop is in in Hatten, France.
How do i know al this? i actually run a Gaetmo ECU on my own EVO Gr.N4 rally car and been to his shop .
Wish you all the best to solve your problem
gaetmo car from you country, listen to the engine and you'll see what i mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EDY2x5MZAY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZt6...eature=related

Salut,

I think I explain very clear into this thread that i don`t point nobody.....but since the results with that map were very poor in in terms of fuel consumption,allow me to be a little suspicious about so called my tuned map.This is something that I will not know 100% if the map was realy by him or not. The reality is that seems that that map was done by him or after his style of street car tune.I studie that map and I can say that seems similar with some other maps that I`ve seen it tuned by him.

I know who and what gaetmo is doing in this field....so let`s not make free advertising for him now because I don`t think that this is the subject of this thread. It is a realy big difference between rally cars that is preparring and a poor rom setup of the ECU.

I studie that map and I can say that seems similar with the maps tuned by him or after his style....anyway. Never compare a "email tune" with this way of tune a car without actually see it or evan to see some datalogs after a new setup. This is a way to buried very fast your car .The results can be good at the beginning but it will not will not resist for long time.

Anyway.......my opinion is that nobody will achieve good results by tune their cars without evan seeing some datalogs after a new setup. My feeling is that this is not a way of tune a car.

I`m not the type of "evo car owner" who cry every time when is driving his car downtown because of the fuel consumption , but since I had moments when my fuel consmption became 35% , definetly I start to think that something is not right.

Fuel consumption is not made only by the map setup. It can be related to many factors such as:

-front O2 sensor
-type of gasoline (leaner fuel will burn quicker than richer fuel)
-lean air/fuel mixtures (cause plug tip and cylinder temperature to increase, resulting in pre-ignition, detonation, and possibly serious engine damages)
-ignition system is not in proper condition
- spark plugs
-ignition timing (related to map setup)
-engine in not proper mechanical condition (compression , basic adjustment of valves or engine oil pressure)
-incorrect fuel pressure
-incorrect valves of the quantity of fuel delivered by the injection

etc etc......

PS: I use very often the way Bucharest Cluj (440 km)...and with my older map......in normal driving (max 3200 RPM or max 140 km/h) after 240 km my tank was empty.So this is 20% fuel consumption.

I was able to make with my actual map........ in the same driving style 413 km with 45.40 litres of gasoline....so the consumption was 10,9%....witch I think is very good for an outside driving value.

There are some good maps throug mail, but it is very true that you can't do a proper map without a dyno and data logging, especially o a car with moods, no stock componets, so have you solved the problem? did you try to make some logs from you ECU and some logs with something similar to LMA3 ,lc1 Logworks directlly form the car not throug car ECU(because you need high speed sensors and raw data from the engine) and send them to gatmo so that they could do some changes?
from the way you described the power band it is definitely some copy of parameters used in gr.N cars but people tend to forget that those run on 32-34 mm restrictors which changes everything in therms of flow and VE and this power band is also related to the gearing ratios of the car, especially for JDM and some EDM models which are run on rallyes , and are very different from the USDM models, and that is why they have that strong middle power band which tappers at high revs because the flow is restricted throug restrictor and you dont use revs above 6000rpm
so is just a matter of what you want do do with your car, if you want to use it for drag and still use gaetmo maps than you sholud ask for settings similar to the cars they run in hill climb.
my N4 car goes up to 70l/100km on the stage and 25 in betwen.
if you want a fast car on the road and on corners stick to a setting similar to what you recieved and just tackle with them little
what are you moods ?

Definelty I don`t have the ECU that you have on your Gruppe N Rally Cars.

Now I have a OEM 88840017 ECU with some personal changes.I chose to change that map with another version of map. I switch from 88840013 USDM (modified) id to 88840017 EDM.

Still some things are not clear into my head about the differeneces between those 2 versions of the the map since my previous map was USDM version and actual map is EDM version.

And not RacingNick send the ECU to Hatten.Somebody else.....no matter who...;)

I have a good friend in the same tournament with you...... so I ask for his help in order to send my ECU back to Gaetmo. He went last year to Hatten with some personal things with Mr Peter. Mr Peter is a very busy man and his request was that I must wait until he will be in Romania for some settings to your cars for gravel session and at that time maybe with some luck, he will check also my car.

This never happend since I was not able to track him when he was here so I give up with this idea of solving my issue.

At this moment I can say that I solve my problem. But since I achieve a less fuel consumption than before with no much power loss I say that I`m good for now.I will go on anyway with my setup but trying to keep safe.

My issue was not related to that map. My problem was that the settings in that map were made before the changes and not after. I just want to increase the car performance in direct connection with the mods that I have at this moment.

:thumbup:

Glad you generally solved the problem, what you said clear things about first map. USDM model has so many diffrences in hardware and software to many to tell, and is designed for usdm turbo, and piping.
If you don't plan to go beyond 400hp ( beyond which stock turbo is prone to failure fast)and still keep driveability stick to oem inlet and airbox with ralliart tarmac filter, because the whole admision uses resonace and the MAF is Karman vortex type (frequency ) and is very prone to false reading if you use a cold air intake because of the turbulence it generates especially with the filter you use( hope you did not remove the screen from MAF), also i recomend you the RA571519S3, RA571592S1, RA188657S3,RAR7376N9P and a smaller exhaust.

In stock trim the MAF can flow very good values for a stock car but not if any modifications are performed.

I think I must reach somewhere over 500 cfm with the stock MAF. Ok..... I agree with you that the intake and the filter can be a problem but also the boost is important too.

I think at idle my MAF sensor must read between 25-31hz with my air filter and my actual pipe kit.

As far that I know, MAF sensor in Evo 9 use it is actually 3 separate sensors that output signals to the ECU allowing the measure of mass airflow enter into the engine. The main output is a frequency signal that is proportional to the air flow velocity through the sensor. The second is a pressure sensor and the 3rd is a temperature sensor. Since the physical configuration of the MAF is known we have everything necessary to calculate the volume and the mass flowrate of the inlet air so the only thing is to setup your ECU properly after you make this calculations.

On a stock car OEM MAF sensor is attached to the air filter assembly directly. So the airflow value is determined before the air is pressurized by the turbo and any air leaks in the piping between the MAF and the throttle-body will change the airflow reading. A leak before the turbo will result in the ECU getting a smaller airflow reading than normal or a leak after turbo will result in the ECU larger airflow readings.

OEM ECU can allow a fine tune of MAF in correlation with a proper setup of boost correction.

I will say something also about the parts that I had in mind to change related to your recommendations:

-about intake : HKS Super Mega Flow(mushroom) kit
-spark plugs : Ngk Laser Iridium or Iridium IX but still I`m ne car will perform better with such colder spark plugs
-sport Intercooler pipe kit and sport air suction pipe kit : autobahn88

Realy since ralliart start to make the parts in China I no longer trust their qualities.

But maybe you have another provider since you use them on your car....

For me it`s a little bit difficult to be sure about the parts that I want to buy.

I still believe that my problem was the rear O2 sensor. I will check it soon. Also I believe that after I will have all the tools that I need including the parts that we speak......I will be able to make a proper setup. I hope.....anyway. Until then......I just play on the car.....and spend to much time on it.

But in the "Scienece Name" I will continue......

Anyway......it was a real pleasure "chatting" with you.....

Take care