First tune with the ECUFlash app..
May 20, 2006, 05:43 AM
#1
First tune with the ECUFlash app..
Hey guys, just finished a first full tune on my car..
First I might add, I ran out of injector (stock injectors and pump at the moment) so I couldn't get any final numbers.. But this was using a Belltronix FX2 performance computer..
I had to run a max of 21psi and still ran out of injector and had some spark blowout at higher boost rates..
My car's mods is basically a TBE, Intercooler Pipes, Blowthrough MAF, 280 cams, intake, overall the car is mostly stock.. The gain from stock cams to 280's (untuned) was about 25whp, 25tq, gains from that level, a WHOPPING 80 Horsepower! Probably quite a bit more if I could run more boost (I do run my car lean with fairly aggressive timing on pump, which is why I will not post my tune, plus the map is different because of the blowthrough meter).. This is the first time I ran out of injector on a tune, the cams move significantly more air.. Keep in mind with the UTEC and a tune, at 25psi with the stock cams and running good gas and very lean, I've run an 11.63@117 (on A GTechPro), the HP levels are nearly the same at lower boost.. Drivability with using the reflash is much better, and getting a good quality idle was easier with the reflash than it was to get using only the blowthrough MAF adjustment. Using my ET and trap speed (since the numbers on a street dyno really don't apply) It was approximately an 11.67@116mpg calculates to just over 400whp.. This was at just about 21psi! The cams made a huge difference and this was without the help of the UTEC
I don't tune on a dyno because its pointless to brag about dyno numbers..
First I might add, I ran out of injector (stock injectors and pump at the moment) so I couldn't get any final numbers.. But this was using a Belltronix FX2 performance computer..
I had to run a max of 21psi and still ran out of injector and had some spark blowout at higher boost rates..
My car's mods is basically a TBE, Intercooler Pipes, Blowthrough MAF, 280 cams, intake, overall the car is mostly stock.. The gain from stock cams to 280's (untuned) was about 25whp, 25tq, gains from that level, a WHOPPING 80 Horsepower! Probably quite a bit more if I could run more boost (I do run my car lean with fairly aggressive timing on pump, which is why I will not post my tune, plus the map is different because of the blowthrough meter).. This is the first time I ran out of injector on a tune, the cams move significantly more air.. Keep in mind with the UTEC and a tune, at 25psi with the stock cams and running good gas and very lean, I've run an 11.63@117 (on A GTechPro), the HP levels are nearly the same at lower boost.. Drivability with using the reflash is much better, and getting a good quality idle was easier with the reflash than it was to get using only the blowthrough MAF adjustment. Using my ET and trap speed (since the numbers on a street dyno really don't apply) It was approximately an 11.67@116mpg calculates to just over 400whp.. This was at just about 21psi! The cams made a huge difference and this was without the help of the UTEC
I don't tune on a dyno because its pointless to brag about dyno numbers..
May 20, 2006, 06:25 AM
#4
i also run aggressive timing Malibu, you know that hee he...
good to see you making it work...
i wont be able to experiment with mine until the 2.3 is ready to go in, i refuse to tinker on a customer car, until ive proven platforms on my own.
nice to see you on top of it already
cheers
cb
good to see you making it work...
i wont be able to experiment with mine until the 2.3 is ready to go in, i refuse to tinker on a customer car, until ive proven platforms on my own.
nice to see you on top of it already
cheers
cb
May 20, 2006, 06:26 AM
#5
FWIW I'm not making huge ET gains as I add more mods.. Partly because I don't want to launch or shift my car in an abusive manner on a regular basis, and because I am running out of RPM in 4th gear and on occasion bounced off the rev limiter..
I do run a 245-40-18 tire which is about 1/2" taller than stock, surprisingly that (or using tires that grow in diameter) will help trap speeds..
I do run a 245-40-18 tire which is about 1/2" taller than stock, surprisingly that (or using tires that grow in diameter) will help trap speeds..
Last edited by MalibuJack; May 20, 2006 at 06:28 AM.
May 20, 2006, 06:28 AM
#7
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Those are great results. You need to get a fuel pump now and crank up the boost...
why don't you post the map? isn't the whole point of this forum to share information.
why don't you post the map? isn't the whole point of this forum to share information.
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May 20, 2006, 06:33 AM
#8
Originally Posted by AlwaysinBoost
Those are great results. You need to get a fuel pump now and crank up the boost...
why don't you post the map? isn't the whole point of this forum to share information.
why don't you post the map? isn't the whole point of this forum to share information.
You have to understand I have this stuff going into the car in the next 2 weeks..
Magnus Intake Manifold, Ported throttlebody, GT35r Turbo, 1000cc injectors, ECU+, Apexi AVC-R (to replace my MBC which replaced a broken GM Solenoid, the MBC was the primary reason I had trouble with tuning, I would get a significant spike in boost and wheelspin as a result) If I can figure out the ECUs boost maps I'll actually start playing with boost targets in the stock ECU and go back to a GM solenoid.
but for me to spend significantly more time, etc.. I'd have to pick up over 100 whp if I want to break a into the 10's.. For me to bolt on everything just to break a 10 on the stock turbo is kinda pointless.. Plus I'd be playing games with different fuels and I want to stick to mostly pump gas..
