Starting to tune.. logs and such inside
Jun 23, 2006, 11:06 AM
#17
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I've had a few people say that... I'm still a noob at this stuff but I'm a fast learner. I wouldnt feel comfortable starting from scratch thats for sure.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:08 AM
#18
Originally Posted by jcsbanks
Your maps have been done by an experienced tuner, but to my eyes (experienced Subaru tuner and dabbling on the Evo) they look plain weird.
Usually with RPM and load you expect smooth changes from cell to cell generally running in a predictable direction. As it is your fuel map especially is full of peaks and troughs and makes little sense to my simple brain.
Personally I'd like to adjust MAF and injector scalings to get values in the fuel map that reflect approximately to wideband O2 readings (I used to do this even when ditching the MAF sensor and using my MAF simulator box and with larger capacity engines, different heads/cams, much larger injectors). Then I would think of a 3x3 fuel table with smooth transitions in between:
RPM vac atmo boost
1000 14.7 14.7 14.7
4000 14.7 14 11.5
7000 12.5 12 11.5
Also on the ignition tables, why does it not change for load? That has to be suboptimal to my mind because you don't need the same timing at 140 and 260% load? If it doesn't det at 260% then you are surely too retarded at 140%?
No disrespect intended, but am I missing some key point here?
Usually with RPM and load you expect smooth changes from cell to cell generally running in a predictable direction. As it is your fuel map especially is full of peaks and troughs and makes little sense to my simple brain.
Personally I'd like to adjust MAF and injector scalings to get values in the fuel map that reflect approximately to wideband O2 readings (I used to do this even when ditching the MAF sensor and using my MAF simulator box and with larger capacity engines, different heads/cams, much larger injectors). Then I would think of a 3x3 fuel table with smooth transitions in between:
RPM vac atmo boost
1000 14.7 14.7 14.7
4000 14.7 14 11.5
7000 12.5 12 11.5
Also on the ignition tables, why does it not change for load? That has to be suboptimal to my mind because you don't need the same timing at 140 and 260% load? If it doesn't det at 260% then you are surely too retarded at 140%?
No disrespect intended, but am I missing some key point here?
It is good for the community that nothing can slide by the consumer any longer with this new tool. Its no longer a mystery as to what was changed in your ECU and if the tuner knew what they were doing or not when programming your "baby's" engine computer.
Personally I am not a big fan of the locked ignition timing throughout the load range either jcsbanks. The ignition timing is not "locked" like that from the factory.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:13 AM
#19
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Agreed. I love being able to change things myself... and now that I have all the proper logging equipment I'm really excited.
I thought there was a reason behind how it was tuned but i'm starting to become unsure of that now :|
Not sure if I listed but I am running 780cc injectors.
I thought there was a reason behind how it was tuned but i'm starting to become unsure of that now :|
Not sure if I listed but I am running 780cc injectors.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:15 AM
#20
Originally Posted by justchil
Agreed. I love being able to change things myself... and now that I have all the proper logging equipment I'm really excited.
I thought there was a reason behind how it was tuned but i'm starting to become unsure of that now :|
Not sure if I listed but I am running 780cc injectors.
I thought there was a reason behind how it was tuned but i'm starting to become unsure of that now :|
Not sure if I listed but I am running 780cc injectors.
Check your injector scaling and injector voltage latency figures and let us know what they say.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:28 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Saw that.
Check your injector scaling and injector voltage latency figures and let us know what they say.
Check your injector scaling and injector voltage latency figures and let us know what they say.
that leads me to believe that the tuner just leaned it out to compensate.
my maps read 9.8 at 260 and 7500 rpm and is at 11.5 actual this is with 1000cc injectors scaled to 890ccs
the value inputed is just a numerical value. i've been on the dyno for about 12 hours teying to figure out a conversion and there isn't one even on stock cars.
a value of 11.5 is acually closer to 12.3 stock injectors with a walbrow 255
Jun 23, 2006, 11:32 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by TTP Engineering
Saw that.
Check your injector scaling and injector voltage latency figures and let us know what they say.
Check your injector scaling and injector voltage latency figures and let us know what they say.
I can understand the need for an adjustment in injector scaling...
But what would the voltage latency figures have to do with this....unless of course his injectors are pulling so much voltage that it would need a compensation for that. If that was the case I think you have a mechanical issue and not a tuning issue.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:36 AM
#24
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The faster you spin the motor the alternator is going to produce more more current, it should be used because of the increased draw from the fuel pump, coils, and injectors but residual voltage can cause them to spike.
Ultimatly the injectors are tested at 3bar fuel pressure and 12 volts anything higher will cause them to "flow more"
Ultimatly the injectors are tested at 3bar fuel pressure and 12 volts anything higher will cause them to "flow more"
Jun 23, 2006, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by justchil
I know the scaling is identical to stock... I didnt compare the latency but here is both:
thats why your in the 13.x afr valut to be at 11.0
set the scaling to 720 and lower your values by a minimum of 3 full points. go do a run log it and post it, keep an eye on your wideband if you get anyhigher than 11.5 stop and add .2 more fuel and try again.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:40 AM
#26
Originally Posted by Dieman
I can understand the need for an adjustment in injector scaling...
But what would the voltage latency figures have to do with this....unless of course his injectors are pulling so much voltage that it would need a compensation for that. If that was the case I think you have a mechanical issue and not a tuning issue.
But what would the voltage latency figures have to do with this....unless of course his injectors are pulling so much voltage that it would need a compensation for that. If that was the case I think you have a mechanical issue and not a tuning issue.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:42 AM
#27
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I'll give that a try. Unfortunately I left my laptops at home today so I'll have to give this a shot here in about 2 hours.
So your saying lower my fuel map TOTALLY by 3 points correct?
I really appreciate the help guys! If you're ever in WV (doubtful) I'll buy you a beer or three.
So your saying lower my fuel map TOTALLY by 3 points correct?
I really appreciate the help guys! If you're ever in WV (doubtful) I'll buy you a beer or three.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:48 AM
#28
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CHECK YOUR PM'S, THE ONLY THING KEEPING YOU FROM BLOWING YOUR MOTOR IS YOUR 11.0 AFR.
Yes the Caps are necissary.
You should be in the 9.7-10.0 in the midrange and 10.5 to11.1 from 7000 rpm on.
Yes the Caps are necissary.
You should be in the 9.7-10.0 in the midrange and 10.5 to11.1 from 7000 rpm on.
Jun 23, 2006, 11:54 AM
#29
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You mean my AFR's or the map itself? I'm assuming this would be AFTER I change the injector scaling. I'm understanding most of what you say.. just trying to figure out how I can start the ball rolling on getting things fixed up 
1 more hour of work and I can start on this
1 more hour of work and I can start on this