May 20, 2006, 06:55 AM
#9
BTW.. this occurred to me before and is pretty important..
Before you start playing with other peoples maps.. you need to verify their mods first.. SPECIFICALLY
1) Size injectors (and check the injector sizing parameter, since it affects the fueling)
2) Ignition upgrades (A good ignition upgrade can affect your timing by as much as 2 degrees in the top end! Sometimes even more)
3) Type of plugs, yes this does actually matter..
4) Cams, This affects the volumetric efficiency of the engine, and the maps will be biased accordingly.
5) Boost level.. Well, DUHH!
Also, what fuel type, etc.. but those are the obvious ones..
NEVER EVER EVER write a map directly to your ECU..
1) Your ECU may be a different varient and there could be differences
2) You may forget and overwrite your Immobilizer code.. That would suck..
3) EVERY MAP you will see, I can guarantee will not work properly on your car.. Every mod has a slightly different affect on your fuel and timing curve in different locations.. Even the same mod from different manufacturers will have a different effect (sometimes slight, sometimes significant)
Maps really are only to be used as guidelines.. Even safe "Generic" maps can be dangerous with certain mods (Different intakes cause the car to run leaner, but by altering the airflow pattern (maf reading) and can upset where in the map you end up.. generic maps generally lean things out a bit too..)
Before you start playing with other peoples maps.. you need to verify their mods first.. SPECIFICALLY
1) Size injectors (and check the injector sizing parameter, since it affects the fueling)
2) Ignition upgrades (A good ignition upgrade can affect your timing by as much as 2 degrees in the top end! Sometimes even more)
3) Type of plugs, yes this does actually matter..
4) Cams, This affects the volumetric efficiency of the engine, and the maps will be biased accordingly.
5) Boost level.. Well, DUHH!
Also, what fuel type, etc.. but those are the obvious ones..
NEVER EVER EVER write a map directly to your ECU..
1) Your ECU may be a different varient and there could be differences
2) You may forget and overwrite your Immobilizer code.. That would suck..
3) EVERY MAP you will see, I can guarantee will not work properly on your car.. Every mod has a slightly different affect on your fuel and timing curve in different locations.. Even the same mod from different manufacturers will have a different effect (sometimes slight, sometimes significant)
Maps really are only to be used as guidelines.. Even safe "Generic" maps can be dangerous with certain mods (Different intakes cause the car to run leaner, but by altering the airflow pattern (maf reading) and can upset where in the map you end up.. generic maps generally lean things out a bit too..)
May 20, 2006, 05:48 PM
#10
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I am just finished tuning the AFR now with a very conservative timing. So it's time to tune the ignition timing now...
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
May 20, 2006, 05:56 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by BJai02
I am just finished tuning the AFR now with a very conservative timing. So it's time to tune the ignition timing now...
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
I would tend to think that option one where you set your high octane ignition maps as the target and detune the low octane maps would make the most sense. Im sure others will have different opinions- you raise a good question.
May 20, 2006, 06:24 PM
#12
Originally Posted by BJai02
I am just finished tuning the AFR now with a very conservative timing. So it's time to tune the ignition timing now...
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
I am thinking what is the best way to tune the two igniton map now. Being used to tuning with UTEC, working with 2 timing table is very different. I can think of 3 different approach to it:
1) Using the High Octane Timing Map for the "target ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the Low Octane Timing Map with 3 degrees less timing across the board.
2) Similar to Option 1, but using the Low Octane Timing Map for the "taget ignition timing" that I want to run, then set the High Octane Timing Map with about 3 degrees more timing across the board.
3) Set the High Octane Timing Map with 5 degrees more than my target value, and set the Low Octane Timing Table with 5 degrees less than my target value.
But the Option 3 will only work if the ECU will switch between two maps with different load site. If not, it is very likely that the car will be always on Low Octane Ignition Map.
What do you guys think?
I'm using "Option 1" Only I have a flat map right now for testing.. Which is one of the reasons I don't want to post it.
May 20, 2006, 06:47 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by MalibuJack
I'm using "Option 1" Only I have a flat map right now for testing.. Which is one of the reasons I don't want to post it.
Jack, id really like to take a look at what you've done so far.
May 20, 2006, 06:53 PM
#14
I'll post something in a few days.. I really want to spend some time figuring out why my car is breaking up under boost (Was doing it before the retune too) I swapped plugs, upgraded the fuel pump, left the injectors, raised the Boost cut settings to 300 across the board, and leaned out my fuel curve to around 12.0 (like I said, its uncomfortably lean for some.. gas in my area has 10% ethanol in the premium and it seems to help prevent knock) I've tried over 25 degrees of timing and not had any issues, but I backed off to 21-22 degrees to be certain the issue I'm having is not related.. I also dropped my boost to 20psi from 21/22...
